Official Mitsubishi WD XX833 Owners Thread - Page 60

What will the 120 Hz do for me?

Thanks


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I haven't got myself into a showroom yet to see the "120 hz" effect. Just wondering what current owners see once they get there set home to have a good look......

Since I am not a gamer, my main question is " Does 120 hz eliminate motion blur in fast action sports, such as football, basketball, ect.....? "

Thanks in advance for everyones opinion................

Heres my honest opinion. I see zero differnece with 120hz on or off with any source and this also includes gaming with my xbox 360. I also had my set professionally calibrated and with certain test pattrns you can see that turning 120hz on adds artifacts to the picture. The only thing i will personally use 120hz for is if i get a hd-dvd player capable of 24p.

Mike

Mike-

I got ahold of Gregg, but he won't be back in NJ for awhile. Do you see a major improvement in your set after calibration? Is the picture much different and/or does it take some getting used to? I can't wait to get mine done now.

My picture was good before the calibration and is now great. I wouldnt call it night and day better but definately improved. Better black details, whites are now totally white and colors pop more. Worth every penny but i wouldnt expect a night and day difference.

Mike

Maybe I'm missing something - if you have a DVR with its own 2-week TV schedule, is there any need for the Mits Onscreen TV Guide?

If you watch OTA (mostly for HD since it's better OTA than sat/cable.)

I just got a WD-65833 today and the picture is worse than my old 65" CRT-RP Mits from >5 years ago. On both the Component and HDMI inputs the picture has a crosshatch like pattern most visible in bright areas. I've been going through adjusting the image. Out of the box playing Planet Earth on HD-DVD from an Xbox 360 attached via HDMI, the picture was absolutely terrible (extreme distoration in white areas with black noise). It was much better after changing the picture from Brilliant to Natural. I turned off the sharp lines, noise reduction, lowered sharpness, adjusted contrast and brightness, but the picture still appears dirty, almost as if there's apattern on the screen like you're projecting an image into a textured wall.

Is this normal for this set? I have a 42" Samsung DLP that I don't see this on, so I don't think it's the DLP artifacts that I've never seen before.

I'm assuming you've tried other basic troubleshooting like hooking the 360 up to other inputs and trying other HDMI cables. My 360 did the same thing when I set up my 73833 but replacing the cable fixed it. Hope you get it resolved.

P

I haven't noticed a difference either (not even on videogames) and a technician was telling me a few weeks ago that in order to apply 120hz that the Mits actually has to break down a 1080p signal into 1080i for processing or something like that. I just leave it off.

P

So, let's see, we're paying several hundred dollars more for the 833, for which we get the high gloss finish, illuminated remote, blue light, TV Guide, split screen, IEEE, RS-232, 3D-ready screen, and 120hz. A fairly long list containing not much...

I can offer this comment. I have a 73833 and I see possibly a small improvement watching sports. However, I was having my set calibrated (Doug Weil referred to by LionAV) last night and with certain test patterns, turning 120hz off made the lines more sharp and clear. It was easy to reproduce. I left it off after seeing that.

I also found that on the test pattern with single pixel lines at 1920 res gave a bizzare pattern. It reminded me of the look when you put an unshielded speaker next to an older crt. Doug told me something weird was going on and it may have a problem processing at highest resolution. I cannot see anything bad when watching full rez content like HD-DVD. Any thoughts on this???

A question: Which has the better video processor, the Denon AVR-3808ci or the Mitsu WD73833?

well now I just turned my 120hz OFF. I'm also watching HD-DVD's at 1080i, (on a Toshiba A30, the A3 would have done the same thing) since (believe it or not), the picture looks better than 1080p or even 1080p/24. So I guess I paid an extra $1,000 for the high gloss cabinet, and the ability to POSSIBLY view 3D content in the future. Not to mention $400 for the HD-DVD player when the $200 model would have done just fine. Go figure- people de-activating or not using the advanced technology features available because it actually worsens the picture......what's next? should we be watching this set with an s-video cable over HDMI?? (just kidding- but nonetheless a little disappointed)

You needed to read up on it a bit willie. Every professional report I've read on 120hz, has stated that it's better to turn it off for movie and TV watching (sound&vision, home theater magazine, etc.).

It makes a difference in gaming.

If you bought the set because of 120hz and you're not a gamer, then you didn't do enough research.

Gregg Loewen the president of lionav did my set last week and said the same thing about the resolution pattern. He said the set does not do 1:1 pixel mapping and was concerned about the lack of resolution.

Mike

Sent you a pm.

Mike

For those who may be considering purchasing the Mits at Costco -

I just spoke with the American Express Buyer's Assurance dept at 800-225-3750. As with most credit cards, Amex will double the original mfg warranty, up to one additional year. Since Costco extends the mfg warranty on televisions to 2 years, Amex will provide a third year of warranty coverage, but ONLY for those who made the purchase with a Costco Amex card. This is a business policy decision made by Amex, not part of their normal Buyer's Assurance plan, so you normally wouldn't have anything in writing confirming this additional coverage. They're checking to see if someone can send me this policy in writing.

Gregg did my original Mits and I was really happy with the results. Not happy to hear it might not be a defect in this one. Doug seemed to think it was in their signal processing so possibly a firmware update may resolve. I'm going to have to think about what I am going to do. If it can't be resolved, I may have to return it.

I'll post any follow up and would appreciate others experiencing the problem chiming in.

Can you post what you did to fix this issue ? I'm having the same problem and cont seem to figure it out

J

no, not a game player. But I was told 120 was much better for watching sports. I love football. But i don't feel like turning it off/on every time a football game ends and the wife wants to watch a movie. I find it hard to believe 120 hz was put into sets just to play video games. I never thought 60hz was noticably bad.........but a new technology should make something better (or at least the same), not worse. Video games? I bought my TV to watch TV- what a concept, huh? I can see a feature that might make gaming better, but it shouldn't compromise pic quality. Then again, I don't know. Can you set smooth 120 independently for each input? Or only adjust the video settings?

Convergence on CRTs is an issue, but fortunatley not on DLPs.

Thanks for the question - the first thing is to address what I'm using: WD-73833 w/the Harmony 880. The TV 'recognizes' whenever you plug something into the back. But the back also lists what each input 'means' : HDMI 1, HDMI 2, Component 1, Component 2, etc. When setting up (like in this case if I want to go from cable to my Wii) I set up the Wii to correspond to the Component input it's plugged into on my TV when going through the 'set-up' on the Harmony. Then when I select "Wii" on the remote it goes to the correct input every time - for my PS2, Wii, and Cable/HDTivo.
PM me if you have any other questions or if this is still vague.

One thing i've noticed with mine is that it seems to take awhile for the response of the tv to recognize the device. Not that big of a deal to me but it is kinda odd.

I honestly am not sure of what order they come on. I only have one HDMI input and 2 component. I've never turned on the TV to just the Wii, just cable/TIVO. I"ve had the TV for just a week now. My set up is: PS3, HD-A2, and HDTiVo all HDMI to an Oppo 3.1 switch to one HDMI out to my Denon 2808. The Wii is component and the PS2 WAS component (until an hour ago where I'm reconfiging it so it goes through the receiver to get upscaled). If you let me know how i can tell which device is turned on first I'll let you all know for sure. I read about the problems before getting the TV and expected them myself but, alas, I guess i'm lucky or doing something different from others. In other words, I use the defaults.

I think the 120Hz feature is primarily there to fix the problem with folks who want to playback movies on DVD players that are recorded and can play back at p24. Since most TVs will upconvert everything to p60, if they got a p24 signal, they had to do 3:2 pulldown, which meant some frames had to be repeated in an uneven pattern since 24 doesn't go into 60 evenly. This causes a lot of jitter in scenes with movement. TVs that do 120Hz will fix this problem since 24 goes into 120 evenly, so frames are repeated evenly (each frame in p24 is repeated 5 times), so now 24p sources look smooth (in some cases, from what I hear, too smooth). Of course, this doesn't do much of anything with p60 sources (just doubles the framerate - which may or may not be an improvement), which is what most people are looking at, so you won't see much of any difference. From what I've heard, if you have p24 material, and a player that's set up to pass p24, you will see a big difference. Now I also hear that there are some TVs that don't impliment 120hz correctly, and therefore don't fix the problem. Somewhere, I believe, there is a compiled list of TVs that do this correctly and those that don't. I apologize if I'm confused and am just repeating stuff you guys already know.

Thanks for this info. Can you give some idea of where we'd most likely run into p24 content? Trying to determine if 120hz is an option worth paying for...

Me too. My wife also likes the shiny case, says it makes it look like the pretty plasmas Wouldn't be the first time someone paid more for aesthetics. I also game on this tv so the 120 and glare reduction are factors too.

Probably the only place you'd enounter p24 content is with movies on DVD. Ironically, all movies are put on DVDs, HD-DVDs, and BR DVDs at 24fps, but the DVD players use the flags on the disc to interlace the frames into fields (for old TVs like mine) ,and to do the inverse 2:3 pulldown (to convert the display to 30fps) as needed. As more TVs get the ability to handle p24 video, more players will come with the ability to output it, since they don't have to do much more in the way of processing (in fact, they'd have to do less), and the output would look much better because they don't have to employ creative processing techniques that compromise the quality of the material.

The Toshiba HD-XA2 and HD-A20 are supposed to have firmware updates that allow it to output p24. Most of the new BR players output p24 as well. I haven't been following them as much because I'm in the market for a TV right now. You know your player can do it if you have a "movie", or "24 fps" output option in your player's setup menu.

All the other components that are feeding video to your TV are probably p30 or p60, so 120Hz won't really do anything for you. So I guess, if you don't watch a lot of movies and aren't willing to buy a player that can output p24, I wouldn't worry too much about a 120Hz capable TV.

Ok so I have had my 73833 for a little over a week now and I thought I'd give my impressions for anyone searching the forums trying to decide.
I'll start off by saying i haven't had a lot of time to tweak it since i've got finals (one more week and that baby is mine) But with it on standard settings I can say for gaming top notch. Don't know if it's the 120 or not but it is beautiful. Once I can get some HD-DVDs in it I'll repost my impressions along with some pics.
Also for those concerned with size I'll say this I sit roughly 10 ft away, 9 if i scoot the couch up a bit. and it seems like i want it to be bigger.
Standard def is predictably not the best but still looks ok, cartoons come out real well in SD think futurama.
I have downloaded some HD (720) content from Xbox live and it looks amazing.
So I'll be back in a week with more reviews and Pics. Finals suck!! LOL!