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Rock Band: The Next Great Franchise - Page 192

post #5731 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post

I'm not touching the pro guitar upgrades until I get my mitts on a Squier, but it's nice that we can upgrade our "legacy" RB2 tracks with pro guitar and I will probably pick up the pro guitar update for One Vision.

People were somewhat peeved that you couldn't upgrade the legacy on-disc Bon Jovi tracks with pro guitar/bass and they updated the Bon Jovi announcement to apologize for that and to reassure everyone that you'd be able to do that with legacy DLC for which they produced future pro guitar/bass upgrades. (I wonder if they'll offer pro guitar/bass upgrades for some keys-less DLC that they don't create RB3 versions of)?

I'm not sure how they could offer pro guitar/bass upgrades for on-disc tracks, since, isasmuch as they can't be sold ala carte, they don't have entries in the music store in which to list those upgrades as a purchase option. Seems to me that they could create entries for them, marked "pro upgrade only", with no "purchase song" option. If it is possible, they haven't choosen to do that yet.
post #5732 of 6042
Announcement: http://www.joystiq.com/2010/12/07/be...re-sales-star/

Discussion thread: http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210498
post #5733 of 6042
Wow!!! next weeks' DLC:
(I don't think I've ever seen a DLC release where I loved EVERY song till now!!!)

Billy Joel!

· “Big Shot” X
· “Captain Jack”
· “It’s Still Rock and Roll To Me”
· “Movin’ Out (Anthony’s Song)” X
· “Only the Good Die Young” X
· “Piano Man”
· “Pressure”
· “Say Goodbye to Hollywood”
· “The Entertainer”
· “The Stranger”
· “We Didn’t Start the Fire”
· “You May Be Right”
post #5734 of 6042
Couple of questions

So, I'm playing last night and was going through the Lennon DLC. Wanted to play "How Do You Sleep" on Pro Guitar. I bought the upgrade, the music store says it's in my library, yet the track shows "No Part" for the Pro Guitar. Maybe I forgot to actually download the upgrade? But I'll have to check later.

Also, does the Mustang have the equivlent of Shoulder buttons anywhere. When on quickplay, there seems to be no apparent ability to call up the category list. Makes it a real pain if you have a lot of DLC and want to play something far down the Alphabet.
post #5735 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillG View Post

Also, does the Mustang have the equivlent of Shoulder buttons anywhere. When on quickplay, there seems to be no apparent ability to call up the category list. Makes it a real pain if you have a lot of DLC and want to play something far down the Alphabet.

There are no shoulder buttons on the normal guitar either. One of the fret buttons (I don't remember which one off-hand) does that for you. Since the Mustang does offer compatibility with five-lane tracks, it probably uses the same button.
post #5736 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post

There are no shoulder buttons on the normal guitar either. One of the fret buttons (I don't remember which one off-hand) does that for you. Since the Mustang does offer compatibility with five-lane tracks, it probably uses the same button.

Nope.

For all of the devices where you can skip to the next heading and call up a list of headings to choose from, they say what button will do that at the bottom of the screen (the label flips between "Next Heading" and "Hold for Shortcuts"). For 5-button guitar controllers, it's the Orange fret button; for the pad, it's the right shoulder button; for the keyboard I think that it's the overdrive button. There is no such label at the bottom of the screen for the Mustang and I assume that there won't be one for the Squier either (it doesn't have any buttons that the Mustang doesn't). The addition of the new "Review" (Blue) and "View More Info" (Yellow) buttons used up the face buttons in the music library dialog. I wish that they'd dumped the Review button; I'd have kept Yellow for "Change Sort Order" and mapped Blue to "View More Info".

Since you can use frets 1-5 and 13-17 as GRYBO during play, they should have allowed you to use them that way for navigation. Having to scroll through all of the tracks while using the Mustang with no way to skip around is intensely annoying .
post #5737 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Having to scroll through all of the tracks while using the Mustang with no way to skip around is intensely annoying .

Wow. Well, that's a bummer. Hopefully that second patch they have been talking about will add in some way of doing this; although, as you say for the Squier such an option isn't possible anyway.

I guess you could always turn on a dpad and navigate with that, and then drop out before picking the song. That sounds pretty annoying but it might still be less annoying than having to manually scroll lists instead of jumping by heading.
post #5738 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post

I guess you could always turn on a dpad and navigate with that, and then drop out before picking the song. That sounds pretty annoying but it might still be less annoying than having to manually scroll lists instead of jumping by heading.

I hadn't thought of that! You don't have to drop out, if you don't need the slot that the pad is connected on (and if you do, you have a vocalist who could navigate in any case). I just tried it and it works. Thanks .
post #5739 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I hadn't thought of that! You don't have to drop out, if you don't need the slot that the pad is connected on (and if you do, you have a vocalist who could navigate in any case). I just tried it and it works. Thanks .

Sweet, glad that worked for you, and it will work for the Squier as well. Speaking of which, I am having a real hard time holding off on the Mustang waiting for the Squier. I am probably going to pick up the keyboard soon, I play a lot of Pro Drums but the five-lane guitar/bass and singing feel pretty stale to me.

So, how's the Mustang treating you? I know there are some others lurking that have Mustangs too...
post #5740 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post

So, how's the Mustang treating you? I know there are some others lurking that have Mustangs too...

The Mustang's fine. There are some obvious disadvantages to it not being a guitar, but there are a number of experienced guitar players who are having a lot of fun with it. Check out SpeedOfThought7's YouTube channel--he plays in a working alternative band called "In Vertigo". Also see this YouTube clip of "MrPulsar" playing the Expert Pro Guitar chart of "Antibodies", with inset video of him playing with a friend singing (I think that he did an incredible job of replicating his own face for the animated guitarist ).

I always try the stuff that I'm learning on my acoustic--the game will accept sloppy technique that would sound like ass on a stringed guitar. It probably will accept the same from the Squier, but at least with it you'll be able to feel vibration against fingers that shouldn't be touching strings adjacent to the ones that they're fretting, and anyone who doesn't tune the Squier and take the time to listen to themselves playing the things that they learn is an idiot. Of course, people who don't already play are going to have to enduring some weeks of pain until they develop calluses on their fingertips.

All in all I'd say that it's pretty well constructed and works extremely well. The neck is precisely the same length as the neck of my 20-fret acoustic (it only has 17 rows of fret bottons, but it's scored where the 18th, 19th and 20th frets would be) and the frets are properly spaced. I've even tried it out as a MIDI controller connected to my PC and it works fine (as does the keyboard), though promised documentation for that hasn't shown up yet. There are several of us AVS'er who bought them, mostly for the Xbox since those appeared first: ileff, WalksInDarkness, NoThru22, Lord Flatus and probably others. I'm happy that I bought it.
post #5741 of 6042
Does the squire have the auto calibration sensor?
post #5742 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salvador View Post

Does the squire have the auto calibration sensor?

Unknown, but looking at close-ups of it (like this one), I don't see any sign of the photosensor or microphone hole. The Mustang has them, but it might not have been something they thought to add to the Squier.
post #5743 of 6042
Wow! Downloaded the Billy Joel tracks last night and they are awesome! For older guys like me that listened to him in the 70s and 80s, you could not ask for better DLC. Just a great group of great songs. Way to go Harmonix!

Now for some Led Zepplin and maybe a Prince track pack...
post #5744 of 6042
BTW, one of the Harmonix mods, hmxhenry posted here about the Best Buy pre-order for the Squier, clarifying things a bit:
Quote:
The Best Buy deal is a US launch exclusive and the RB3 Squier Strat will be available at other retailers after launch, so this is your best chance to pre-order!
So Best Buy will not be the only place to get it, though it's not clear that they won't be the only place to pre-order it.
post #5745 of 6042
My pre-order for the Squier is in. Can't wait!

In the meantime, I finally picked up the keytar last week. I just dropped right into Expert Pro after getting annoyed with the tutorials and man it was rough at first. But after playing some five-lane keytar when I got frustrated I went back and feel much more comfortable now, and was able to 4 1/2 star Rock Lobster on sightread last night (91%). We'll see how it goes from here, but I had a huge grin on my face last night, it was a total blast.
post #5746 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post

In the meantime, I finally picked up the keytar last week. I just dropped right into Expert Pro after getting annoyed with the tutorials and man it was rough at first. But after playing some five-lane keytar when I got frustrated I went back and feel much more comfortable now, and was able to 4 1/2 star Rock Lobster on sightread last night (91%). We'll see how it goes from here, but I had a huge grin on my face last night, it was a total blast.

Damn! Have you ever played keys before? That's pretty impressive if you haven't and were able to pick up Pro Expert that fast. I still can't move into Pro mode because I am completely lost as to where my fingers are on the keyboard and I keep hitting the wrong notes.
post #5747 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Imp View Post

Damn! Have you ever played keys before? That's pretty impressive if you haven't and were able to pick up Pro Expert that fast.

I had nine years of piano instruction as a lad (a long time ago, but still nine years). While I haven't played in a long time there's no way I could have done that without having played before. Even with that, it was much rougher at first than I was expecting.
Quote:


I still can't move into Pro mode because I am completely lost as to where my fingers are on the keyboard and I keep hitting the wrong notes.

I think that just takes time, particularly if you've never played keys before. I wrote a much longer post on the RB forums that I will dig up and repost here with some more extensive thoughts.

Also, there are some songs that are easier, IMHO, than others to pick up. For example, Blue Monday is in the key of C and has no black key usage at all. Also, songs without chords are much easier to pick up initially. In general, it's wise to remember that tiering is very hit or miss and so there are some T0 songs that I really struggle with and then I go and do well on Rock Lobster which is higher-tiered song. So don't assume that struggling on a T0 song means the T1 songs are all going to be impossible.
post #5748 of 6042
From this thread on the RB forums: http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210789 which is a pretty good thread (although I disagree that five-lane keytar is nothing like pro keytar; I think there is definitely value in getting good at the five-lane mode as there are some shared attributes) Anyway, from that thread:

I've had about nine years of formal piano instruction, years and years ago, but I haven't played in a long time. I picked up my keytar last week and dived right into the tutorials. The easy ones are easy, then they ramp up quickly and I got frustrated. So, I went in and dived into Expert Pro and tried some songs. Wow. HARD. Really, really, really hard. Got more frustrated and discouraged.

At this point I was worried because I don't really want to spend the time practicing each song. I don't mind practicing some but this was really brutal, just failing out over and over again and flailing around feeling completely lost.

So, I played some regular keys for a while, which was fine. While playing regular keys I realized there were some technique issues that were causing me problems. The most important one is I tend (like a lot of people) to play a little more legato, and RB does not like that. Also, sometimes when moving to a different chord, with a note or two shared between the chords, I would leave the keys that are shared depressed and RB doesn't like that either. Cleaning up these issues helped my 5-lane keys results.

Anyway, I took a little break over the weekend and then said "what the hell" last night and dove right back in to Expert Pro. MAJOR improvement. No, I'm not brilliant (to say the least!), but I was able to sightread a 4 1/2 stars on Rock Lobster (91%) and to pass a bunch of songs (with crappy scores) that I was failing out on before. I am overall doing much better, although there are still some songs that pretty much fail me instantly because I'm not up to fast three or four note chords yet. And let's not talk about the really crazy high-end songs. BUT, I am now sight-read passing a good number of songs on Expert Pro, and that means I can play a number of not-the-easiest songs and learn them by playing, which is what I really wanted.

The difference for me last night was that it was really HARD, but it was FUN. Prior to that, it was really HARD and incredibly FRUSTRATING. I think there are some factors that came into play, at least for me:

#1: They keys are small. I'm used to larger keys, as I would imagine most people with any previous experience are. It took me some time to adapt to the size, which is very important so you can reach accurately without looking down. [EDIT] A poster subsequently mentions that the white keys are regular size, but the black keys are in fact narrower.
#2: Unlike Pro Guitar, keys only light up when you depress them. While this makes sense, it can make it very difficult to position your fingers correctly without looking down. Having previous piano experience here helps a lot, I think, as well as simply playing the thing enough to feel comfortable with the distance between keys.
#3: It takes time to even begin to be able to track RB pro keys notation on sight. I had to really let it sink in before I started feeling at all remotely comfortable moving around on the keyboard without either pushing keys to see where my fingers were (breaking combo and dropping your crowd meter of course) or looking down at the keys.
#4: Playing as a keytar. One of the things I chose to do was to play it as a keytar, not horizontal. That definitely feels awkward at first, but I feel a lot more comfortable now after playing a good amount of 5-lane keys.

I don't know if this is helpful to anyone, but for me, being patient and playing some 5-lane keytar has really helped me feel more comfortable with Pro Keys. I feel a lot closer to where I expected to be: "played a lot of piano a long time ago and is really rusty" rather than "what is this thing I have in my hands and what the hell is that on the screen and why am I failing out over and over again?".

td;lr version: It takes time to learn the dimensions of the keyboard, and it takes time to learn to sightread the RB notation. For most of us this is the first time we've had to learn new RB notation since RB1 (for some even before back to the GH games) and we are used to just knowing what to do.

Also, I think this will benefit me when my Squier (just pre-ordered!) comes; I am not as rusty on the guitar, but I know now that it really will take me some real effort and patience to learn to sight-read even simplistic Pro Guitar charts.
post #5749 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post

From this thread on the RB forums: http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210789 which is a pretty good thread (although I disagree that five-lane keytar is nothing like pro keytar; I think there is definitely value in getting good at the five-lane mode as there are some shared attributes) Anyway, from that thread:

[snip]

I'd like to chime in to say that I had a very similar series of reactions.

I had piano lessons in high school, and still have some rudimentary skill on a keyboard. Pro keys frustrated me initially. From both a classical piano perspective as well as from extensive GH and RB "note highway" experience, the Pro Keys notation is "weird" and extremely challenging at first.

Reluctantly, I switched to 5-lane keys and did fine. It is, after all, pretty dang easy. But playing 5-lane keys helped me identify some of the same issues Abaddon points out.

The keys on the RB peripheral seem smaller/closer than a regular "full size" keyboard...I haven't measured the peripheral keys against a real piano or anything, but I'm constantly having to reposition my hand because I find my middle/ring/pinky fingers are over the wrong keys. I don't have that problem with a real piano, so I suspect they are just small enough to throw me off, or maybe I'm compensating for the fact that the keyboard itself is only 2 octaves and rather small.

Second, the keys themselves are VERY sensitive...I've broken many a streak by lightly resting my hand in place during a pause in the action, only to have one finger's minuscule pressure end up triggering a note and breaking my streak. Frustrating.

The keys version of the whammy strip and OD activation are at an odd location for me. I still haven't gotten comfortable with it. I really want to move the button to the back edge rather than on the top surface where it is now. Perhaps a future mod of my keyboard is in order...

But overall the tutorials, while fairly challenging as you try to learn to read the notation and boring to repeat over and over, WILL end up teaching you how to read the Pro Keys charts. I'm not even all the way through the tutorials yet and I now have a pretty good idea of which keys they mean when I see a chord on the screen. "Ah, looks like C Augmented..." or "that is probably an E maj 3rd", etc. So I can confirm that you DO eventually learn to start sight reading the rather daunting Pro Keys notation.

It just take some practice.
post #5750 of 6042
I've played piano since my teens (about 33 or 34 years years) and I didn't have much problem with the dimensions of the keys. I just measured the keyboard against my Yamaha upright and the white keys are exactly the same width (6.5" across an octave) but the top of the black keys are maybe 1/16" narrower, which I imagine might be within variance from brand-to-brand (.5" on the Yamaha). Both white and black keys are .5" shorter (5.5" vs 6" white, 3.5 vs 4" black); that I did feel--I kept stubbing the back of the my middle finger at first. The distance from the front of the black keys to the front of the white keys is the same, 2".

I bought the bundle and played around with it and its trainer for about 10 days until I got the Mustang and haven't touched it since. I only tried "basic keys" once, but I might try it again. There are some outrageous chord which would be very difficult to play on a guitar controller.
post #5751 of 6042
sorry for waking up from the dead, but discovered today that RB2 can no longer be used to buy new songs ?! Is that right ?

So I have to get RB3, I was going to anyway, but was merely taking my time as it looks like lots of hardware is not out yet ..
post #5752 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

sorry for waking up from the dead, but discovered today that RB2 can no longer be used to buy new songs ?! Is that right ?

So I have to get RB3, I was going to anyway, but was merely taking my time as it looks like lots of hardware is not out yet ..

Yeah--you cannot use any of the DLC that was released since RB3 launch in RB2.

AFAIK, the only hardware that's not available yet for the PS3 is the Squier guitar controller (there's only one model, so it's not available for any platform yet); you can pre-order that from Best Buy for $280 (you'll need the MIDI Pro Adapter to play the game), but it's apparently not coming until April.

It might also be difficulty to find the MIDI Pro Adapter for PS3, but I believe that it has shipped.
post #5753 of 6042
Amazon.com claims that neither MIDI adapter will be released until Boxing Day.
post #5754 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Yeah--you cannot use any of the DLC that was released since RB3 launch in RB2.

AFAIK, the only hardware that's not available yet for the PS3 is the Squier guitar controller (there's only one model, so it's not available for any platform yet); you can pre-order that from Best Buy for $280 (you'll need the MIDI Pro Adapter to play the game), but it's apparently not coming until April.

It might also be difficulty to find the MIDI Pro Adapter for PS3, but I believe that it has shipped.

thx ! lets go get RB3. I need new songs.
post #5755 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Amazon.com claims that neither MIDI adapter will be released until Boxing Day.

Hmmm. According to store.gameshark.com, the Xbox and Wii versions have shipped, but not the PS3 one. They don't know when they'll get a new shipment of Xbox ones, but the Wii version is available for immediate order. I know that there's a guy on the rockband.com forums who has at least one ("Doc_SoCal"--I think that he said that he nabbed the last couple on the shelves at some store). He has RB on both the Xbox and PS3, but I suppose that he only has Xbox versions of this box.

A number of RB players who are guitarist who don't want to shell out the $150 for the Mustang, have begged for access to the pro guitar charts, which they can use to learn the songs. This $40 box gives it to you. If you put it in guitar mode, the game will think that you have the Squier even though nothing's plugged into the adapter's MIDI input.
post #5756 of 6042
I've being living under a rock. Just got RB2 yesterday. Why haven't I purchased it before? Used to be a guitar player in a real rock band. I moved away so I'm no longer in the band, got nostalgia and maybe because now My kids are old enough to have fun with me. And we are all having fun with it.
Anyways,..just a quick simple question,..how do you unlock songs (the ones that are supposed to be included in the disc)
Thanks in advance.
post #5757 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

I've being living under a rock. Just got RB2 yesterday. Why haven't I purchased it before? Used to be a guitar player in a real rock band. I moved away so I'm no longer in the band, got nostalgia and maybe because now My kids are old enough to have fun with me. And we are all having fun with it.
Anyways,..just a quick simple question,..how do you unlock songs (the ones that are supposed to be included in the disc)
Thanks in advance.

Just play through the career mode or do the challenges to unlock songs.
post #5758 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

sorry for waking up from the dead, but discovered today that RB2 can no longer be used to buy new songs ?! Is that right ?

So I have to get RB3, I was going to anyway, but was merely taking my time as it looks like lots of hardware is not out yet ..

Yeah I'm bummed I can't buy new songs for RB2 also. They still sell the old stuff though, so whenever I get the itch for a new song I'll browse through the old DLC and buy something.
post #5759 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

sorry for waking up from the dead, but discovered today that RB2 can no longer be used to buy new songs ?! Is that right ?

To be specific, songs released after RB3 release (starting with the Doors tracks) can only be played with RB3. Songs released prior to that can still be played with RB2.
post #5760 of 6042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abaddon View Post

To be specific, songs released after RB3 release (starting with the Doors tracks) can only be played with RB3. Songs released prior to that can still be played with RB2.

I believe that new Rock Band Network tracks are still backward-compatible too, though that may change when folks start authoring for keys and the pro instruments with the new tools...

- Jer
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