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Harmony 880/890 deserves its bad rep?

post #1 of 52
8/31/07 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
I am in the market for a new remote control. The Harmony 880/890 seem to be offering everything a majority of users are looking for from price to features (at least initially). However, I can't escape the impending doom and gloom reviews from 1+ year owners. They all keep talking about the cradle not recharging the remote anymore after 1-1.5 years. They mentioned everything from no recharging to intermittent recharging due to heavy footsteps jarring the remote a tiny bit out of skew.

I am sure these questions have been hammered away at endless already. I have also read an earful of negative feedback on a million and one online resources. So if you guys can shed some light on this topic that I might not find online elsewhere I would appreciate it.

Questions:
(For all the 880/890 users out there that have owned this remote a while.)


- Does this charger failure problem effect 100% of all owners? Or, is this a problem that only effects some?

- For those that have had the problem, how easy was it to get Logitech to replace it for you? (speak about experiences if you can) I had Logitech's flagship surround speakers fail on me once 2 years into ownership and they will willing and quick to replace them even with no receipt. All I had to mail back was the remote and within a week they mailed me a brand new speaker setup. I was impressed with Logitech customer service. However, some of the things I read about this remote make it sound like a totally different company. Makes it hard for me to believe after my own experiences.

- Is the problem the recharger base starts to fail after a year+ (cause outside of contact corrosion that makes no sense to me)? Or is the reality of the situation the battery dies after a year+? (This makes more sense if this is the case. However, is it possible to rip apart the remote and put in a new rechargeable?)

- Is there any mod users can do to avoid this base issue? If the largest problem with the base is the remote doesn't meet with the charging contacts very effectively, can't you solder or mod on some taller contacts that will never have a problem with touching the remote?

- Is the 890 any more or less immune to these issues then the 880?

- Would it be smarter to buy a refurbished model in hope they corrected any manufacturing problems?

Thx in advance everyone!
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post #2 of 52
8/31/07 at 5:09pm
I have owned two different 880's. My first one's tilt sensor stopped working after 1.5 years for some odd reason, but the charger was fine. I'm on my second 880 (1 year) and haven't had any issues with it.

I have several friends who have owned them for 2+ years and have not had any problems with the charger base. In my experience, if you don't have any initial problems with the charger base, you won't suddenly develop them.
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post #3 of 52
8/31/07 at 10:05pm
Supposedly, Logitech redesigned the cradle a while back. I don't know if the new design addresses the specific issue you're talking about, but I would guess that it does.
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post #4 of 52
8/31/07 at 10:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caiwyn View Post

Supposedly, Logitech redesigned the cradle a while back. I don't know if the new design addresses the specific issue you're talking about, but I would guess that it does.

Thx for that link...actually I think it does address that issue. From what I found out tonight when 880 1st came out. They did a remote control redesign to the body right before final release (no clue why).. but did not redesign the base. The remote and the cradle did not pair up perfectly because of that last minute tweak. Thanks for that link though... thats evidence that Logitech later redesigned the base to match the new remote shape (which is info I didn't have)

I still see a ton of users on Amazon who later do updates saying there remote failed for various reasons. Which has me paranoid... but for the cheap price tag (125 bucks new)... not the biggest deal.

I went ahead tonight and took the plunge and purchased an 880 anyway. Wish me luck... I hope I get a good one!
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post #5 of 52
8/31/07 at 11:55pm
If it's related to wear and tear on the hardware, maybe you could avoid putting it in the cradle when it still has a good charge left.
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post #6 of 52
9/1/07 at 3:53am
Mine is about two years old. My rocker buttons (channel up and volume up) take a bit of effort, but everything works fine otherwise. Still the best remote I have ever used.
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post #7 of 52
9/1/07 at 5:43am
Initially I had the cradle issue, but was able to get it to charge by setting it down in the cradle several times until it started charging.

Then the charges which used to last for several days, started lasting a day at best. Then it quit reposnding to anything.

So I replaced it with a URC MX-900 and couldn't be happier. The button presses on the URC make things respond so much quicker than they did on the 880.
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post #8 of 52
9/1/07 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by woots View Post

...
I still see a ton of users on Amazon who later do updates saying there remote failed for various reasons. Which has me paranoid... but for the cheap price tag (125 bucks new)... not the biggest deal. ...

For anyone that is really worried about this cradle issue (and the button issues): there is always the 720, which has six soft buttons, compared to the eight on the 880, but it is a totally different design and does not seem to be reporting these issues. There is a whole thread on this model (with a picture in the first post).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=681453

Costco have been selling it for $120 (Aug. 2007), but they don't always have it. Most other stores that carry it (Sears and Target possibly) usually sell it for $200. Amazon has been selling it for about $150 but their prices fluctuate quite a bit sometimes.
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post #9 of 52
9/1/07 at 9:55am
Thread Starter 
Does this remote allow you to program macros? (like turn on/off all your components with 1 macro button)
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post #10 of 52
9/1/07 at 10:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by woots View Post

Does this remote allow you to program macros? (like turn on/off all your components with 1 macro button)

All Harmony remotes do that (and they all have the same basic abilities, regardless of price). The button layout and styling is almost the only real difference, except that:
- (1) There are two models that can use an RF extender (890 and 1000).
- (2) There is only one touchscreen model (1000).
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post #11 of 52
9/1/07 at 7:36pm
Thread Starter 
Thx for the feedback and info everyone.

My remote should get shipped here by middle of next week.

Does anyone know if there is a way to tweak the GUI's icons with your own graphics? It would be a cool mod to put in nicer looking icons. I read you can upload your own images for backgrounds or whatever. If you can do that I wonder if there is a way to get inside the remote program and extract out the images and redesign them and inject them back in and recompile the lil remote program.

Anyone know if the GUI layout is part of the firmware or if it is visible somewhere in the folders via the USB?

I am sure it would be a good way to nuke your remote and void the warranty if it all goes south and locks up your remote. You would have to keep backups of the original internal remote software on the off chance you could still reboot your remote.
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post #12 of 52
9/1/07 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by woots View Post

Does anyone know if there is a way to tweak the GUI's icons with your own graphics? It would be a cool mod to put in nicer looking icons. I read you can upload your own images for backgrounds or whatever. If you can do that I wonder if there is a way to get inside the remote program and extract out the images and redesign them and inject them back in and recompile the lil remote program.

- I've never seen any way to edit or hack the GUI icons. The background image is the only one that can be changed through the interface.
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post #13 of 52
9/2/07 at 6:46am
Here's my suggestion for you. If your remote has ANY issue during the first year don't hesitate to exchange it under warranty. Mine from 1.5 years ago developed a washed out LCD screen where it was hard to read the commands on the screen. I exchanged it after about 10 months from purchase and ended up with a nice fresh one. Logitech are very good about warranty exchanges so make the most of it. Actually the first replacement had an issue with the directional pad contacts not being very responsive so they sent me yet another one which worked fine.

This past week I ordered a 890 and sent back my HotLink Pro IR distributor and sold my 880 on craigslist for $110. I had a ton of calls for it at that price and almost makes me want to order a batch of Amazon refurbs to resell for $125 or so

Anyway, the 890 works great and took hardly any time at all to setup since I had the 880 already in my account. Things seem to work better than my 880 did alone or with the HotLink Pro. I think my problem was my 58" plasma was throwing out a bunch of IR noise, but now all my components have a direct link to the RF extender and the TV has the extender right under it controlled by the IR flasher. It works great and my line-of-sight issues with my new cabinet are gone. I'm still finding myself pointing the 890 at the components even though there is no IR emitting from it.
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post #14 of 52
9/2/07 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 
Ya lol... when I bought my ps3 blu ray remote (which is blue tooth) I kept aiming at the ps3 like it was doing something. Even knowing full well its bluetooth! Old habits are hard to break.

I agree about Logitech being good about honoring their products. I will keep an eye on the performance and return it without hesitation if problems arise. At least a universal remote is something we can all live without (at least for a 2-4 week period until the new one arrives) So, I don't have a problem turning it in at 1st sign of trouble.
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post #15 of 52
9/2/07 at 3:46pm
I have the 890 and havent used it since I installed Vista a few months ago. I had bought a new TV at the time as well and I couldn't program the remote because the software didn't work. Guess I'll give it another go before I post it on ebay.
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post #16 of 52
9/2/07 at 3:53pm
When the LogicTech website works properly the remoste is ok to set up but still even at that it has it's issues. I have 2 890 remotes in my house and every so often they jam up and need to be re-programed and it is a lengthy process. If your internet provider has any type of firewall forget about an easy program of this remote.
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post #17 of 52
9/3/07 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamezHill View Post

I have the 890 and havent used it since I installed Vista a few months ago. I had bought a new TV at the time as well and I couldn't program the remote because the software didn't work. Guess I'll give it another go before I post it on ebay.

I use Vista to program the remote and have no problem at all. Just go to the website and download the latest software and forget about what came in the box.
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post #18 of 52
9/4/07 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kex View Post

All Harmony remotes do that (and they all have the same basic abilities, regardless of price). The button layout and styling is almost the only real difference, except that:
- (1) There are two models that can use an RF extender (890 and 1000).
- (2) There is only one touchscreen model (1000).

That's actually not true. You used to be able to do this, but Logitech undid the "macros" function in March or so of this year. So, no, presently you cannot press one button and have it do multiple things. That said, the outcry from harmony owner's has been so loud that supposedly the next software/firmware update will re-enable macros (this was originally supposed to be in the July release).

Google it for more info.

--Mav
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post #19 of 52
9/4/07 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

That's actually not true. You used to be able to do this, but Logitech undid the "macros" function in March or so of this year. So, no, presently you cannot press one button and have it do multiple things. That said, the outcry from harmony owner's has been so loud that supposedly the next software/firmware update will re-enable macros (this was originally supposed to be in the July release).

Google it for more info.

--Mav

The question mentioned macros for turning devices on and off and setting inputs etc. Harmonys do do this, they just call them "Activities" rather than "macros".
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post #20 of 52
9/4/07 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

That's actually not true. ...

The original question was somewhat ambiguous:
Quote:
"Does this remote allow you to program macros? (like turn on/off all your components with 1 macro button)".

All Harmony remotes DO let you do what the poster asks, without question. In fact, they arguably do it better than other remotes since you do not even have to program the macro yourself: the software does it all for you. They do NOT, however, allow macros on buttons other than the activity buttons that achieve this intended result (although this feature may be brought back apparently). Again, in the context of the question, they DO EXACTLY what he asked for ... flawlessly. They not only turn on/off all components as required, but also set all inputs/outputs correctly and adjust surround sound settings etc. too.

There is a real life example in this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post11524282
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post #21 of 52
9/5/07 at 5:37am
O.K., true, but I read his question differently. I thought he was asking if you could assign macros to buttons (and used the power on/off as an unfortunate serial example -- since it's true for the example but not for the larger question). So, in the interest of full disclosure, he should know that, at this time, the ONLY single-button multi-device response he's going to get is when he selects an activity or shuts the system down. Other than that, he, and the myriad other Harmony 890 owners (like me) are fubared unless or until a software/firmware update is released that re-enables the feature.

--Mav
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post #22 of 52
9/5/07 at 6:50am
Mav, I think enough has been said. The answer to the question as asked is "yes", not "that is actually not true". The example in the above link is clear as to what is possible. If you feel that it might be helpful to elaborate on what is not possible, and in what circumstances that capability would prove useful, please do so. Thnx.
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post #23 of 52
9/5/07 at 7:51am
I still disagree with you reading of the question (I think the answer to the "question as asked" is "it depends -- yes for on/off, no for everything else"), but no matter; you read it one way, I read it another; no biggie. I bet he didn't even know that the answer to his example was "yes" and the answer to what I considered to be the primary question was "no". Oh well, ambiguous questions yield ambiguous answers.

As for elaboration, let's try this. It's clear that a macro of sorts is applied when an activity is selected and the power off button is pressed. It would also be helpful to have macros assignable to the individual buttons mid-activity (e.g. whilst watching a DVD). For instance, lets say you're watching a movie in your HT. You have your DVD Activity "macro" set to turn on the DVD player, Display, Amp, etc., and to kill the lights; now, you get 30 minutes or so into it and realize you need to go to the bathroom, so you pause the movie; but, the lights are still out, so you have to fenagle you way to the lights softkey (if you've programmed one) or to the lights device to turn up the lights; alternatively, if you could assign macros to the pause button, you assign the pause command and the lights up command to the pause button in the DVD Activity -- pretty handy. Another example is if you're like me and like to fall asleep with the TV on, but are oftentimes too lazy to get off your kiester and turn off the lights; you could set a softkey in the watch tv activity to "Sleep" which, when pressed, would shut out the lights, set the sleep function on the TV (even if this requires multiple keystrokes), set the sleep function on the Receiver (even if this requires multiple keystrokes). Or, if there's a particular function in, say the TV menu, that you use all the time, but hate having to navigate there all the time, and would rather just assign a softkey, you could assign the keystroke sequence to the softkey. The possibilities are really endless. That's why people were so irrate when Logitech removed this capability in March.

--Mav
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post #24 of 52
9/5/07 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

I still disagree with you reading of the question (I think the answer to the "question as asked" is "it depends -- yes for on/off, no for everything else"), but no matter; you read it one way, I read it another; no biggie. I bet he didn't even know that the answer to his example was "yes" and the answer to what I considered to be the primary question was "no". Oh well, ambiguous questions yield ambiguous answers.

As for elaboration, let's try this. It's clear that a macro of sorts is applied when an activity is selected and the power off button is pressed. It would also be helpful to have macros assignable to the individual buttons mid-activity (e.g. whilst watching a DVD). For instance, lets say you're watching a movie in your HT. You have your DVD Activity "macro" set to turn on the DVD player, Display, Amp, etc., and to kill the lights; now, you get 30 minutes or so into it and realize you need to go to the bathroom, so you pause the movie; but, the lights are still out, so you have to fenagle you way to the lights softkey (if you've programmed one) or to the lights device to turn up the lights; alternatively, if you could assign macros to the pause button, you assign the pause command and the lights up command to the pause button in the DVD Activity -- pretty handy. Another example is if you're like me and like to fall asleep with the TV on, but are oftentimes too lazy to get off your kiester and turn off the lights; you could set a softkey in the watch tv activity to "Sleep" which, when pressed, would shut out the lights, set the sleep function on the TV (even if this requires multiple keystrokes), set the sleep function on the Receiver (even if this requires multiple keystrokes). Or, if there's a particular function in, say the TV menu, that you use all the time, but hate having to navigate there all the time, and would rather just assign a softkey, you could assign the keystroke sequence to the softkey. The possibilities are really endless. That's why people were so irrate when Logitech removed this capability in March.

--Mav

The Harmony remotes aren't marketed to have that ability. It should have been looked upon as an added bonus when it was sort of enabled previously and again when it is added in the future as an actual macro feature. When the new software is released with the macro functionality included and the remotes are promised to work with that functionality then any complaints will be valid. If the OP wants a remote to do what you gave as examples then he should look elsewhere (URC) or wait for the new Harmony software. However, I think a Harmony remote will do what he needs out of the box.
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post #25 of 52
9/5/07 at 9:31am
Brian, I don't know about whether we should have thought of that as a "bonus". When I bought my remote, I did so knowing and partly because it had this ability -- not as a bonus, but as a key feature; when Logitech subsequently disabled it in a software "update"/downgrade, I was a tad irrate (as were many other folks). Macro functionality is a pretty "standard" function on mid- to high-end universal remotes. IMO, it doesn't need to be specifically marketed in order for the consumer to have an expectation that it will be in a $400 remote -- it was there to begin with and was disabled subsequently. It's analagous to if I bought M$ Office Pro, and then 2 months later, Excel was disabled. There would be justified public outcry over that just as the somewhat smaller outcry over Logitech's crippling of its own device was justified.


No matter though because supposedly Logitech has "committed" to re-enabling the feature . . . . although, when is still somewhat of a mystery. We'll see.
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post #26 of 52
9/5/07 at 3:42pm
Thread Starter 
I appreciate the input guys.. didn't mean to spark a debate here. Macro is a blanket term... telling the remote to execute my predefined series of commands.

I realize this can cover a gambit from turn on 15 device in order one after the other with the press of one button. Even more complex macro's like; tell my DVD player to hit play, tell my receiver to turn on THX ultra DSP, tell my tv to set screen size to full pixel, tell my receiver to crank volume up to 100, etc etc. I realize this whole gambit is covered in the term macro. I did not mean to be so vague, but I appreciate some clarity telling me the higher commands are not working for macros on this remote.

So I am a little confused after that string of responces... I just want to clarify...
Can I turn on multiple devices with the touch of 1 button (as defined by me)?
Can I turn off multiple devices with touch of 1 button (as defined by me)?
(I know they have to be set to different macro buttons, I just want clear confirmation.)

No more commands other then simple on or off are of interest to me (at this time). I have heard firmware is coming elsewhere on this forums and has been promised all summer long with no delivery. I will look forward to that tweak when it comes. If this remote cant macro turn on and off with hit of a button I will be disappointed to say the least, I would have assumed a remote with all these bells and whistle could pull off something so simple from 1st day of release... especially when much less universal remotes have macros.

Thx in advance for your help... i actually get my new remote in the mail from UPS within this next coming hour... so I suppose I will have all these answers 1st hand. However, if you can still clarify I'd appreciate the input.
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post #27 of 52
9/5/07 at 4:05pm
The Activity is the actual macro process. When you go to each Activity, it will turn on any devices needed for that Activity. You can also add additional commands on the start or end of the Activity. However, once you are in the Activity, you cannot perform any other macros.

There is an "Off" button that will turn everything off when you are done.
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post #28 of 52
9/5/07 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by woots View Post

...
So I am a little confused after that string of responces... I just want to clarify...
Can I turn on multiple devices with the touch of 1 button (as defined by me)?
Can I turn off multiple devices with touch of 1 button (as defined by me)?
(I know they have to be set to different macro buttons, I just want clear confirmation.) ...

Woots ... I understood your concern completely the first time. The answer is yes, and yes. You should be delighted. Just take the time while you're waiting to note down all your equipment:
- brand name
- model number (not the s/n)

Example:
receiver = harman/kardon AVR147.
DVD player = oppo DV-980H
etc. etc. ...

You'll need this to get going. Also, ignore any CDs in the box: just use the web based software. Good luck and enjoy!
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post #29 of 52
9/5/07 at 7:47pm
Thread Starter 
I got to say this remote is giving me everything I wanted out of the macro end and then some. Those activities are very very customizable! I like how it will turn on my xbox 360, turn on xbox 360 channel on receiver, and flip the input on my tv.. all with one button... this was the best case scenario I what I needed this remote to do for me macro wise.

Thx again everyone!

PS: I love that I can upload my own tv channel icons for my favorites channels... this is also what I wanted... tv channel logos

I couldn't be happier... this remote is going to own for me... until it breaks... I kid, I kid!
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post #30 of 52
9/5/07 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by woots View Post

I got to say this remote is giving me everything I wanted out of the macro end and then some. ...
I couldn't be happier... this remote is going to own for me... until it breaks... I kid, I kid!

Glad to hear it! Enjoy (and don't worry so much about the breaking: I am not convinced that percentage wise the number is all that scary. Probably about 1% of owners or less, so you might get lucky!).
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