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Screenshot War!!!!!!!! - Page 17

post #481 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by NautikaL View Post

Okay that made no sense the first time around until I figured out disco meant disconnect .

How about this... is it fine to use via HDMI or is it still skewed towards the red? Thanks.

Sorry. There's no way to convert HDMI/DVI to b/w. Nor for RGB. For those formats you need the correct patterns. Our tricks for getting pure b/w for use with grayscale can only go so far...

And you can't just always turn your color intensity all the way off, to get pure b/w for grayscale purposes. That can slew the colorations massively. On a Tosh RPTV in sm, it will give you phosphorescent Kryptonite green!

Grayscale has to be done with color and tint at least close to what they will be in the end. If too far away, you're taking chances, as grayscale CAN be interactive with color and tint. Color and tint are interactive with contrast level. When doing ceiling pjs, ISF's Jim Doolittle always has all 3 guns on whenever he only needs 2, or even one, because the load on the power supply can change things in there, depending on how hard it is being asked to work. He keeps them on and covered up, rather than take any chances.


In the end, eveything has to be excellently dialed in IN THE CONDITION IN WHICH IT WILL BE WATCHED. Color, tint, brightness, contrast, convergence, focusing, everything.


Mr Bob
post #482 of 5478
Okay last post before this thread gets far too off topic (I'll have to post some screenshots in here sometime!)

So what would you recommend I use to setup grayscale? I have a Toshiba HD-A2 outputting HDMI to a HDFury and then going through the RTC2200 RGB pass-through (gamma correction).
post #483 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by NautikaL View Post

Okay last post before this thread gets far too off topic (I'll have to post some screenshots in here sometime!)

So what would you recommend I use to setup grayscale? I have a Toshiba HD-A2 outputting HDMI to a HDFury and then going through the RTC2200 RGB pass-through (gamma correction).

As Art says, the HD-DVD version of DVE has excellent patterns, all around. The DVE discs are very reasonably priced, esp. if you go thru Amazon.com.

There's a website with tutorials on it. It's www.videoessentials.com. The tutorial is at http://www.videoessentials.com/dvehd/index.html.


Mr Bob
post #484 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

Mike, which Blu-Ray titles do you have? If you have any from Sony Pictures, all you have to do is type "SONY" (7669) on the menu to get a great 1080P test pattern.

I'm still playing with all of the settings on my new camera. It seems like I have to throttle it back a lot more to avoid over-saturation and over-exposure (not just with "Crank" which is intentionally over-saturated)...







G90 with 9861 hours, 9.5' wide, blu-ray at 1080P, PS3 HDMI to moome IFB with gamma.

Damn Clarence,

That second shot of Jason, you feel like you could reach out and belt him one

Great thread, and I enjoy looking at all of the screen shots.

Keep em coming.
post #485 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

G90 Stack:



BenQ:



Cliff

Cliff,

I have no illusions that your setup would wax my Benq if they were side by side

Those shots you took at Arts look fantastic!
post #486 of 5478
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Cliff,

I have no illusions that your setup would wax my Benq if they were side by side

Those shots you took at Arts look fantastic!

Thanks so much. I for one as well think those shots of Art's Sim are kick ass. Those are the LARGEST screen shots I have ever posted thanks to that bad boys SHARP picture. Awesome setup Art has now. Love it.

Cliff
post #487 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Damn Clarence,

That second shot of Jason, you feel like you could reach out and belt him one

Oh, I wouldn't belt him just yet. I think he's just finishing up. Or is he just starting? Gotta do some checking (good excuse, where was that scene?...) Either way, she looks happy...

Wouldn't want to disturb that -

You got to let a man finish with his woman before you belt him...





Mr Bob
post #488 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Damn Clarence,

That second shot of Jason, you feel like you could reach out and belt him one

Great thread, and I enjoy looking at all of the screen shots.

Keep em coming.

I didn't like that one because it was over-saturated... it was driving me crazy on my new camera. IMHO, it made Jason look sunburned and jaundiced. And the background magentas and cyans were way too hot and cartoony.

But good news... I was clicking through the camera's menus last night and I found where the original owner had bumped up the Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, and Tone of the default "Standard" Picture Style (400D Menu 2... Picture Style... Set... Standard... Jump: Detail Set... Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Color tone.)

The 400D/XTi comes with 3 User Def settings for this purpose. So I don't think they should let you modify the 6 preset Styles (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful, Monochrome).

Anyways, I'm going to reshoot some scenes tonight and they'll be much closer to reference.

Also, on the far right side, you'll notice where my raster extends beyond the existing wear on the green tube. I rarely notice it on my screen, but in screenshots it really stands out. So I think I'm going to scale my screen size down about 4". But as Bob noticed... not too shabby for 9,800 hours on the original tubes.
post #489 of 5478
Clarence, I though you were using 108" wide anyway. Your shots above say 9.5' though.
post #490 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

I didn't like that one because it was over-saturated... it was driving me crazy on my new camera. IMHO, it made Jason look sunburned and jaundiced. And the background magentas and cyans were way too hot and cartoony.

But good news... I was clicking through the camera's menus last night and I found where the original owner had bumped up the Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, and Tone of the default "Standard" Picture Style (400D Menu 2... Picture Style... Set... Standard... Jump: Detail Set... Sharpness, Contrast, Saturation, Color tone.)

The 400D/XTi comes with 3 User Def settings for this purpose. So I don't think they should let you modify the 6 preset Styles (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful, Monochrome).

Anyways, I'm going to reshoot some scenes tonight and they'll be much closer to reference.

Also, on the far right side, you'll notice where my raster extends beyond the existing wear on the green tube. I rarely notice it on my screen, but in screenshots it really stands out. So I think I'm going to scale my screen size down about 4". But as Bob noticed... not too shabby for 9,800 hours on the original tubes.


Clarence,

Could you shoot the same scenes, so we can see the difference?
post #491 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Oh, I wouldn't belt him just yet. I think he's just finishing up. Or is he just starting? Gotta do some checking (good excuse, where was that scene?...) Either way, she looks happy...

Wouldn't want to disturb that -

You got to let a man finish with his woman before you belt him...





Mr Bob

I hear ya...
post #492 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

Clarence, I though you were using 108" wide anyway. Your shots above say 9.5' though.

My screen is framed/bordered to 9.5' wide. But I have those 2 full-height black speaker columns which I can pull in or out to decrease the screen width, effectively masking the screen width.

So even though tthe screen is 9.5' wide, the projected image pictured above is "only" 108" (9' wide), because of the 61" height of the material... 108/16*9 = 60.75" So 108" x 60.75" is probably the proper label.

I'll probably pull the right-side column in another 4" where the raster extends beyond the existing wear. I'll re-border the top and bottom of the frame... to end up with 104" x 58.5" (16:9).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Clarence,

Could you shoot the same scenes, so we can see the difference?

Sure... I'm still trying to pick the best settings, so I always take tons of permutations... ISO, Av, exposure time, Picture modes, zoom width, etc. I prefer to use neutral settings... no boost in contrast or saturation. And no post-processing... no photoshop sharpening... just crop and resize.
post #493 of 5478
The detail from this 10.1MP camera is pretty amazing.

Check out this resized screenshot...


Here's an unresized crop:
post #494 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

As Art says, the HD-DVD version of DVE has excellent patterns, all around. The DVE discs are very reasonably priced, esp. if you go thru Amazon.com.

There's a website with tutorials on it. It's www.videoessentials.com. The tutorial is at http://www.videoessentials.com/dvehd/index.html.


Mr Bob

161 pages?! However, interesting and more useful than the download for the regular version (at "only" 69 pages).
Wish I had a duplex printer, though. A duplex COLOR printer.
Yup, and a house in Malibu and a....

Michael
post #495 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

The detail from this 10.1MP camera is pretty amazing.

Check out this resized screenshot...


Here's an unresized crop:

Okay, that is insane!
post #496 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by imprez25 View Post

Okay, that is insane!


I second that!
post #497 of 5478
Thread Starter 
Awesome Clarence!!!!!!!

Cliffy
post #498 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Clarence,

Could you shoot the same scenes, so we can see the difference?

I'll do one step better... I'll use a reference frame directly from the blu-ray and then show the same screenshot as I change camera settings.

Here's the original scene that sarah99 extracted from blu-ray and posted in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=663

That is not a screenshot... I call it a "frame capture" or a "screen grab". I copied this 1920x1080 jpg (actually, I think it was 1920x1088) to a CF card and inserted it into my PS3... looks just like the blu-ray, except I don't have to navigate to the same scene and pause at the exact frame... much easier. Plus, the jpg on CF gets rid of the pause symbol.

The original reference frame, resized to width=800 for easier comparison:


Here's my camera's "Standard" settings. Although I notice in the EXIF info, it doesn't use my camera's "Picture Style" names (Standard, Portrait, Landscape, Neutral, Faithful), but it does list the value for contrast, saturation, and sharpness...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EXIF View Post

File: - C:\\PICTURES\\2007\\0710 - October 2007\\IMG_1180.JPG

Make - Canon
Model - Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
DateTime - 2007:10:02 17:36:08
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 196
ExposureTime - 1/1.7 seconds
FNumber - 7.10
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 400
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2007:10:02 17:36:08
DateTimeDigitized - 2007:10:02 17:36:08
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/2 seconds
ApertureValue - F 7.10
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 42 mm
UserComment -
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3888
ExifImageHeight - 2592
InteroperabilityOffset - 5766
FocalPlaneXResolution - 4433.30
FocalPlaneYResolution - 4453.61
FocalPlaneResolutionUnit - Inch
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Auto
SceneCaptureType - Standard

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Macro mode - Normal
Self timer - 100/10 sec
Quality - Fine
Flash mode - Not fired
Sequence mode - Single or Timer
Focus mode - One-Shot
Image size - Large
Easy shooting mode - Manual
Digital zoom - None
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - High , +4

ISO Value - 32767
Metering mode - Evaluative
Focus type - Auto
AF point selected -
Exposure mode - Manual
Focal length - 28 - 80 mm (1 mm)
Flash activity - Not fired
Flash details -
Focus mode 2 - Single
White Balance - Auto
Sequence number - 0
Flash bias - 0.00 EV
Subject Distance - 0
Image Type - Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XTi
Firmware Version - Firmware 1.1.1
Owner Name - unknown
Camera Serial Number - 1120631205
File number - 625 - 2496

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 6132
JpegIFByteCount - 7222

Contrast and Stauration are "Normal", but "Sharpness is reported as "High , +4", even though that's the camera's "Standard" Photo Style. But next time I'll try to bump that down to "Sharpness - Normal".


My screenshot (G90, 108" wide, 1080P)...
Camera's "Standard" settings: f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds


Not bad. In fact, the contrast and white balance look arguably better. The primaries (RGB) are more saturated. But I'm losing a lot of detail in the brown dreadlocks.

The original reference frame, resized to width=800 for easier comparison:


The colors had too much punch compared to the reference, so I turned the Saturation levels all the way down, but kept all of the other settings the same:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EXIF View Post

File: - C:\\PICTURES\\2007\\0710 - October 2007\\IMG_1192.JPG

ShutterSpeedValue - 1/2 seconds
ApertureValue - F 7.10
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Low , -4
Sharpness - High , +3

Screenshot with same settings except change camera Saturation to minimum (-4):
f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds


Oops... that camera setting loses too much saturation.

So stay tuned as I try to adjust the camera settings to get closer to the reference frame. Next I'll try Saturation -2 instead of -4.
post #499 of 5478
Interesting...those shots really make me curious about what it really looks like in person.
post #500 of 5478
I zeroed out the camera's "Standard" Sharpness setting and then I set Saturation to 0 then -1...

Screenshot with same settings except change camera Saturation to "Normal" (0):
Quote:
Originally Posted by EXIF View Post

Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal

f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds (Saturation=0)


Screenshot with same settings except change camera Saturation to "Low" (-1):
f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds (Saturation -1)


The original reference frame, resized to width=800 for easier comparison:


So, Saturation 0 or -1 looks pretty good.

Next experiments...
- vary ISO (100, 200, 400, 800)
- vary Av
- vary shutter speed

I've got to capture the detail in his dreadlocks... it's on the screen. And I might have to switch off AWB.
post #501 of 5478
Some more quickies, using the same settings...
Contrast = Normal
Saturation = Normal
Sharpness = Normal
f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 0.5 seconds:









The original reference frames are in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11344917

This really is a lot easier than swapping blu-rays. And it's easily repeatable if anyone else wants to try the exact same scene.
post #502 of 5478
I bumped up the brightness on the projector a few clicks to get some more detail in his dreadlocks. But I decreased the exposure time a little bit to compensate (1/2 sec down to 1/3 sec)...

f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 1/3 second:


Reference frame extracted from blu-ray:


The White Balance is still different (the original seems to have a yellow haze to it).

I also tried various ISO and Av settings, but on a tripod, the end results look the same, especially when reduced to web size. If I double the ISO (e.g. 400 to 800) and half the exposure time (e.g. 1/2 sec to 1/4 sec), the resulting screenshots are pretty much the same.
post #503 of 5478
Clarence, how does it compare in person with the jpeg? In other words, in person does it have that yellow haze or is it more like your screenshot. Just wondering whether it's your camera or video setup that's reducing the "yellow haze" (as you put it).

I wonder what Cliff's stack looks like with the dreadlocks. He seems to get a lot of low IRE detail. Cliff, where are you!
post #504 of 5478
Clarence can you see all of the dreads when you look at what you are projecting? The screen shot looks like you lost all the low level detail.
post #505 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

Clarence can you see all of the dreads when you look at what you are projecting? The screen shot looks like you lost all the low level detail.

The one with the brightness clicked up is a bit better. I think it's hard to capture low level detail with a camera... anyone?
post #506 of 5478
I think the projected image on my screen looks more like my screenshot than the reference image.

But our eyes can do a good job adjusting to any offset white balance... you can shine a projector on a yellow or pink wall and after a few minutes, white will look white and black will look black.

And digital cameras with AWB also provide compensation... which is why screenshots from d!%!#@| projectors look like they have inky blacks.

And maybe the frame grabbing method that sarah99 used to capture the frame from the blu-ray introduced some color space issues, or it might be impacted by the various software players and overlays that can be used.
post #507 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

.

And maybe the frame grabbing method that sarah99 used to capture the frame from the blu-ray introduced some color space issues, or it might be impacted by the various software players and overlays that can be used.

Possibly, because outside light is usually bluish. I don't see why the scene would be so yellow. And isn't your set calibrated by Terry?
post #508 of 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by NautikaL View Post

Possibly, because outside light is usually bluish. I don't see why the scene would be so yellow. And isn't your set calibrated by Terry?

Terry did the initial setup and helped me install the green and red c-elements. Ken W did the in-depth color calibration.

Just for comparison, I took my last screenshot and post-processed the white balance by adjusting red-10, green-10, and blue-40...

unadjusted screenshot, f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 1/3 second:


Same screenshot with RGB adjusted in PaintShopPro, f/7.1 at ISO 400 for 1/3 second:


Reference frame extracted from blu-ray:
post #509 of 5478
Add more red, take out some green and I think you'd be really close .
post #510 of 5478
Most computer monitors run at D9300, from my experience. The only way all of us are going to be seeing EXACTLY the same thing on these screenshots - at least colorwise - would be for each one of our monitors to be calibrated exactly the same way as each of the others. Either to D9300, computer style, or to D6500 - to be totally accurate - for all of us. And with the accuracy we depend on in our calibrations.

Most computer monitors seem to give much more accuracy to D9300 than they do to D6500, tho I must confess that I have not seen many monitors running at D6500 at all.

So a lot of us are depending on the fidelity of our monitors to ATTEMPT to see the same thing as the others.


That said, I too can see the differences y'all are talking about. On my PC monitor, the reference looks - well - not real faithful to my memory of the movie, let's put it that way.

Clarence's initial shots seem more true to the original, all except for the dreads, which I agree need to show more.

But I would have to be watching something on my calibrated display and compare the same thing to my pc monitor, to know for sure -


Mr Bob
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