The NAD T775/T785 AVRs w/ HDMI 1.3 Thread! - Page 15

Thanks again, John. Time for me to find a dealer.

The NAD doesn't have a scaler/deinterlacer. Doesn't your display have one to convert lower-rez signals to 1080p?

Hi. Has anyone assessed the NAD T775 / 785 against Denon 3808 /4308?

My home theatre will be based on Monitor Audio RS 6,LCR, FX,RS 1 + sub. Primary source will be Sony PS3 for CD, DVD and Blu-Ray.
Replacing my previous Marantz SR-96 receiver with a powerful, musical receiver that supports multichannel PCM over HDMI.

I'm not interested in multi-room, video upscaling, IPOD connectivity. I just want high quality, reliable music and sound over HDMI.

I have been assuming NAD will be the way to go but interested in any perspectives or experiences people have..

thanks, Raymond

I'm very curious to know the same information- ie. how close the sound-quality would be using, for example, a Denon AVR-3808CI as pre-pro (along with my NAD C272 amps) compared to using an NAD T175 as pre-pro. These new Denon's decode the latest HD codec's and more, they are so very tempting. However I really prefer more refined (or "musical") audio quality if the NAD provides that difference.


I definitely think so......

I think there is a growing tendency in Hi-Fi and AV to aim for an 'impressive' sound, ie one with a bright balance. In an AB comparison at a dealer, the brighter system has more apparent detail, so wins out and gets the sale. The customer gets it home and tries to convince himself that this shrill, ear-bleeding sound is OK, maybe starts on the pointless merry-go-round of cable swapping to try and tame it, until he drowns in all the snake-oil.
So far, NAD have avoided this trend, which is why the new range carries my hopes as the best way into HDMI audio. All subject to audition of course. But the fact that they have implemented their own Audissey target curve (instead of just including Audissey to tick the box) speaks volumes to me.

None of the NAD rec'rs have a video processor for deinterlacing or scaling. NAD sensibly leaves that to the sources and the display device.
You don't need three video processors in the signal path.

Thanks for the clear response but no, which is why I use an Anthem today. It's true that most lower end components do have a passable scaler but a NAD plus a separate external scaler is a prescription for disaster in routing the new audio formats and video scaling in different paths. It's too bad because the specs on the NAD AVRs and PrePro are awesome otherwise.

NAD is more concerned about sound rather then video. I personally want a receiver that gives me great sound not upconversion. I would think those of us that are into both video and sound would not want to compromise with the audio portion of your setup by being concerned with video. For video there are other options. I have a Pioneer Plasma Elite that does the deinterlacing/scaling and looks beautiful. Remember that if you are using your receiver to upscale then it is just another conversion taking place before you actually see the picture. Just my two cents.

Has anyone received the T785 yet? My local dealer is telling me a couple more weeks until he gets them in. Any reviews yet?

On the first page of this thread, there is a comparison between the 765 and the 3808. Of course it was at a dealer so there is no guarantee that both units were set up the same but the review does tend to confirm NAD's reputation for building amps that can handle 'difficult' speakers.

If you go to www.ecoustics.com and look under Surround Sound Rec'rs for reviews of NADs, you will find only glowing comments about the sound, quite different from the comments on Onkyos, Denons, Pioneers, etc. In one review, the sound of a NAD rec'r was rated equal to separates costing $7000 (if I remember correctly). I posted links to these reviews earlier in this thread. Try searching for ecoustics to find them.

rudolpht- Just out of interest, what 1080p display do you have that does not deinterlace or upscale?

According to the Website - they are all now on the ship

Not the US web site, unless I missed it. Could we have a link to the UK web site with that info?

I missed it. Thanks!

The above ecoustics article is not what is in the link, which specifically mentions shipping now.

I believe NAD posted that page on their website nearly two months ago (before the recent announced delays).

No,

They have replaced the 'Launching this Season' with 'now shipping'

oh, I see. That's good, thanks........

hmm, interesting question. I was not aware of this, but it makes sense. I can answer this a couple of ways...

first, I have not noticed much appreciable difference between the bass levels of the bitstream DD track and LPCM track of the same movie. I can think of 4 possible reasons for this: 1.) because the player (in my case a PS3) passes the LFE channel of the LPCM track with the appropriate boost applied; 2.) The NAD is applying a boost to LPCM LFE; 3.) The Audyssey equalizer processes the signal in real-time and applies an appropriate level to the LFE, regardless of input level and lastly, 4.) the original LPCM soundtrack has a natively higher gain on the LFE channel. (#4 is pure speculation as I don't know if it is even possible to pass an LPCM signal with differing levels on each digital channel.)

Now, I know I said there is not much difference. In my case I have always felt that the bass is stronger with LPCM, not the other way around. I feel it is most likely the PS3 compensating here, because I noticed when I had my previous processor, a B&K Reference 30 (which of course could not process LPCM, but could process a LPCM stereo down-mix over coax or toslink), that the bass was always stronger when switching from a DD bitstream to a LPCM stereo down-mix. The LPCM mix was always deeper, tighter, louder, and more clarified. That same impression holds today. Of course, the audyssey clouds things a little bit. I could do a better A/B comparison with my old processor, actually, because it made no equalization or room-compensation. The proof in the case of the Reference 30 was very simple -- when switching back and forth, the LPCM stereo downmix rattled my projector screen frame where it made contact with the wall screws, the DD bitstream did not. The only constant in all of this is my PS3, so as I said, I suspect it is a compensation being performed in software on the PS3.

I'll put it another way: to me, although comparing the different versions of a soundtrack is a very subjective thing, I always feel that a LPCM or Dolby TrueHD soundtrack sounds far superior to DD or DTS tracks. Is the bass level of the LFE channel actually higher when I'm listening to LPCM, or is it just the deeper, more well-defined bass of LPCM that I'm noticing? I don't really know, to be perfectly honest. I don't care, though, because to my ears it is still far superior. Will you be happy if you're sitting there with a SPL meter? I can't say, but I can tell you that to me there is very little lacking in the performance of the 775, and that goes for the entire audible range.

John

If you want my opinion (and you're going to get it anyway ), I would tell you not to give in to the lure of receiver-based HD codecs. There are two reasons I can give you for this:

1.) unless you have had access to far more cutting-edge equipment than the rest of us and have heard enough A/B comparisons of player decoding vs. processor/receiver decoding to make a definitive judgment over which is better, I can't think of one reason why you would find player decoding to be a dissatisfying experience. To put it bluntly, the limiting factor here is not the codec, it's the source material! If you have an HD source it is always going to sound better than the compressed version of the same, regardless of who is decoding what.

2.) Even with the knowledge implied in #1 above, if you, like me, are a sucker for new technology and assume that performing the decoding in the processor/receiver must still be inherently superior, you are still covered with the NAD because, eventually, you will be able to upgrade your unit with this capability.

in all seriousness the truth is the rest of the signal path is just as important, if not more, than what is doing the decoding. with the NAD you have the rest covered. isn't it easier to add the decoding later, rather than having to upgrade the rest of your components because you have something that sounds lousy? That's my contention anyway...

John

well, yes and no. I haven't tested this specifically with a CD or an SACD. However, I stumbled upon the likely answer anyway: when booting up, the PS3 outputs audio, both in the form of a startup sound (an orchestra tuning) and in the clicks with each movement of the interface focus. These things play, regardless of whether or not my projector is on, so it is likely fine. I'll try to remember to do a full test soon.

oh, and of course the only connection from my PS3 is an HDMI cable...

John

Thanks again, John. I await your "full test" with interest, although your findings to date on this issue have certainly been reassuring.

yeah I'm not giving-in, mostly because I know the NAD will most-likely sound better for music (which is #1 priority for me). Morevoer, the Yamaha RX-V2700 receiver I'm currently using as pre-pro sounds pretty good for music, and I'm thinking the new Denon (AVR-3808CI) could'nt be that much better sounding for music (if it is better).


To be honest I have'nt had enough actual experience comparing player-decoding and receiver/pre-pro decoding to say which method is better. I just want the capability to "play" these new formats, HD resolution is satisfying enough for me regardless of the method-ie. via-direct bitstream or decoded/converted multi-channel LPCM.


true.......

John,

"I can tell you that to me there is very little lacking in the performance of the 775, and that goes for the entire audible range."

That notwithstanding, have you given any thought to trying the Audyssey Pro?

The frustration over lack of support for these formats has gone too far for customers who have ordered or are considering ordering the NAD T175 pre-pro & T785, T775 AV receivers. Most of us want this and believe these formats have 'become fully useful standards of high-definition discs or other recordings'.

Therefore, this petition is being developed to insist inclusion of Dolby True HD/DTS Master Audio.

Please provide constructive input & indicate whether you wish to be included & what name you would like on the petition.

**Please submit your name & address by PM ONLY to ensure privacy**


NAD has been informed of this action & have been invited to view/participate in the process.

Thank You

Petition to upgrade NAD T175, T785, T775 to decode Dolby True HD/DTS Master Audio

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=943819

You should remove the T765 from your petition since it does not process HDMI audio.

Edit: I see you've now done so.

Does the OSD only work for setup? Or, does it also display volume levels during volume changes, for example?

If it displays volume levels only in 720p, this is problematic if you change during a 1080 signal. Especially, if you use any kind of automatic signal processing on the display.

It displays volume changes and other important system settings as they are accessed/changed, and does so without changing the output resolution. Remember that there is no video processing/scaling going on here. (also note that an option is included to turn this feature off if you do not want to see these pop-up on the screen during a movie, for example.) Again, for any blu-ray playback, my projector is in either 1080p/24fps or 1080p/60fps mode and I have never had a problem with either the OSD or the aforementioned pop-ups.

yes, but it's not in the budget for this year.

Hey gang,
My new NAD 775 seems to be having a handshaking issue with my new Samsung 1400 BD player. Can you confirm where the issue is? What component is bad?

I connect the BD player to the 775 via HDMI and then the 775 to my Samsung 4671 with HDMI. When I change output resolution of the BD from 1080i to 1080p, I get snow, screeching sounds and general mayhem on the TV. It reminds me of 40 years ago when you would adjust your antenna to improve TV reception, but then went too far and lost the signol entirely. After a few minutes of this things start to clear up and then the picture comes in. But it still flickers sometimes and pops the speakers connected to the 775. I get none of this when I switch the BD player back to 1080i, although I still get an occasional pop when I skip to a previous song while listening to an audio CD on the BD player. Very annoying. I don't know which component is generating the pop.

At first I thought it might be the cable, but I've tried three different cables (1.3) from two manufactures with no difference. And when I connect the BD player directly to the TV using same HDMI cable and then switch to 1080p, it performs like a charm. So this appears to be a problem with the receiver and with 1080p. I don't have any other sources except the HD cable box, and there seems to be no issues with that when connected to the 775.

So my question to you is what other diagnostics can I perform to confirm the problem is with the NAD? I'd hate to take it back for another and then find out the problem was really with the BD player. I recently upgraded to the latest firmware on the BD player, so that's taken care of.

Thanks

Are the cables you tried rated for 1080P over the distance you're running?