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*Official* Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 *UB* - Page 2

post #31 of 3166
Optics excluded, but in brightness, resolution, CR, and VP this Epson looks to be = or > the Qualia 004, all for less than the price of a Qualia replacement bulb! When was the Qualia released? 2004? If that's true then it took, what? About three years for a full blown PJ to eclipse the Qualia for the price of a Qualia bulb. Go technology! Keep on truckin'!
post #32 of 3166
Looks like a very interesting and perhaps breakthrough product.

It will be interesting to see what availability will be like at introduction in ~December. It's always entertaining to watch the early adopters frothing when they can't have their unit delivered by December 1st. I wouldn't count on rebates or discounts right away if it does turn out to be a revolutionary product.

Cheers!
post #33 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post

typically, how much below MSRP do Epson projectors street for? Would it be possible it streets for ~$2000?


Well it's certainly in the ball park. Imo the writing is on the wall 1080p is about to get ultra competitive. $999 unit's with in 6-12 months. They may not be the quality of the 1080 UB but they will be just a HD70 with a 1080p chip inside. All I care about in this announcement is that LCD blacks have made a true step forward and if so then LCD is now a serious contender against DLP for my money.
post #34 of 3166
Looks like I'll be able to take my time putting together the home theatre! This thing could be amazing and at the right price. Hopefully we'll get some more information from CEDIA on it and comparable competing products!

I need my blacks and lens shift!
post #35 of 3166
So where/when will be able to pre-order this bad boy??!!
post #36 of 3166
Thread Starter 
Quote:


...if the 1080p UB had a LED bulb, it would probably be the last projector most of us would ever need

This is of course a matter of personal choice.

I, for one, have been waiting with the purchase of a serious projector (something well above $1000), for many years now. I decided that my point of entry will be when a projector will come out, that will be at least as good as the best cinema theater I ever saw, for a reasonable price. The first projector that did it for me, was the Mitsubishi HC3100, except I could see rainbows (5x wheel), and also some slight screen door at 1.3x screen widths.

Now, finally, after many years of waiting, the Powerlite UB seems to be the ticket. Yes I might be hyping it, but it simply seems right in every way possible: no rainbows, great blacks and contrast, no screen door, 1080p, 3 years warranty including lamp (at least in europe), $2699 MSRP. I simply couldn't ask for a better deal for my first high quality projector.

Yes, CEDIA 2008 will bring better deals, with better features, but I know the Powelite UB is something I can live with (at least for the 3 years of warranty), because I never had problems going to the best Cinema I know (and I've been doing it for many years).

Quote:


It's always entertaining to watch the early adopters frothing when they can't have their unit delivered by December 1st.

As much as I'm hyping, I will not be the first one to order, not before I read the first serious review of this projector (which could come only from Cine4home or Projectorreviews). This deal looks almost "too good", something might be wrong and we need a careful eye to look into it (but at least according to preliminary opinion of cine4home, this seems to be the real deal).
post #37 of 3166
Thread Starter 
The plot thickens:

Apparently, like last year, Epson is also releasing a PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 UB Projector.

http://www.cybertheater.com/epson-po...-ub-projector/

This version's MSRP is $3999.

Now the question is what is the difference between the Pro version ($3999) and the non-pro version ($2699). I think that last year the differences between the pro and non-pro, were not related to picture quality... I hope this will remain the same this year too. I'm pretty sure though that the 3 year warranty will be only for the Pro version, which is kind of a bummer, but I hope the main differences end here.
post #38 of 3166
It would be truly outstanding product if it indeed did have excellent blacks. Especially at this price point.

Can anyone tell me what would make this LCD have better blacks than any previous LCD??? That is the real question here. Its hard to imagine that one product has achieved or figured out how to get good black levels with a LCD without any such talk of new LCD technology achieving this.

I am pulling for this to be true. If so, I'll be first to pre-order but like others have said I'll need full reviews. JVC RS1 was so overhyped and had outstanding reviews for months now all of a sudden people don't like the colors it produces.
post #39 of 3166
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Can anyone tell me what would make this LCD have better blacks than any previous LCD??? That is the real question here. Its hard to imagine that one product has achieved or figured out how to get good black levels with a LCD without any such talk of new LCD technology achieving this.

It's not hard to imagine at all, considering we are talking about Epson.

Epson is the manufacturer behind the LCD panels in Panasonic/Sanyo/Mitsubishi/etc. projectors.

Each year Epson offers their LCD panels to all the projector manufacturers (D5, D6, D7...).

This year Epson decided to play it differently. They did sell their new D7 panels to all the rest of the manufacturers, but decided to keep the real gem only for their projector - the ability to dramatically increase contrast ratio.

In the following image, Epson tries to explain how they did it:



Epson found a way to create an LCD panel, with improved light polarization (I've read in Popular Science that in order to do that, Epson are using some sort of volatile carrier solution when they pour the LCD crystals, and after the evaporation of the carrier solution, the LCD crystals stay in a very ordered state, that keep the light more polarized, and hence allow the high contrast ratio). Cine4home claims that the JVC RS1's high contrast ratio, is also due to an improved polarization of the light.
post #40 of 3166
Wow. Then this could very well be not a bunch of hype then. Problem is everyone will want one and it'll be back ordered for 3-6 months.
post #41 of 3166
Thread Starter 
You are right. On the one hand, Epson seem to have created a revolutionary product, but on the other hand, priced it as the lowest 1080p projector. Now it remains to be seen if they can deliver it in enough quantity to supply demand.

If Epson won't be able to supply demand, then they might have made a terrible move here not letting Panasonic/Sanyo/Mitsubishi enjoy the Ultra Black feature in their projectors (which probably feel pretty much betrayed by Epson).
post #42 of 3166
I've had the 810 for about 4 months and this projector rocks. if the UB is any better than this I can't wait. For a 720p projector, everyone that comes over to view it. I can't get them to leave. Simply jaw-dropping.
post #43 of 3166
This unit sounds awesome! I was about ready to order an HD80, boy am I glad I waited for Cedia!
post #44 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

It's not clear whether the 1080p UB will have a dynamic iris, though with the stated specs, I would expect it to have one.


It HAS to have one in order to get 50,000 CR from 4,500 native!
post #45 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

You are right. On the one hand, Epson seem to have created a revolutionary product, but on the other hand, priced it as the lowest 1080p projector. Now it remains to be seen if they can deliver it in enough quantity to supply demand.

If Epson won't be able to supply demand, then they might have made a terrible move here not letting Panasonic/Sanyo/Mitsubishi enjoy the Ultra Black feature in their projectors (which probably feel pretty much betrayed by Epson).

Well maybe because they aren't selling these things to those other manufacturers, they'll have a lot available for themselves. They must be up to something.
post #46 of 3166
I am looking to upgrade to a 1080p projector but have hesitated because I don't think the increase in PQ over my 720p projector would justify the price.

I currently own a Sony HS51 projector. Do you honestly think that this Epson will be a significant enough improvement over my current Sony HS51 to justify a $2700 expenditure?

My Sony HS51 throws an excellent image using HD OTA sources as well as HD DVDs. I'm just not sure how much better it could get and if it would be worth three grand to upgrade.
post #47 of 3166
Thread Starter 
ricwhite,

Imo If you are happy with what you have, don't upgrade.
post #48 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricwhite View Post

I am looking to upgrade to a 1080p projector but have hesitated because I don't think the increase in PQ over my 720p projector would justify the price.

I currently own a Sony HS51 projector. Do you honestly think that this Epson will be a significant enough improvement over my current Sony HS51 to justify a $2700 expenditure?

My Sony HS51 throws an excellent image using HD OTA sources as well as HD DVDs. I'm just not sure how much better it could get and if it would be worth three grand to upgrade.

I have a Sony HS60 and also am pretty pleased with it. Of course I know how it could be better, but it doesn't bother me unless I really look for flaws, which will be present even in the Epson.

While I think these projectors with super high contrast ratios will look good, many have native contrast ratios of a dlp unit. The DI is doing most of the work, and coming from a HS60 owner, I know how this can be good and bad.

Personally, I'm trying my best to hold out for something like the RS-1, or RS-2, with very high native contrast ratios. Of course they are out of my price range at this moment. Give it 2 years, and something like that, or better will be around $1,500.

As I said, I'm trying my best to hold out because something like this Epson is very tempting.

The way I look at it, the Epson is probably 5 times better than my Sony in contrast, at least. Sony: 1,000:1 native and 10,000:1 with DI. Epson 4,500:1 native and 50,000:1 with DI. That sounds like a fairly significant improvement, not to mention it's also 1080p and probably brighter.

If I never experienced the on/off of a crt projector/rptv, maybe those numbers would do it for me. But because I have, the bar is quite a bit higher for me in regards to native contrast.

Here I am jabbering on at why I can wait for a high native contrast pj to hit my price range, but when something like this Epson hits $1,500, I'll see how patient I really am.
post #49 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

Cine4home did a report on the TW2000/Powelite UB. You can check it out here:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...ldpremiere.htm

The TW2000/Powerlite UB will have a native contrast of 4500:1, and with dynamic iris, 50,000:1. Cine4home saw a demo of the unit with the dynamic iris *disabled*, and was VERY impressed with the black levels. Here are his words after seeing the TW2000/Powerlite UB, in action (with the dynamic iris off. Bablefished from german):







In my opninion, you SHOULD be worried. In fact, if you can take your unit back for a refund (or for a backorder on the Powerlite UB), then by all means, DO IT.

The Powerlite UB seems to be the biggest thing that happened to LCD projection, since the introduction of the first 720p LCD.

In the follwing graph, Epson is showing how dramatic the change in black levels with the Powerlite UB



Believe me, you do NOT want to have the 2006 model, while you can get the 2007 model.

The Powerlite UB is the first LCD projector to successfully address the weakest point of LCD projectors - native black levels.


Pardon me for being too knit-picky...but what exactly are the units on the vertical axis? (DEEP?) Would that be inches, ft, miles, etc...jk, this graph is laughable.
post #50 of 3166
Let's just hope they get the colors right.
post #51 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Let's just hope they get the colors right.

you must be thinking of the pearl and the rs1 - lcds have been getting a close to perfect film color as any projector since the ae900 from panasonic, increased with the tinkering they enable in the ae1000. If LCD has one fundamental performance strength over lcos and dlp it is color reproduction.
post #52 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88 View Post

you must be thinking of the pearl and the rs1 - lcds have been getting a close to perfect film color as any projector since the ae900 from panasonic, increased with the tinkering they enable in the ae1000. If LCD has one fundamental performance strength over lcos and dlp it is color reproduction.

Naw, I'm just hoping they don't screw it up. JVC's projectors had great color performance until the RS1 - maybe to compete with Sony's oversaturated wow factor?
post #53 of 3166
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Pardon me for being too knit-picky...but what exactly are the units on the vertical axis? (DEEP?) Would that be inches, ft, miles, etc...jk, this graph is laughable.

Units on Y axis are "amount of projected light at 0 IRE", aka "Deepness of black".
post #54 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepostman View Post

I've had the 810 for about 4 months and this projector rocks. if the UB is any better than this I can't wait. For a 720p projector, everyone that comes over to view it. I can't get them to leave. Simply jaw-dropping.


Me too. I wonder if Epson will give us a discount if we want to upgrade to the new one.
post #55 of 3166
I was DAYS away from pulling the trigger on this one as my theater construction starts this Sunday. I will definitely wait for this one.

Problem is, now how am i supposed to figure out what screen size is best for me before building without a projector?! Doh!
post #56 of 3166
I wonder who the best retailer would be to pre-order from that would give you the best chance of getting it close to the release date and not backorder.
post #57 of 3166
So I wonder if we will get lucky and to have this projector to include an image squish for an anamorphic lens. They list a panamorph lens under accesories. I would hope they would include a built in option for it.

This one has me excited. I was going to go w/ the Epson 400, but always had my eye on the HC1080, it just didn't have the brightness for the large screen I am building. I can't wait to see if it stacks up to the hype. I was planing on getting my new theater functional by Nov, guess I'll have to wait a little longer now.
post #58 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

The Epson TW2000 that is being discussed in the Above $3000 forum, is going to be called in the US "Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 *UB*", it is going to hit stores in December, with a MSRP of $2699.

http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...under_3k/C157/

It is amazing that we are going to get such quality (4500:1 native CR!), for such relatively low price.

Looks like they've edited the article above. Now it reads "Originally, the company had released a sub-$3K price, but has since retracted that offer and is working on finalizing the details."
post #59 of 3166
oh great, watch it be like 5k now
post #60 of 3166
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Looks like they've edited the article above. Now it reads "Originally, the company had released a sub-$3K price, but has since retracted that offer and is working on finalizing the details."

Finally, things are starting to make sense.

I'm sure that Epson got very angry calls from Panasonic/Mitsubishi/Sanyo in the last two days, telling Epson that if the price of the Powerlite UB isn't going up at least $1000-2000 USD, their business relations are off.

I can surelly understand Panasonic/Mitsubishi/Sanyo, they are in an awkward situation, having much inferior 1080p products than the UB, at more expensive price than the UB...

So, it seems Panasonic/Mitsubishi/Sanyo win, and we lose.

I did mention earlier that the Powerlite UB deal seemed "too good", I guess at least we got a glimpse of the kind of deals we'll get at Cedia 2008.

My guess is $4000 USD for the UB home edition, and $5000 USD for the UB Pro edition. This should allow Panasonic/Mitsubishi/Sanyo to sell their inferior 1080p units, assuming their street prices will be low enoug.
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