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Pioneer to launch BDP-95FD Blu ray player - Page 3

post #61 of 234
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madkaw View Post

The way the disks are authored the decoding has to be done inside the player anyway correct? Even if it is a 1.3 with bitstream output the disk will not allow the player to send the raw to the receiver.
If this is the case, which i think it is then any player that does not have onboard decoding is a waste of time.

What? If the player has 1.3 and bitstream enabled in the firmware the DTS MA or TrueHD or whatever will be output. It has nothing to do with the disc, its about the hardware/software of the player.
post #62 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post

I find it strange that a announced player has it profile the 95FD. But there is still no listing for a player being sold the p1400. So I would think there is still hope that this player might support 1.1.

No. Again, the BDP-95FD is a grace period player.
post #63 of 234
Pioneer is going to face a major backlash for announcing new players within a short time span with extremely high pricing. They launched BDP-LX70 (Japan version of bdp-94) 3 months back. The performance sucked big time especially because of lethargic operation speeds. The player was also priced at $1000 approx. Now the announced BDP-LX80 (BDP-95) is slated for Oct'Nov release and is priced $2000.
post #64 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Spackman View Post

What? If the player has 1.3 and bitstream enabled in the firmware the DTS MA or TrueHD or whatever will be output. It has nothing to do with the disc, its about the hardware/software of the player.

The confusion arises from multiple (and I do mean many) posts that indicate that a disc must be authored in a certain way to enable bitstream raw data output in addition to the player's ability to output bitstream raw data.

Frankly I'm confused by this also, give all the posts that indicate contradictory "facts" about this. That's one of the problems with forums--so many post info as facts when the poster really has no clue, and then readers pick up on this and get thoroughly confused.

So, for the record, can you, or anyone else, authoritatively and factually tell us what the story is regarding requirements for outputing the raw data. Obviously 1.3a and a capable player is needed (along with a receiver capable of decoding the data). Are there any authoring requirements for a given disk to be able to output it's data as a raw bitstream?
post #65 of 234
Thread Starter 
I can't. I have seen Dolby digital plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA stream from both an Integra HD DVD player and an A35 from both a Dolby demo disc and a DTS demo disc. But I cannot say whether these discs needed to be authored to allow it.

I don't see why the disc would have to be authored to allow it to be output as bitstream. It just doesn make sense that the disc would not allow this. I think its just whether the player is software enabled to send the stream out the HDMI port or not.
post #66 of 234
Same form factor like all other models.

And don't be deceived by the numerous model numbers (like BDP-LX70 for Asia and Europe; BDP-HD50 for Canada, blah blah).

Seriously, this model number bull is just sickening. Most likely, Pioneer just changes the model numbers for respective regions but in reality, IT IS JUST THE SAME PLAYER FROM THE SAME FACTORY LINE FROM JAPAN.

Heck, all the features are the same across-the-board (1080p24 support, DLNA, CD-playback, HDMI 1.3, etc etc)

Which is really why I don't see the point. We should just have a certain electronics manufacturer only have ONE set of model numbers of their respective product. Which reminds me of Samsung model numbers for their LCD TV.

In simple terms, people from USA and Canada won't know what an LA-40R81B is in Asia, Europe, Middle East, Australia and New Zealand until they find out that it is equivalent to their LN-T4053H back at home.

Same goes with the LA-70F91B/LN-70F96BD (your famed LN-T5281F back in stateside except the 70 inch model is only for Asia and Europe and won't be in US until Q4) Same also applies with the LA-52F81B/LA-52F86BD (aka as your LNT4671F over there in Americas). Gawd, that took me seven days before I could understand what people were referring to as new Samsung LCD TVs here in the forum (since AVS is mostly made of forumers from the North American continent)

So this amount of confusion is just........beyond what I can imagine. So my Samsung should just revert to "UNIVERSAL" globally-implied model numbers or if they can't do, it would be better for Samsung GLOBAL to set-up an international equivalency chart for their respective products.

Because I mean, why should a company release so many bloody model numbers (like each teritorry having their own model codes) if they are just selling the ONE SAME product all over the world???

/rant over
post #67 of 234
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post11569664
I was wondering because according to this thread, it is confirmed that the disk is authored to only let it be decoded in the player and not sent bitstream. No matter if the player wants to send it the disk will not let it. It is getting very confusing which is the case.
post #68 of 234
The month of October (or September if Toshiba ever gets that firmware out) could turn out very ugly. There will be some vey upset folks out there...
post #69 of 234
Everything that I have read about bitstreaming advanced audio codecs is that the discs MUST be authored to allow them to be passed and decoded outside of the player.
post #70 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The month of October (or September if Toshiba ever gets that firmware out) could turn out very ugly. There will be some vey upset folks out there...

Please elaborate
post #71 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by madkaw View Post

Please elaborate

Indeed. I have no idea of what joerod is talking about.
post #72 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMan34 View Post

Everything that I have read about bitstreaming advanced audio codecs is that the discs MUST be authored to allow them to be passed and decoded outside of the player.

Clearly this is a source of confusion for nearly everyone, including myself. If I am not mistaken the player should be able to output bitstream HiRes audio. However, this would not function with the additional features like PiP or multiple audio sources used during the same playback (IE DTS-HD MA with the director commentary overlay). I would think the player could output straight audio feeds (so you could have a newer HDMI 1.3 receiver decode the audio while watching a movie but not use many of the additional features). I think you would then have to change the settings on the player to decode the audio and output via PCM if you wanted to use the additional features. That would mean for a player like this you would not be able to use DTS-HD MA with the director commentary (but this wouldn't be a problem for me as I want to watch a movie with the DTS MA feed but if I need to get the director commentary I don't mind going to a different audio stream - even if it is lossy because the director commentary would eliminate the need for me to have the best surround soundtrack). Can anyone clarify this. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong if you have a better explaination/source. Thanks.

Edit: To clarify my thoughts, I don't think this has anything to do with how the disc is authored. I don't believe a player in the near future will have the ability to decode the advance audio soundtrack and mix that together with the additional features and then encode it back to a lossless advance audio form to be output bitstream to the AVR. Is this correct?
post #73 of 234
I was just commenting on how- if and when the players start sending HBR audio to the receivers that can decode it what will happen if we get there and find out the discs won't allow it... There will be many disappointed people out there...
post #74 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I was just commenting on how- if and when the players start sending HBR audio to the receivers that can decode it what will happen if we get there and find out the discs won't allow it... There will be many disappointed people out there...

I agree but I am confused as to how a disc "wouldn't allow" the bitstream output. I dont' see how a disc would stop a player from choosing to send the bitstream to an internal decoder vs. an external decoder. I would be able to understand some features not functioning with this however (as I mentioned in my previous post).
post #75 of 234
As I understand the situation w/ HD DVD their is an "advanced mode" and "basic mode" (or something like that). If the disc is authored in advanced mode it is done to allow certain options that wouldn't be feasible off-base (PiP, certain "button noises", etc). I also read that most, if not all, HD DVD published to date are in the advanced mode. Finally, again IIRC, there has been a recent revision to the spec allowing a 'straight play' of the main soundtrack regardless of disc authoring, which Tosh is implementing in firmware (or has already done so, I forget which). This is similar to how the spec was changed to allow a 'pure' mode which forces 1080p/24, ignoring flags, which is supposed to be coming in a firmware update.

The way this relates to BD I'm not quite sure. I have read that BD doesn't have these modes, and the existing discs are not restricted in this fashion. However I also read that when discs supporting advanced profiles are offered they will have to do something to allow a "straigt feed" of the main soundtrack; otherwise interesting things could happen with PiP, etc.

Not sure how accurate all of this is, but that's a quick overview of what I remember reading (a lot of it from posts on this forum).
post #76 of 234
Thank you for the clarification. Any more information would be greatly appreciated by those of us looking for new BR/HD-DVD players to function with our new HDMI 1.3 AVRs.
post #77 of 234
I will know soon with the XA2 firmware, an Onkyo 805 HD DVD player purchase and/or the newer Pioneer... Either way I will know within the next few weeks! And that will be for both formats...
post #78 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post

Same form factor like all other models.

And don't be deceived by the numerous model numbers (like BDP-LX70 for Asia and Europe; BDP-HD50 for Canada, blah blah).

Seriously, this model number bull is just sickening. Most likely, Pioneer just changes the model numbers for respective regions but in reality, IT IS JUST THE SAME PLAYER FROM THE SAME FACTORY LINE FROM JAPAN.

Heck, all the features are the same across-the-board (1080p24 support, DLNA, CD-playback, HDMI 1.3, etc etc)

Which is really why I don't see the point. We should just have a certain electronics manufacturer only have ONE set of model numbers of their respective product. Which reminds me of Samsung model numbers for their LCD TV.

In simple terms, people from USA and Canada won't know what an LA-40R81B is in Asia, Europe, Middle East, Australia and New Zealand until they find out that it is equivalent to their LN-T4053H back at home.

Same goes with the LA-70F91B/LN-70F96BD (your famed LN-T5281F back in stateside except the 70 inch model is only for Asia and Europe and won't be in US until Q4) Same also applies with the LA-52F81B/LA-52F86BD (aka as your LNT4671F over there in Americas). Gawd, that took me seven days before I could understand what people were referring to as new Samsung LCD TVs here in the forum (since AVS is mostly made of forumers from the North American continent)

So this amount of confusion is just........beyond what I can imagine. So my Samsung should just revert to "UNIVERSAL" globally-implied model numbers or if they can't do, it would be better for Samsung GLOBAL to set-up an international equivalency chart for their respective products.

Because I mean, why should a company release so many bloody model numbers (like each teritorry having their own model codes) if they are just selling the ONE SAME product all over the world???

/rant over

When it comes to TV's, they have to have different model numbers. That is because in US we have differnt tuners, voltage and other features than Europe or even Japan. That 70 inch Samsung LCD in US is a lot different than the one sold in Asia or Europe. As far as players, they could use same model number because players do not differ that much. Samsung does not even sell TV's or players in Japan. They only sell some computer products. Same goes for LG.
post #79 of 234
Didn't we used to have a Pioneer insider particpating here on AVS...Chris something? If anyone knows if he is still around maybe we could get some answers!
post #80 of 234
im a noob here...can someone tell me what 1.1 is? or supply a link where it talks about it?
post #81 of 234
post #82 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMan34 View Post

Supposedly the reason for no DTS-HD MA internal decoding is the processors that are in BD players or even HD-DVD players, they can not handle the power behind MA...but that should be chaning soon, especially with the annoucement of the Denon players with the new powerful processor.

This is my understanding too. The processing power required for DTS-HD MA is significant. I find that a bit useless considering that most BD titles are providing lossless tracks or True HD Lossless track anyway.

I will not upgrade my BDP-HD1 until pioneers give us a bd 1.1 out of the box compliant player (not a promise of an upgrade).
post #83 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I don't know, you may want to see if they are releasing the 96HD in December before getting it... I mean, this is their third unit in 10 months!

This is getting a bit too much and seriously hearts the resale value. I have the feeling that they are going through some phases of cost reductions.
post #84 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Spackman View Post

Not going to support 1.1 now or later. Does not have the hardware. It will output bitstream high res audio, but thats about the only advantage I see over the previous models.

Also, I turned off one of the units, pressed open, it took 59 seconds to spit the tray out what happened, I thought these would be faster than older models.

Chris? Did I miss something? Were the units surrounding your booth prototypes that are not representative of the production unit?

Than I will pass on that one and wait for the next one.
post #85 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The month of October (or September if Toshiba ever gets that firmware out) could turn out very ugly. There will be some vey upset folks out there...

I am sure Toshiba is doing is best to put the BD player crowd in troubles.
post #86 of 234
Can someone please help me understand is there a difference between bitstream output of DTS-HD/MA and internal decoding of the same? and if so, what is it, and how does it affect someone like myself who would be connecting the player through the 5.1 analog connections?
post #87 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson57 View Post

Can someone please help me understand is there a difference between bitstream output of DTS-HD/MA and internal decoding of the same? and if so, what is it, and how does it affect someone like myself who would be connecting the player through the 5.1 analog connections?

My understanding of this situation is that the bitstream output MUST be decoded in your receiver, since it is not decoded in the player. Your receiver must then be HDMI 1.3 compatible to accept the bitstream for decoding.

Using 5.1 analog outputs, the DTS-HD/MA MUST be decoded in the player (no available players that decode MA internally quite yet: the new Denon 3800CI seems to be the first to promise an internal decoder).

Anyone with more detailed information on this, please chime in.

Lee
post #88 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFC View Post

My understanding of this situation is that the bitstream output MUST be decoded in your receiver, since it is not decoded in the player. Your receiver must then be HDMI 1.3 compatible to accept the bitstream for decoding.

Using 5.1 analog outputs, the DTS-HD/MA MUST be decoded in the player (no available players that decode MA internally quite yet: the new Denon 3800CI seems to be the first to promise an internal decoder).

Anyone with more detailed information on this, please chime in.

Lee

Thanks Lee. I guess the key here is what is actually doing the DECODING. So correct my understanding here if this is wrong:

If the PLAYER can truly do the decoding internally, than I would be able to use my analog connections and get either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA. If the player sends bitstream out, than the RECEIVER must do the decoding, and therefore must be one that has HDMI 1.3 and the ability to decode these formats. Is this correct?
post #89 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson57 View Post

Thanks Lee. I guess the key here is what is actually doing the DECODING. So correct my understanding here if this is wrong:

If the PLAYER can truly do the decoding internally, than I would be able to use my analog connections and get either Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA. If the player sends bitstream out, than the RECEIVER must do the decoding, and therefore must be one that has HDMI 1.3 and the ability to decode these formats. Is this correct?

That is correct.
post #90 of 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

This is my understanding too. The processing power required for DTS-HD MA is significant. I find that a bit useless considering that most BD titles are providing lossless tracks or True HD Lossless track anyway.

Do you have any Fox BD movies? No TrueHD. No PCM. But there is DTS HD MA.
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