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>>Sony KDS-XXA3000<< Settings/Tweaks thread - OWNERS ONLY! - Page 3

post #61 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by aqupunk View Post

Thanks for the settings one question which is the settings for a hidef digital cable box? Is that what the "bell express vu" source is?

Yes. The Bell ExpressVu is a satellite HD PVR receiver.
post #62 of 4486
Hi all,
Got my 60A3000 monday and have been playing with it for a few days.

Calibrated with:
HCFR/i1LT
iScan HD for test patterns(supposed to be perfect output color/white balance)

Main Menu:
Auto 1
Pic 50
Brit 50
Color 54
Hue R3
Color Temp Warm 1

Advanced menu:
Black Corrector off
Gamma off
Clear White off
Color Space standard
Live color HIGH

White Balance:
R Gain 0
G Gain 0
B Gain -11
R Bias 0
G bias 0
B Bias 0

Realizing I just got the i1 and don't really know how to use it yet.
With these settings the CIE chart looks good except yellow is a bit off(red).
The RGB chart is good from 10 IRE up but Delta E looks horrible below 50 IRE.
Color temp is a little low at 10 and 20 IRE but good for the rest.
However the Gamma chart is a wreck, the highest I could get is 2.05 at 70 IRE but the real problem is 40,50, and 60 are at 1.7.

If anybody has an idea how to straighten/raise it I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks Troy
post #63 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qyv10 View Post

... However the Gamma chart is a wreck, the highest I could get is 2.05 at 70 IRE but the real problem is 40,50, and 60 are at 1.7.

If anybody has an idea how to straighten/raise it I would appreciate any advice.

I do not own this set but am somewhat familiar with calibration in general, so this is just an idea. The "gamma" setting usually selects difference gamma curves for the display to use. If the Gamma setting allows difference values besides On/Off, try measuring the gamma curves using a different setting.

You could probably get more info on calibration by posting this in the Calibration forum, particularly in Tom Huffman's thread on using a display's CMS controls. FWIW.
post #64 of 4486
Thanks Don, I should have mentioned that.

It does have gamma settings but anything other then off just lowers gamma worse. Doesn't affect shape just lowers it making the problem worse.

I have been reading his thread and will try working on some more soon.
Unfortunatly I don't have a notebook computer anymore (stolen) so I have to move my big computer over to the TV. big PITA

oh well, what we do to have fun doing this
post #65 of 4486
Double Bummer! Good Luck.
post #66 of 4486
I'm having some geometry issues with my new 60A3000. Anyone know if there's a service menu where we can tweak the geometry? Or am I going to have to exchange the entire set?
post #67 of 4486
Most of the recent Sony HDTVs, including my one year old 70"XBR2, tend to be cold in color temperture and must be adjusted to get to 6500K. Unfortunately, two of Sony's presets (Vivid and Standard) do not have a White Balance feature which limits their usefulness and leaves Custom as an owner's only choice.

I received my 50A3000 last week and was able to rid the set's blue haze by going to Advance Settings and lowering the Blue Gain and Blue Bias by five points, thus bringing it to near perfect color.
post #68 of 4486
Waldo 100 What was somme of Your White Balance Settings at 6500k on Your XBR 2 ? Gain & Bias #'s for Red, Green, Blue ? User or Service Menu ? You say the New A3000 lets You set it for all Vivid,Standard & Custom ? This would be good so everybody would not need to go to the Service Menu...
post #69 of 4486
I don't know why but I love the Detail Enhancer. To me it almost looks extra high def, I have the Detail Enhancer set to High and Sharpness set to 40. If I set the DE back to off the picture looks blurry to me now and gives me a headache. I also think it makes games look soo much better on my PS3. Now what I don't understand is if the CineMotion is set to off and Motion Enhancer set to high. I really don't see much of a difference if the Motion Enhancer was set to off. Now if CineMotion was on and the ME on high then that gives me the "too real" look. But with CM off, I don't see much difference with ME on high...or is that just me?
post #70 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qyv10 View Post

With these settings the CIE chart looks good except yellow is a bit off(red).
The RGB chart is good from 10 IRE up but Delta E looks horrible below 50 IRE.
Color temp is a little low at 10 and 20 IRE but good for the rest.
However the Gamma chart is a wreck, the highest I could get is 2.05 at 70 IRE but the real problem is 40,50, and 60 are at 1.7.

Gamma relates to Y or luminance. Most anything that changes Y in the grayscale will affect gamma. There are a lot of controls that affect grayscale luminance. To answer your question in the other thread, your Y values are fine, but sometimes I think people will make Y relative to maximum Y (1 is then max value) so it's more relevant to discussion for different max Y values.

I've never used live color on my SXRD, but before doing so I would make sure that it didn't affect grayscale and how it affected colors. I would also check what effects the bright auto iris has on the grayscale. If you were to use a manual iris you would probably get more easily measureable and applicable results. You might also get a better contrast ratio and an entirely different gamma if you used a lower iris and raised picture.

Your yellow being off is probably because it's affected by hue. The color decoder controls and hue interact. I've just got started working with the Display LT, but what I've found works easiest is to set hue and hold it then use the color decoder to get green and the secondaries close to right. If that's right or not I don't know, but I was able to get almost all the primaries and secondaries very close to the values in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536


Considering this is the settings thread, has anyone checked out IRISMIN service item with the A3000? I never knew that SXRD had it until I read http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=gonzo but I really like how it can be used to lower the black output of my A2000 SXRD. It helped my contrast ratio a lot so that I no longer have to use the detail enhancer.
post #71 of 4486
Well, did a bunch of work on this thing last night and got it pretty good looking.
My gamma is still low at about 2.05 but I got rid of the big drop at 40,50 and 60 IRE, it's caused by the auto iris. Currently have it set to min. and it is almost straight and is as high as I can get it.

The delta E is now almost perfect at less then 2.5 from 20 to 100.
Color temp is dead on as well.
The only thing off is the secondaries but these are read with an 8 color bar pattern on the screen from my iScan HD. If I use the getgray dvd they are near perfect so I'm discounting these values.

So here are the numbers.
Cal:i1LT/HCFR

Iris min
pic 90
bright 48
color 53
hue 0
color temp warm1

ADVANCED
black corrector high (helps my gamma)
gamma off
clear white off
color space standard
live color high (helps the primaries)

WHITE BALANCE
R gain -2
G gain -2
B gain -15
R bias 6
G bias 4
B bias 7

If anybody with HCFR wants to try these out and see what they get it would be interesting to see the comparison.

Once I zip my files and figure out how to post them here I will do so.

Troy

Here are my HCFR files, both from my iScan and dvd player.

 

HCFR_Files.zip 2.1865234375k . file
post #72 of 4486
I'm not familiar with your processor and how you use it, so I'm just going to look at your DVD response. Going off that you've got a very nice graph. I've never tried Live Color, but your primaries and gamma whip my A2000. The service menu probably offers a little finer control where you might get closer with your bias settings on the low end. The only area from my trials that I can see I get better numbers is by using IRISMIN in the service menu I get grayscale contrast over 1500 with a lower top light output for nighttime viewing.
post #73 of 4486
What are your settings for Sharpness?
post #74 of 4486
alluringreality, I looked around in the service menu but I can't figure out how to move around in the menu, it's not at all like my old TV (57HW40).

As far as the contrast ratio, I had it some what higher but the blacks were a bit crushed to get it so I up'd black level a little so I could make out shadows better.

I'll have to play with it some more soon to see if I can get anything better.
I don't see how Sony gets there numbers unless actually turn the set off for the black reading and torch mode for the white.

Bari, I have sharpness set to 10 but set it where you think is good just try to avoid ringing.

CYA
post #75 of 4486
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...91#post9762191
is a link to an excel file for the A2000. Although the remote is physically a little different, I expect it works the same. The information in the other A3000 thread was that Sony uses similar service menus, so I figure that if the access code is the same then the controls are probably as well.

Actually one thing that's important that you don't list in your post is if you have power saving on or off. I'll assume it's off, which should give you a better contrast ratio if these new models are contrast limited like my TV is. They use the same bulb, so I figure there's a good chance the A3000 is red limited like mine.

I generally watch in a very dim room, so I prefer a low 100% light output (Y about 76). The most contrast I can get out of my set is to set powersaving off (introduces more red), set white-level to where red is limited (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=911866), and then set the iris as low as possible to still get the 100% light output that I want. If you don't watch in as dim a room, or need more light output (generally set by the iris), then you probably won't get that high a contrast. Going from around 1000 to over 1500 and getting deltaE down I was VERY impressed with what SXRD is capable of compared to the showroom floor.

How does your TV do on uniformity? One thing I noticed with some more time on my TV last night was that the A2000 measurements vary a lot with sensor position. I had to reduce HCFR deltaE in order to correct for some variances in screen location that I was able to pick out by eye watching HD DVD.
post #76 of 4486
Ok I need some help, I have the sony bdp-s300 which does 1080p/24 and the x.v. color. I already set the settings on the blu ray player itself to 1080p/24. I am trying to figure out what settings if any I need to set the 60A-3000 to. In the settings for x.v. color on the tv the options are auto, normal, or x.v. color. Also on the motion naturalizer it has two settings for the hdmi port I use(because of the onkyo 605 hdmi pass thru). One hdmi 1, and one hdmi 1 1080p/24. Should I turn the second one on? To what setting? Anyone else have this set up?
post #77 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by happybob View Post

went through the linked thread. looks like the sony a3000 does not do 1:1 pixel match at all, either with vga or hdmi. guess this means that if i want to use my htpc, i'm better off with a lcd.


I did testing on all the inputs last night for use with my HTPC. (i tested with an ATI Radeon 2600 and X1950 a on my HTPC.) The TV DOES do 1:1 pixel mapping at 1920x1080@ 60hz via the VGA input. The trick is the settings under the Screen menu. Also the wide button on the remote changes between using the different wide settings for the input. Zoom is 1:1 pixel mapping. Full 1 is useful for seeing the whole screen without having to set a custom resolution.

For HD-DVD or BluRay playback (via an external drive and the 2600's built in UVD decoder) i am using 1920x1080@ 60hz with the Zoom setting. There is overscan but the 1:1 mapping from disk to screen is worth it in my opinion. For DVD i have tried 1822x1024@60 to minimize overscan but I am contemplating just using 1920x1080@60hz to simplify use.

As for settings i am using basically what others have posted here.
LL
LL
post #78 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdesaix View Post

I did testing on all the inputs last night for to look at HTPC input. (i tested with an ATI Radeon 2600 and X1950 a on my HTPC.) The TV DOES do 1:1 pixel mapping at 1920x1080@ 60hz via the VGA input. The trick is the settings under the Screen menu. Also the wide button on the remote changes between using the different wide settings for the input. Zoom is 1:1 pixel mapping. Full 1 is useful for seeing the whole screen without having to set a custom resolution.

For HD-DVD or BluRay playback (via an external drive and the 2600's built in UVD decoder) i am using 1920x1080@ 60hz with the Zoom setting. There is overscan but the 1:1 mapping from disk to screen is worth it in my opinion. For DVD i have tried 1822x1024@60 to minimize overscan but I am contemplating just using 1920x1080@60hz to simplify use.

As for settings i am using basically what others have posted here.

[IMG]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/tdesaix/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/Personal/Ash%27s%20Camara/PC1.jpg[/IMG]

Interesting. I tried running monitorTest.exe with its 1:1 pixel mapping test again with the the wide option on "Zoom". I could see the individual pixels, but the screen was all pink. The display is a grey screen on my laptop's LCD and my 32" LCD at work. Can you try running it on your PC? You can get monitorTest from http://tft.vanity.dk/monitorTest.exe.

The info text for the 1:1 pixel test does mention this:
"This pattern also have (sic) a tendency to stress monitors into showing colored areas instead of mere black/white patterns."

Thanks!

Nikhil.
post #79 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilwiz View Post

Interesting. I tried running monitorTest.exe with its 1:1 pixel mapping test again with the the wide option on "Zoom". I could see the individual pixels, but the screen was all pink. The display is a grey screen on my laptop's LCD and my 32" LCD at work. Can you try running it on your PC? You can get monitorTest from http://tft.vanity.dk/monitorTest.exe.

The info text for the 1:1 pixel test does mention this:
"This pattern also have (sic) a tendency to stress monitors into showing colored areas instead of mere black/white patterns."

Thanks!

Nikhil.

Just tried it.... yeah it definitely looks pink. I do think it is showing all the pixels though. The pink goes away if I change the phase to -3 but then I think there is a slight flicker to the screen, i need to investigate farther. Another test you can always to is move a box with text around the screen.- if the text shimmers and slightly changes depending on location it is not 1:1.

Unfortunately this made me aware of a HUGE hair right in the dead middle of my screen. In addition there seems to be some significant convergence issues right above dead middle, similar to how it gets towards the top right and left. I would say that the red is off by a whole pixel at this point. Right where the X's are in my attached pic.


Anyone else seeing this?

Todd
LL
post #80 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdesaix View Post

Just tried it.... yeah it definitely looks pink. I do think it is showing all the pixels though. The pink goes away if I change the phase to -3 but then I think there is a slight flicker to the screen, i need to investigate farther. Another test you can always to is move a box with text around the screen.- if the text shimmers and slightly changes depending on location it is not 1:1.

Unfortunately this made me aware of a HUGE hair right in the dead middle of my screen. In addition there seems to be some significant convergence issues right above dead middle, similar to how it gets towards the top right and left. I would say that the red is off by a whole pixel at this point. Right where the X's are in my attached pic.


Anyone else seeing this?

Todd

I've found some convergence issues and documented them here: http://picasaweb.google.com/knikhil/A3000Convergence, but was told that this is fairly normal.

Nikhil.
post #81 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokenAshes View Post

I don't know why but I love the Detail Enhancer. To me it almost looks extra high def, I have the Detail Enhancer set to High and Sharpness set to 40. If I set the DE back to off the picture looks blurry to me now and gives me a headache. I also think it makes games look soo much better on my PS3. Now what I don't understand is if the CineMotion is set to off and Motion Enhancer set to high. I really don't see much of a difference if the Motion Enhancer was set to off. Now if CineMotion was on and the ME on high then that gives me the "too real" look. But with CM off, I don't see much difference with ME on high...or is that just me?

I've noticed this with my CineMotion settings and Motion Enhancer also. ME doesn't seem to have any affect on the picture when CM is turned off, but when I turn CM on the motion becomes ultra smooth.

What I don't understand is why it seems to affect my blu-ray movies and regular DVDs the same way. The manual states that CM performs reverse 3:2 pulldown, so wouldn't this setting not be needed for true 24p blu-ray playback? I am outputting the blu-ray at 24p with a ps3 and I still don't get the fluid motion unless I turn CM on. Do I have something set up incorrectly or am I just misunderstanding how the technology works? The CM seems to add in artifacts on the edges of fast moving images also, but that could be due to a combination of CM and one of my other settings, I haven't determined if CM alone is the cause of that yet.

Does anyone have an idea of what might be happening here? Has anyone been able to achieve that ultra fluid motion on a 24p feed without CineMotion turned on?
post #82 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetkin View Post

I've noticed this with my CineMotion settings and Motion Enhancer also. ME doesn't seem to have any affect on the picture when CM is turned off, but when I turn CM on the motion becomes ultra smooth.

What I don't understand is why it seems to affect my blu-ray movies and regular DVDs the same way. The manual states that CM performs reverse 3:2 pulldown, so wouldn't this setting not be needed for true 24p blu-ray playback? I am outputting the blu-ray at 24p with a ps3 and I still don't get the fluid motion unless I turn CM on. Do I have something set up incorrectly or am I just misunderstanding how the technology works? The CM seems to add in artifacts on the edges of fast moving images also, but that could be due to a combination of CM and one of my other settings, I haven't determined if CM alone is the cause of that yet.

Does anyone have an idea of what might be happening here? Has anyone been able to achieve that ultra fluid motion on a 24p feed without CineMotion turned on?


cant u turn cinimotion to auto, and one of the motion thigns should be set to standard and the other one should be turned off, or on mode 1, but i heard off is better for 24p footage.
post #83 of 4486
nikhilwiz, tcdesaix, I get this pink screen also but not using an HTPC.
My scaler (iScanHD) has 1:1 pixel test screens in it and they are all pink to so it's something in the TV although I doubt it's a problem.

Troy
post #84 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetkin View Post

I've noticed this with my CineMotion settings and Motion Enhancer also. ME doesn't seem to have any affect on the picture when CM is turned off, but when I turn CM on the motion becomes ultra smooth.

What I don't understand is why it seems to affect my blu-ray movies and regular DVDs the same way. The manual states that CM performs reverse 3:2 pulldown, so wouldn't this setting not be needed for true 24p blu-ray playback? I am outputting the blu-ray at 24p with a ps3 and I still don't get the fluid motion unless I turn CM on. Do I have something set up incorrectly or am I just misunderstanding how the technology works? The CM seems to add in artifacts on the edges of fast moving images also, but that could be due to a combination of CM and one of my other settings, I haven't determined if CM alone is the cause of that yet.

Does anyone have an idea of what might be happening here? Has anyone been able to achieve that ultra fluid motion on a 24p feed without CineMotion turned on?


i woudl liek to hear more about this also, no one has been discusion the 24p look at all on any forums
post #85 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

cant u turn cinimotion to auto, and one of the motion thigns should be set to standard and the other one should be turned off, or on mode 1, but i heard off is better for 24p footage.

Yeah I have Cinemotion on Auto2 (the manual says Auto1 causes the set to ignore the Motion Enhancement setting). My motion naturalizer is turned off. If I understand the technology correctly though, shouldn't you be able to turn Cinemotion off when playing a true 24p source and get the same effect as having it on with a regular DVD? I was just curious why turning it on seemed to affect a source feed that shouldn't need reverse 3:2 pulldown and thought that perhaps I was misunderstanding what it did.
post #86 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetkin View Post

Yeah I have Cinemotion on Auto2 (the manual says Auto1 causes the set to ignore the Motion Enhancement setting). My motion naturalizer is turned off. If I understand the technology correctly though, shouldn't you be able to turn Cinemotion off when playing a true 24p source and get the same effect as having it on with a regular DVD? I was just curious why turning it on seemed to affect a source feed that shouldn't need reverse 3:2 pulldown and thought that perhaps I was misunderstanding what it did.

yeah its onfusing me too, thats hwat i thought it did also. is the 3:2 pulldown on or off on the PS3?
post #87 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by joevfx View Post

yeah its onfusing me too, thats hwat i thought it did also. is the 3:2 pulldown on or off on the PS3?

The ps3 is set to output at 24p, and when I check the input on the TV it says 1080p/24p. Isn't that effectively turning off 3:2 pulldown? The smoothness of the motion just doesn't look any different than normal without CineMotion turned on, and I can't figure why it would make a difference. The effect I get with it turned on is more like what I expected to see with 24p and Motion Enhancement alone.
post #88 of 4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetkin View Post

The ps3 is set to output at 24p, and when I check the input on the TV it says 1080p/24p. Isn't that effectively turning off 3:2 pulldown? The smoothness of the motion just doesn't look any different than normal without CineMotion turned on, and I can't figure why it would make a difference. The effect I get with it turned on is more like what I expected to see with 24p and Motion Enhancement alone.

give sony tech support a call, maybe they can explain it.
post #89 of 4486
Does anyone have different settings for their 360 vs DVD.
post #90 of 4486
My 360, PS3, and Oppo were all very close to each other using Avia. On the 360, be sure to set the black level setting (last blade to the right) to "Extended." This tells the 360 to use 0 IRE for DVD playback instead of 7.5 IRE. If you don't do this and you calibrate with Avia (and probably any other disc), then your black level will be too low for any hi-definition playback as well as games. This is due to the fact that hi-def uses 0 IRE as the reference black level and you will calibrate the TV for 7.5 IRE if you have the 360 "Black Level" set to standard. The difference between standard and extended is about 10 points on the black level setting for an A3000.
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