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New Space - Page 13

post #361 of 505
Tony, I totally understand what you are saying about the concrete slab. I actually have a back row of seating on a 10" raised platform with 2 buttkickers installed. I like to tactile effect of the buttkickers but need to raise the LFE levels to try and get a more even sound and effect if that makes any sense. Plus I have a couch in front of the platform with the berklines on it and you don't get the same affect in that seating position. I would really like to go with the DTS-10 but I have done some measuring and placement is going to be a tough issue to overcome. A friend of mine is recommending 2 Epik Empires, do you guys have any thoughts or opinions? Thanks!
post #362 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Job18 View Post

Tony, I totally understand what you are saying about the concrete slab. I actually have a back row of seating on a 10" raised platform with 2 buttkickers installed. I like to tactile effect of the buttkickers but need to raise the LFE levels to try and get a more even sound and effect if that makes any sense. Plus I have a couch in front of the platform with the berklines on it and you don't get the same affect in that seating position. I would really like to go with the DTS-10 but I have done some measuring and placement is going to be a tough issue to overcome. A friend of mine is recommending 2 Epik Empires, do you guys have any thoughts or opinions? Thanks!

Certainly two subs with some placement flexibility should give you a more flat frequency response in your room. OTOH, you have 5000^3 to deal with and those relatively small sealed subs will not be able to equal the output of a single DTS-10 so comparativly speaking, they will lack impact.

The desire for effortless yet powerful bass is why I have four subs in my HT. I get great tactile and yet tight musical bass because I have even distribution of LFE plus enough headroom that the subs never get pushed hard, let alone beyond their design limits.

Unfortunately, there are no easy answers but I'm sure either of the choices you outlined would be very good start.
post #363 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I have plenty of LFE anyway .

That's an understatement.

This has also been one of my favorite threads. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching your theater evolve into something very special. Nicely done!
post #364 of 505
I'll just toss this out there but have considered an "infinite" sub? I remember reading quite a few threads of people that built their risers to be one big sub box and were very pleased with their results. Might help produce the desired effect considering any space constraints you might have.
post #365 of 505
Hey RMK, not sure if I told you but I changed my mind on the TV. I got a Plasma. I just had a Panasonic 42G25 installed yesterday. The size is actually pretty good. I put in a full screen mode so the picture takes up the entire TV. That looks pretty good to tell you the truth. When I watch a movie with a lot of subtitles I have to change that though because it pushes the translation below to where you can't read it. I am excited to see what Jeff can do. I hope your new projector is looking good. How long do those bulbs last anyway. Again your theater is definitely a top tier system IMHO.
Wish I had more space to really let my system stretch it's legs .
post #366 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Hey RMK, not sure if I told you but I changed my mind on the TV. I got a Plasma. I just had a Panasonic 42G25 installed yesterday. The size is actually pretty good. I put in a full screen mode so the picture takes up the entire TV. That looks pretty good to tell you the truth. When I watch a movie with a lot of subtitles I have to change that though because it pushes the translation below to where you can't read it. I am excited to see what Jeff can do. I hope your new projector is looking good. How long do those bulbs last anyway. Again your theater is definitely a top tier system IMHO.
Wish I had more space to really let my system stretch it's legs .

That's very cool Mike, I am a Panny plasma fan although I just sold mine. I finally pulled the trigger on an AT screen. I ordered a Seymour 132" diag fixed screen to replace my Stewart powered screen. The JTR LCR's will be moved up and behind the AT screen. The plan is to float the screen (suspended from the ceiling) rather than building a screen wall. I will backlight the screen for an IMAX show the giant speakers look.

Wish me luck ...
post #367 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

That's very cool Mike, I am a Panny plasma fan although I just sold mine. I finally pulled the trigger on an AT screen. I ordered a Seymour 132" diag fixed screen to replace my Stewart powered screen. The JTR LCR's will be moved up and behind the AT screen. The plan is to float the screen (suspended from the ceiling) rather than building a screen wall. I will backlight the screen for an IMAX show the giant speakers look.

Wish me luck ...

WOW. A 132in dia screen. That should be amazing with that projector. The last that I saw was that you had a 106in screen. Man that 132 should be sweet. Truly IMAX worthy. That is just over 3X my screen. I wish I could just stop by. I think I can be happy though. Like I said, it fits the room nicely. But have fun with your screen. How far do sit from you screen? I can imagine how much fun Jeff is going to have with that system. Mine will be real light work for him.
post #368 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

WOW. A 132in dia screen. That should be amazing with that projector. The last that I saw was that you had a 106in screen. Man that 132 should be sweet. Truly IMAX worthy. That is just over 3X my screen. I wish I could just stop by. I think I can be happy though. Like I said, it fits the room nicely. But have fun with your screen. How far do sit from you screen? I can imagine how much fun Jeff is going to have with that system. Mine will be real light work for him.


Actually in taking with Chris at Seymour I decided to decrease the screen one size to 126" diag. All the screen size calculators including THX I read indicate that this size gives me a 40 degree front row viewing angle. The 132" was pushing everything just a bit and I'm only losing 5" of total width so I believe this will work out much better. We shall see .
post #369 of 505
126' diag. I think you meant 126". That is exactly 3X my current TV. That should still be fantastic though. Even though I have a little 42in, I am still anxious to see what Jeff can do with it. To me, it does seem to have a number of options to help the get best out of it.
post #370 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

126' diag. I think you meant 126". That is exactly 3X my current TV. That should still be fantastic though. Even though I have a little 42in, I am still anxious to see what Jeff can do with it. To me, it does seem to have a number of options to help the get best out of it.

Remember the Michael Keaton line from Mr. Mom where the electrician tells him he needs a new 220V line and he says, Ok, 220, 225 ... whatever it takes .
post #371 of 505
Rob, Personally I'd stick with the larger 132" screen size...
post #372 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

Rob, Personally I'd stick with the larger 132" screen size...

Yeah, but you also think that a proper HT needs 4 Submersives and two Terraform XL's ...
post #373 of 505
wow, going to AT?
Are you going 2:35-1 or 16x9?

You wrote not too long ago, dont liked the AT picture, so what brought about the big chance, Rob?
post #374 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

wow, going to AT?
Are you going 2:35-1 or 16x9?

You wrote not too long ago, dont liked the AT picture, so what brought about the big chance, Rob?

Hi Wilson, 16:9
As you know I have wanted a bigger AT screen for a while. The Seymour as well as all of the other samples I received looked a little dull in comparison to my Stewart Studiotek 130 because my JVC HD-100 wasn't bright enough to light up a larger lower gain screen like the Seymour. My new RS35 is a light canon by comparison and even in normal lamp mode is very bright.

Also, I read Jeff Meier's (UMR on AVS) screen comparison and he gave the Seymour a positive review (Jeff will be calibrating my RS35 in June). Finally, Seymour has a 30 day return policy where you only pay return shipping if you don't like the screen and that made giving it a try a no-brainer.

That is why I changed my mind.
post #375 of 505
It should be a great picture when it is all said and done. Mine will be done in about a month and a half .
post #376 of 505
Wow!!! I just read the whole thread and your room is great!!! It has transformed into a room that many people, myself included would kill for.

Can't wait to see the updates when you get the new screen too.
post #377 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Wow!!! I just read the whole thread and your room is great!!! It has transformed into a room that many people, myself included would kill for.

Can't wait to see the updates when you get the new screen too.

Thanks Dave ,

The new screen is a pretty big step. I sold my 58" panny plasma and will sell the powered Stewart if the Seymour AT works out. I found I wasn't using the plasma and so why not gear up for a larger fixed AT. I admit to being concerned () about a picture quality delta using an AT screen and I'm hoping that having the LCR"s behind the screen will help off-set any PQ difference.
post #378 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Thanks Dave ,

The new screen is a pretty big step. I sold my 58" panny plasma and will sell the powered Stewart if the Seymour AT works out. I found I wasn't using the plasma and so why not gear up for a larger fixed AT. I admit to being concerned () about a picture quality delta using an AT screen and I'm hoping that having the LCR"s behind the screen will help off-set any PQ difference.

I agree totally!

And I am sure you will love the AT screen, especially with a properly calibrated RS35.
post #379 of 505
Can't wait for the next GTG at RMK!

post #380 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

Can't wait for the next GTG at RMK!


Good idea Wilson ...

Once I get the new AT screen installed (next weekend) and if Jeff ever sends me the new Coax/Compression Driver and crossover for the T12's there will be enough changes to warrant another GTG.

I think Fugueness will be hosting a meet once his Terraform XL's arrive and I'm looking forward to that. He will be setting the bar pretty high from an HT Audio perspective .
post #381 of 505
Thread Starter 
This is one large screen (126" diag.)

It went together in less than an hour. Kudos to Seymour for a very nice design. Due to work () I will not get it setup and operational until tomorrow evening and plan on christening it with Avatar. That should be interesting...Dramamine at the ready

post #382 of 505
Wow, that looks good!
Was it easy to put together?
Depending how yours turn out, i might be heading the same way.

Hope our RS35 will be bright enough.
post #383 of 505
Congrats RMK!

Now that's a man size screen. Nice to see you make the jump over to the AT Screen.
post #384 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

Wow, that looks good!
Was it easy to put together?
Depending how yours turn out, i might be heading the same way.

Hope our RS35 will be bright enough.

Yes, assembly was a very easy and everything fit and went together just like the instructions.

I am cautiously optimistic about the brightness. That will be the deciding factor as I am sure it will not affect the sound to any degree and very likely will improve the audio. That's kinda the point, isn't it
post #385 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Congrats RMK!

Now that's a man size screen. Nice to see you make the jump over to the AT Screen.

Thanks Mark, after your and Keith's proselytizing on the virtues of AT at Peter's Meet last year, I had to give it a go .
post #386 of 505
RMK,

What is the model # for your Berkline seats?
Time to order mines,
post #387 of 505
RMK, I'm really interested in hearing your review of the AT screen in regards to video image and sound. I'm considering one myself but mine will not be as large as yours or will be used with as high end a projector as yours either.
post #388 of 505
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

RMK,

What is the model # for your Berkline seats?
Time to order mines,


I have the Savoy 45008 in Japanese red leather. I bought the first 3 from a local furniture store and the last 3 from:

Roman
rtheaters.com
Utimate Home Entertainment


BTW, much better pricing from Roman .
post #389 of 505
Thread Starter 
Last year at an excellent HT Meet hosted by Forum member Fugueness, both Mark Seaton and Keith Yates spoke in some detail about the advantages of AT (Acoustically Transparent) screens. Please excuse my dime store summation on this topic but essentially, our brains are capable of tricking us into believing sound is coming from one source when it actually isn’t (i.e. a ventriloquist). According to Mr. Yates, the HT audio experience is greatly enhanced if this trickery isn’t necessary. There is realism to the sound emanating from the image and that is the reason that all commercial theaters use AT screens. Keith and Marks comments stuck with me and as my room seemed a good candidate from a physical layout perspective I began to research the subject.

The first thing I noticed was the cost. Adding acoustic transparency to a screen seemed to nearly double the cost of a comparable non-AT screen. There seemed to be two basic approaches to AT screens with perforation of the screen material being the most common. Special woven fabric was the other approach with claimed advantages to each depending upon screen size and viewing distance. From reading reviews, requesting and testing samples and some in-person demos at dealers, I determined that the best option for me was the Seymour AV XD woven screen material. Interestingly, the relative low price of the Seymour actually made me more skeptical of its claimed performance, but drawing upon my experience with other AV equipment I decided that a higher price is no guarantee of better performance.

So with my outstanding non-AT Stewart StudioTek 130 (106” diag.) powered as a reference, I ordered a Seymour XD fixed screen (126” diag.). All time commitments were met and when the box it arrived it was a shocking 10’ X 18” X 9”. The box and contents were in perfect condition and the assembly was a breeze due to clever engineering and clear instructions. In fact, assembly of the screen took me about an hour and I did this alone using only the supplied allen wrench. The screen and frame were so well made that I actually enjoyed a job I would normally only tolerate.

The first thing I noticed is the Fidelio fabric used on the frame. Seymour claims this fabric is the most non-reflective available and I believe them. It is the blackest of black and actually beautiful. Everyone who has seen the screen has commented on the quality look and beauty of it. The woven XD fabric is another eye catcher. It looks very cool and show a pattern up close but this disappears as you move away. Unlike the perf screens (even micro-perf) I saw, there is no obvious indication of Acoustic transparency unless you look very close and yet, woven screen are (by testing) the most acoustically transparent. Interesting stuff this, but on to the setup.

I temp installed the screen by hanging it (via some heavy wire and hooks) from the ceiling in what will be very close to the final installation location. I left my Stewart screen in place and simple disconnected the 12 volt trigger from my projector. After installation, I went into the setup menu of my JVC projector and adjusted the image to the screen and focused it. With the much larger image and the woven fabric, the pixels seemed less crisp than with the Stewart but as I moved away it looked good so onward. Next, I re-ran Audyssey (I have to wonder if anyone has run Audyssey EQ more times than I have) and checked the speaker config and levels and set them to my preferred settings (Xover, distance and level check with SPL meter).

From my front row center (money chair) the first source I played was Cable (Comcast HD) and I quickly spun through some channels. The image quality was slightly grainier than with the Stewart but I attributed this to the increased screen size. To check the sound, I used the Jeff Beck Bluray (Live at Ronnie Scott’s). This is my favorite concert Bluray and the sound was every bit as good as before and perhaps a bit better. This is not a reference video bluray and but from my 13’ front row viewing distance the screen looked great and to my eyes, there was no sign of the screens weave or acoustic transparency. We had some friends coming over for dinner and a movie (Avatar) so I had to forgo further testing and get barbecuing.

So the first real test of my new AT screen was a full house viewing of the Avatar bluray. None of my guests had seen it and I had made my only commercial theater venture in the last 4 years to see it at IMAX (3D) so I was very interested in the PQ and SQ differences at home vs. IMAX. From the opening fanfare music (Fox I think) to the incredible imagery and sound it was as one of guests put it, the single best movie experience he had ever had. Avatar is a movie that if you buy-in, you can easily get lost in the images and sound this new AT screen combined with my industrial strength speakers and projection made it a truly spectacular 3 hours. The detail and colors were jaw dropping and the sound equally so.

I think you may have noticed that I kind of like the screen and will be keeping it. My primary use of the HT is movies and concert videos and on the rare occasion I will use it for sports I will probably move to the back row (approx 18’ to the screen. Chris at Seymour AV claimed that no-one has ever taken advantage of his generous policy and returned a screen and it looks like I will be keeping that record intact.



View from the back row

post #390 of 505
Now that you have the LCR behind the screen do you find the Heights contribute less? I've read that in a non-AT setup they are suppose to 'raise' the sound.

Louis
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