Denon Video Processor - Page 2

anymore news on this?

I see it is out there and being heavily discounted...

Can you PM me with vendors that are selling at a good price? Thnaks.

Me too please!

seems unusual for denon gear to be 'deeply discountyed--maybe they have become aware of the competition...any of you that have the previosuly requested info on where to get it if you could pm me too i'd be eternally grateful. this actually would be a good solution for my setup.

Perhaps. I was very close to getting this processor, but then DVDO's EDGE came along. The EDGE has served my needs well and doesn't have me thinking twice.

had a look at the edge thread--wow that's one heck of a unit for the price. That also gave me pause and I had a re-look at the vp20 and 30 and 50 as well...definitely seems as though the denon is WAY overpriced for what it offers although it is a rather comely unit...

I'm building a system and I've been researching this thing to go with a Denon AVR-3808, but I can't see how the two units would work together. I like to keep things simple, with the 3808 being the heart and hub of the system. If I had this DVP-602CI, doesn't that force me to use the 602CI as the system hub and now I've got to change inputs on two boxes? I had hoped that the DVP could sync with the AVR using Denon Link or something. No sign of that so far in my reviews of the DVP's manuals. I'm also looking at he DVDO Edge, but I'm frustrated by how the video processor does not seem to integrate well with the receiver.

Am I missing something? What is a typical way of integrating these units into a setup with a receiver?

Thanks

GGT

I suggest using a video processor to do your switching and running the output of it through your receiver and into your display.

if you choose to use the edge, you would connect everything directly to it, then run one hdmi out to your display, and one to your avr... the edge would handle all of the switching...

not sure what the "integration" problem is?

What I 'm referring to when I say integration is the settings that the AVR remembers for each input for the audio output. With everything running through the DVP (or Edge), the AVR is clueless on the source and I have to piddle with the DVR for just about every source change. Its not that I don't like fiddling with my settings, but I'm an engineer and I kinda get a buzz out of slick, integrated functionality. That and the more complicated these things are the very much less likely my wife will be happy with the situation. She's used to an AVR (Denon AVR-2701) running the show, but she has kindly asked that I try and integrate things more with this upgrade (fewer remotes needed). Its not an unreasonable request. I plan on getting a Harmony One to solve that, but the the addition of the DVP (or Edge) adds more questions and I am surprised that Denon's solution (with its associated cost) doesn't more tightly share info back and forth with the AVR.

Does this make me sound nutty?

GGT

well, yes, a bit nutty, but most of us sound that way at times...

fwiw, i have half a dozen sources running to my vp (edge, fwiw)... i don't have to fiddle much with the avr... only time i really have to do anything is if i'm using the roku player and want to apply processing to get pseudo-surround...

maybe i'm missing something... but the avr generally "knows" what to do with whatever it gets...

edit: good choice on the h1, i'm very happy with mine...

How about buying a Denon 5308? This integrates the Denon VP into a receiver quite well.

The cost isn't that bad given that the Denon VP is the VP function of the 5308--do the math.

A side benefit is that the 5308 is a very good AVR. Wife will have no problem. Mine asked me to buy one and get rid of the separates.

However, the AVR-5308 is way more AVR than I can justify. It has a lot more class and features that my setup could ever use. I have no use for multi-zone stuff at all.

1. An AVR-3808 + DVP-603 = 1500+2000=3500 where as the AVR-5308 is 5500. So, ouch.

2. The AVR-5308 won't fit in my entertainment stand. Though I could look for a side stand solution.

3. I've not done anywhere near enough research on the 5308, but I'll probably go off and get on that. To be honest, I was avoiding the 5308 t some degree so as not to tempt myself with something that would be overkill. Maybe I should rethink that.

[sigh]

GGT

Yeah, if you only had half a component to hook up, that would be no problem with the Edge.

I have a 3808 and am waiting for my Edge to arrive from AVS (Jason?) so you know where I am at. I think the 5308 is an awesome receiver if you can justify it. You have told us nothing about your sources or display device so we don't even know why you think you need a VP. Many sources and display devices have pretty good video processing these days and you may not need a VP (forgive me if my quick read of the thread didn't find your system).

I am not sure why I really NEED and Edge or any other VP but I have convinced myself they might help. What's your excuse?

"I am not sure why I really NEED and Edge or any other VP but I have convinced myself they might help. What's your excuse??"

That's exactly my story. You hit that right on the head. In answer to your question about my setup (in progress), here are details:

My basement/HT setup was wiped up by a flood, so I'm upgrading, collecting components but can't actually set them up yet because the basement is not yet done.

1. Sony 60" SXRD (new in box, unopened)
2. PS3 (original 60 GB, currently in use on old TV)
3. Bello TV Stand with clearance for 7.75" AVR (in storage)
4. DirecTV HD (haven't gotten yet, but heard conflicting reports about HD quality which makes me think about the VP options)
5. APC J10 Power Conditioner and Power Backup (new in box)
6. Two Furman Power Conditioners (new in box)
7. Panasonic 100 CD Changer (on the old side)
8. Denon DVD-755 (also on the old side)
9. Slingbox (currently in use on the backup TV)
10. Infinity Overture CC1 center channel
11. Infinity Overture 3 Towers in Front
12. Infinity Overture 2 Towers in Rear
13. Infinity Overture 1 on Sides
14. Two Infinity BU-2 12" subs
15. Infinity HPS-100 14" Sub (its an experiment, I snagged it off ebay)
16. Denon AVR-3808 (not acquired yet and part of this discussion)

The speakers all were unhurt by the flood (I moved really fast). They are currently all in a closet biding time. I think that's everything.

GGT

Off topic but how did it flood, and what have you done to help prevent it again?

Water table rose under house, came thru floor. Multiple super sump pumps installed with under floor drainage.

GGT

It's really to bad about the flood. I have a basement, a high water table and a sump pump that goes on and off regularly and I worry it won't work someday. They say that there are two kinds of basements, those that have flooded and those that haven't flooded yet. But at least you saved stuff.

Your PS3 and Sony RPJ should do pretty well for BD and DVD -- might or might not need an Edge. I kind of doubt it but maybe wander over to the RPJ forum and ask. Somebody must have tried this.

Now's here's the part that will cost you a VP. It all depends on how you approach DirecTV-HD. If you have been watching SD off the air or satellite their HD will look awesome. But if you have been watching 1080p HD or Blu-Ray, it does not compare. You could either say it's amazing for a compressed signal to look that good or you could say it's so compressed it looks like %&&(%! Bottom line is that it could use some help, but no VP will take an awful signal and make HD out of it.

I have a Algolith Flea that I just started using to remove MPEG-4 compression artifacts from DirecTV. I thought it would be best on SD and be marginal on HD. It's just the other way around. It makes the HD look very much better, and it merely improves the SD. That's probably because the SD signal just has too little information (too much lossy compression). I am buying the Edge to see if deinterlacing and scaling correctly (Fleas only remove noise but they do that very well) will further help the SD signal. It could be there's no hope to DirecTV SD signals, but then more and more of their stations are switching to HD which greatly improves them. Overall, I am happy with DirecTV, the lack of good content is more of a bother and an Edge won't fix that.

I haven't seen an Edge work yet so I have no opinion on that. The Denon is a very good AVR and would work to make your speakers really shine and it has some VP capability (great chip, but fewer options and adjustments than a VP with a Realta). The Edge is economical but adds a layer of complexity. I'd start out by setting up the SXRD display and PS3, getting the HD sat. receiver and see how it looks. It may be fine.

Bump

So did any one end up getting this denon scalar. I was wondering if it would be a good upgrade to my 5800 that does not have hdmi switching..

Also could you connect the serial ports together having the avr control the scalar?

It's hard to believe as many Denon-philes as there are around here that no one can provide any user feedback on this thing yet.

They saw the price and decided to just spring for a discounted AVR-5308CI instead.

In all seriousness, someone who posts on AVS or AVForums had to have tried this processor.

Well, I just ordered one of these from Crutchfield so I'll try to provide some feedback next week.

Nice. I'm looking forward to your feedback, especially in the area of how it compares to DVDO's EDGE.

'Twil be here Monday.

And to all a good night.

We'll see.

Well, I've been playing around with it for a few days.

I haven't come upon any reason not to like this VP yet.

Hard to see why more haven't sold unless it's just the price point.

More later.

Here are some initial impressions.

Associated equipment:

• Sources:PS3, Toshiba A1, Oppo 970, D* H20, D* HTL-HD (DVI)
• Display: Sony vpl-vw50 1080p front projector/110 inch Da-Lite HP screen
• Other VP's: Integra DTC-9.8 (Reon), DVDO Edge (ABT 2010)
• Prior owned VP's: Anthem AVM50 (Gennum VXP), Lumagen HDP, Algolith Flea HDMI

All connections HDMI (DVI for HTL-HD).


Setup is relatively easy and intuitive as long as you are comfortable navigating a typical GUI menu. The manual is adequate. The remote is cheap but also adequate. All of my sources are HDMI/DVI and I ran into no sync issues. Handshakes are faster than with my Integra DTC-9.8 Reon-based unit.

There appear to be no errors with colorspace conversion/video levels. I have 422 YCbCr, 444 YCbCr, and RGB sources and all are treated properly. Below black/peak white is correctly passed with all three. I set the VP for YCbCr output. Interestingly, according to the info display, even with this setting RGB still is output RGB. In fact, whatever colorspace is input is output. For example 422 YCC goes out as 422 YCC, 444 in 444 out, etc. I confirmed this with another VP (DVDO Edge) on the 602's output identifying colorspace. One caveat would be that this may depend on EDID communication b/w the source, vp, and display of which I had no control. A DVI display should force the 602 to convert output to RGB regardless of input, so I suspect this wouldn't present any problems with most setups.

I have various test pattern discs at my disposal, so I ran the 602 through the paces. Looking at the DVE 720p overscan pattern, scaling was excellent and without ringing from 720->1080. Scaling from 480->1080 via AVIA's sharpness pattern was less perfect, but still good and without ringing. From what I can tell the scaling performance of Realta (602) vs. Reon (DTC-9.8) is basically identical. DVDO Edge rings more with 720->1080 and 480->1080 but wins out by a smidge with resolution at 480->1080. The Realta/Reon showed ever so slightly more moire artifacting with the 480 TVL resolution pattern.

Deinterlacing tests were very interesting. For SD/HD video, Reon (DTC-9.8) bests Realta (DVP-602CI) by a small margin looking at the jaggies test patterns (HQV SD and HD test discs). ABT/DVDO still performs well, but less well than both Reon/Realta. From recent tests and memory, I'd say Realta, Gennum VXP, and Pioneer Kuro all are about equivalent for SD/HD video via these tests. Take that for what it's worth. For SD/HD film, Realta and ABT/DVDO were superior and about equal followed by Reon then Gennum. Realta of course was the only one to pick up all of the more unusual cadences (vari-speed, anime, etc).

Real world viewing seems to mirror testing for the most part. Basically, the 602 with Realta seems to perform well with all aspects of video processing and excels at most. Film sources converted to 1080p24 output are without artifacts/stuttering for the most part. This is the best performance from a VP in this area that I've seen. The noise reduction, in particular, is excellent. Even set at the highest setting, I can detect no loss in detail either with viewing or via test patterns. I've owned the Flea HDMI, and I like the Realta NR much better. There just seems to be nothing changed in the image other than the noise. I keep it at the "mid" setting for most viewing. NR is active for 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p24 sources.

From a functional standpoint, the 602 has just about everything you'd want. 6 HDMI 1.3 inputs as well as the usual spattering of other inputs are included. It has independent per-input picture adjustments (contrast, brightness, hue, tint, enhancer, sharpness, NR) as well as independent per-input output configurations (output res, pass-thru, AR control, deinterlacer mode). There is also capability to vertically stretch the image (for CIH 2.35:1 setups). It also passes multichannel PCM audio over HDMI without problems/glitches. I don't do bitstream for HBR audio but I suspect it would work fine as MPCM seems to be the hardest to implement correctly.

Firmware updates are via ethernet connection and you can also interface with the 602 via web browser control.

So, it would seem a highly capable, fully-featured VP built by a well-respected company around a renowned image processing SOC. I guess the question is why am I the only one here who seems to own one? Because Silicon Optix recently changed ownership? Anyway, that won't stop me from enjoying it.

Merry Christmas.

That's an excellent and very informative review.

I find Denon's Reon implementation in the DVD-2930CI to be disappointing compared to the EDGE (numerous cadence slips for simple content and highly aliased scaling are the two biggest issues), but it looks as if they did a great job implementing the Realta.