XA-2 2.5 Update started a new can of worms.

I did notice some slight lag in the audio too. I went back to the menu after bookmarking my spot and then went back to the bookmark and it was fine. If it pops up again then I do the same. That's the bad thing about firmware updates, they fix one thing and it screws up another. They will probably have another firmware soon to fix the bugs. I have a PS3 and when they did the 1080p/24 update, they had to do another firmware update a few days later after they saw how the first one went. Progress is slow, but I think they'll get it right in the end. There's nothing more annoying than a lip-sync problem. Ask Britney Spears. Good luck

I'm experiencing the audio lag too. I'll try the bookmark - menu - return thing. I posted about this problem in the 1080p/24 thread and someone posted that he thought it was due to my display most likely performing a 3:2 pull-down to turn the video to 1080p/60 instead of 3:3 to turn it into 1080p/72. I have no idea if that is true or if it would cause a lag.

- Derek

I noticed the same problem on my XA2. I posted about it in the 2.5 firmware download thread.

I'm feeding a Panny AE1000 PJ which is supposed to handle 1080/24p fine.

I had major lip synch problems with video, which makes sense because video is shot in 30 fps. But I also noticed the problem on one of the SD movies that I tested (Pirates of the Caribbean).

So 1080/24p seems to be hit and miss at this point.

this is the main problem with 24p..... it can cause more harm than good, since there is a lot of stuff that can go wrong with 1080p24 output (display issues, receiver issues, ect)

To me this just sounds like the difference in video lag from going through a deinterlaced route to a direct route, the difference should be around 60ms.

Greetings,

I installed 2.5 via ethernet last night and ran some discs though the player this morning.

I do notice the occasional stutter however it is random and quick alomost barely perceptable.

More improtantly there is a noticeable audio synch problem. Setting the lip synch correction on my Anthem pre/pro compensates for it but this really should not be necessary.

Picture quality looks to be very bit as good as before the update. I will need to watch more content to make a determination regarding any improvements with 24fps vs. 60fps playback.

Connections are as follows:

Audio/video via HDMI from XA2 to Anthem AVM-50 pre/pro to Sony VPL-VW50 1080p front projector.

Regards,

LOL! But hers was caused by too many margaritas. What's the XA2's excuse?

I experience a serious lip-sync delays watching 300 but only when watching som eof the features. Not while watching the movie itself.

did you guys use the "Initialize" button or just unplug the players?

"Picture quality looks to be very bit as good as before the update."

That's faint praise for something so highly anticipated.

I want everyone to carefully consider the following.

1. Review how much has been posted about the absolute importance of 1080p/24. There have been literally thousands of posts about this.

2. Now consider the reaction when it's finally available for HD DVD. If there were any reasonable symmetry between the hype and the performance gain, we should be reading posts about people swinging from the rafters singing and shouting with uncontrolled glee about how wonderful the image looks now that 1080p/60 has been replaced with 1080p/24.

Instead, what do we get? Ho hum. Either it looks as good as before or it has in some ways actually caused more problems than it has solved.

I vote this the as the single most over-hyped issue in the history of home theater.

I just can't beleive the HUGE audio synch problem this update brought. I just went back and put back 1080p and no Audio Synch issues. I will leave it like that until Toshiba does it right the next time, I simply can't tolerate this issue, try to see Riddick and let me know later.

This is not true. The Blu-Ray implement is really good and provide a great improvement over 1080p60. The HD DVD implementation is not perfect and most of the peoples using it yesterday passed more time understanding what was going on with the menus, Pip, low rez features being converted at 1080p24, and trying to debug lip-sync delays introduced by the conversion. Give it a few days until watch a few movies strictly looking at the movie itself.

I would tend to agree with you, although I have never seen a 1080p24 Blu-ray player outputting at that resolution to a similarly-capable display. Can someone who has seen this set-up attest to its superior qualities, or is it just a meeeh?

Wait until DTS-HD MA arrives and everyone comments on how it sounds the same as TrueHD

Joking aside, those that see the limitations of 60p playback will welcome the smooth playback of 24p. Those that don't will say no big deal. If you have a 120Hz display that doubles 60p content, the switch to 24p content won't be noticeable much, if at all.

I am watching all my Blu-Ray since a few months at 24fps. I used a JVC RS1 and a Benq W9000. Seing movies without judder are great. But it is more a not going back type of experience. You use it for two weeks and than go back 1080p60 for a quick test and this is where you realize how painful judder is.

Even my wife who could not care less about my HT pickiness is amazed on how smooth 24fps is.

If this were true then we would expect to have long ago seen a broad consensus that Blu-ray versions of the same title offered on HD DVD provided markedly superior image quality. We would read routine comments about how the Blu-ray release in the 1080p/24 mode was heads and above superior to the HD DVD version.

However, this isn't what's happened. In fact, the consensus seems to be that with respect to image quality the 2 mediums are roughly the same, with a very small advantage going occasionally to Blu-ray and occasionally to HD DVD.

At best, 1080p/24 appears to offer subtle improvements on some material during certain scenes that is visible by some people who are especially sensitive to it. Since getting the benefit requires both source and display hardware working together, the lack of perceived quality by others may be implementation problems.

Compare this to the ubiquitous, occasionally hysterical hype about how essential 1080p/24 is to obtaining satisfying reproduction. The Emperor has no clothes--well, maybe he's wearing a speedo.

So, here's a challenge. If 1080p/24 is so important, provide an example of a specific scene from a Blu-ray release that looks clearly better when viewing in 1080p/24 mode compared to 1080p/60. This is easy to do with deinterlacing artifacts. The staircase scene at the beginning of chapter 8 of MI:3 is a torture test for deinterlacers. That's an artifact everyone other than the legally blind can see. I just don't see the jerky motion that 1080p/60 is supposed to cause and that 1080p/24 fixes. Give me an example. I've got the Sony S1. I'll take a look.

"...you may find having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical - but it is often true."

should only make a real difference on slow pans on things like city skylines etc an some moire effects on tihghtly bunched lines, lilke teh MI3 staircase.

IMHO for most people the juddeer effect is overhyped.

Are a lot of the lypsync issues with people running the HDMI through AVR switching?

Anybody getting it using analog 5.1 outs and HDMI direct to the display?

Staircase looks fine on my setup whether the XA2 outputs 1080i, 1080P60 or 1080P24. Although I am running it through a VP50 which I assume is the reason it looks the same from all three.

Could not agree more with this. At first did not see a big difference, but after going from the PS3 (1080/24p) to the A1 it was noticable. Nice to have this on the XA2 finaly.

In response to Toms grumpy old man post I was going to post the same thing. While there is some noticeable improvement if you know what to look for, the real prize becomes fully evident when you've lived with it for a few weeks or months. Going back to to 3:2 pulldown will have you shaking your head how you can have ever watched movies like that. BUT, after living with 3:2 pulldown it becomes a non issue again after a few weeks.

In this game it's good to change things up often, that leaves you admiring in the new pj or config only what pissed you off about your previous pj before the negatives creep in.

The improvement in pq doesn't stop at judder elimination, there are other benefits as well.

I just upgraded to the 24p using 5.1 analog and I am getting sync issues. I have a sony aw15 projector that does 24p but the sync issue forces me not to use this feature.

I am still waiting for someone to point out the key scene that reveals the great improvement offered by 1080p/24. Is this a testable hypothesis?

So far all I've read are very vague and general "it looks better" comments. Are you sure it looks better? Is it possible that you aren't being affected by the power of suggestion, seeing what you expect and want to see?

Could you reliably identify 1080p/24 and 1080p/60 in a series of double-blind tests?

It is subtle, but once you watch 1080/24p for a week or so then go back to 1080/60 you will notice the diference. When I first got the PS3 and watched at 1080/24p it was not that big of a diference. Then a week or so later watched a few HD-DVD's at 1080/60 and missed the extra smoothness. At this point I could tell a noticable diference.

The classic telltale scene is a slow pan left to right with a lot of vertical lines, like a city skyline with square windows and up and down edges of buildings, or a very complicated structure like a staircase or stadium stands in th distance with a lot of fine parallel lines.

In the first case, you may see a bit of shimmer or edge wavering on the vertical lines as the camera slowly pans , on the second you can see a bit of moire when tiny lines shimmer and blend together.

in other cases, there just isa bit of subtle smoothness to 1080p24 when slow panning movement is seen.

Pretty much, its pretty fleeting when you can really see it even when you know what to look for, otherwise its just kinda subtle, you know its just a tiny bit better, but you can't describe it.

Those that I have talked to including Kevin Collins, the Microsoft HD DVD guru, says its kinda tough to watch 1080p60 if you consistently watch 1080p24. They say they can see the breakup on the edge of the buildings in 1080p60. It may only happen at he beginning of the movie, in an long shot city scape establishing scene, for 20 seconds, but they notice it.

Myself, its like the chroma bug or CUE or other picky issues like DLP rainbow, it bothers me not in real life watching , and I can only see them when I force myself to see it under very specific circumstances.


Can any on else describe the 1080p24 improvement better than me?

Heh, I've said as much months ago.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videopr...d1/index1.html