or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Blu Ray's 'unfinished' spec....Thank goodness!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Blu Ray's 'unfinished' spec....Thank goodness! - Page 3

post #61 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

Look at POC and all the problems that movie had...My POC_TCOTBP, has a long load time on my PS3.....

Mine loads in less than 10 seconds on my PS3. I've seen this complaint before (obviously a real issue) with SAL BD players, but never with PS3. Maybe yours isn't functioning properly?
post #62 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven975 View Post

the 15GB per layer was a "safety decision" just in case yields were not good. Yields ARE good and they are just using previously unoccupied space. Bit spacing and the like have not been changed so there's no real challenge with 17GB/layer discs.

That was the early reports. More recently some of the info leaking out indicates that the track pitch, spacing, or some other factor was changed to get the extra 2 gb/layer; thus the theory that perhaps the bandwidth was increased by an incremental amount (I believe the speculation revolved around 15%); this without a spin rate change. If they were just using previously unused space on the disc this obviously wouldn't have been brought up.
post #63 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma View Post

Mine loads in less than 10 seconds on my PS3. I've seen this complaint before (obviously a real issue) with SAL BD players, but never with PS3. Maybe yours isn't functioning properly?

So, in ten seconds you are watching the movie?


I see a coin spinning in the middle of the screen.......then the menu.
post #64 of 159
the bland: Some how I knew this thread you bring in your ranting HD-DVD supporters. The PS3 has been by far the best player to upgrade/update and my unit has preformed flawlessly so far with no audio issues or video issues. With each update the unit has gotten better at what it does, and that is play very cool games and plays back great Blu-Ray movies to boot. If you have an issue with a PS3 or any device take it back, I took my A2 back after it quit working... Also the Pip and interactive issue is way over blown, I mean to some on here it would be nice to have, but the masses that just want to sit down and push play really do not care about this feature at all. I mean if your a huge movie buff and want extra content then it might be worth it.
post #65 of 159
I'm not sure if the new BD-J 1.1 API includes JavaFX as Sun seems to claim.

If so then I would be worried (me being an Enterprise Java developer with 10 years experience) as the JavaFX API is not anywhere near mature.

Even from a highly skilled Java background I would prefer Microsoft's HDi API any day :-)


Java has better APIs than Microsoft in many areas - JavaFX is not one of those.
post #66 of 159
I think the issue here is more likely related to Panasonic simply designing and building a better player than Toshiba. That and/or they have much better quality control. I suspect it is combination of both.

I have the Panasonic, and I'm quite amazed with how well it works for a first generation product. I'm sure it will have no problems playing the basic feature on 1.1 & 2.0 discs with an appropriate firmware upgrade.

I also have the A1, and I don't use it much due to all the annoying glitches. One would think after who knows how many firmware upgrades, it would be more stable.
post #67 of 159
Hmmm...I am going to retest my load time enigma just to be sure as there has been a couple of firmware updates.....be back soon...
post #68 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven975 View Post

Sorry, attach rates do mean something. With millions of players sold, Blu-Ray has turned in absolutely pathetic disc sales. Studios won't invest hundreds of millions rolling out a format large-scale if their biggest base is the PS3. Won't happen. PS3 owners just don't care on average.

And, yes, interactivity means something. Not to you but to many.

Also, BD-J is out already. If you mean 1.1 working on existing players, that's impossible as the hardware needed just isn't there. I'd peg 51GB working on 1st gen players at higher than impossible.


Sorry attach rates don't mean squat. They want to sell the most disc's to the most customers. It doesn't matter if your customer base is 1 million or 100,000. If the 100,000 buys more media, you win. At the moment there are considerably more Blu Ray capable players on the market and Blu Ray sells more software.

I am talking about the rumor (from Denon no less) that 1.1 profile disc's will not play on 1.0 profile players. I am not talking about the interactivity working, just whether the movie will play or not.
post #69 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Sorry attach rates don't mean squat. They want to sell the most disc's to the most customers. It doesn't matter if your customer base is 1 million or 100,000. If the 100,000 buys more media, you win. At the moment there are considerably more Blu Ray capable players on the market and Blu Ray sells more software.

I am talking about the rumor (from Denon no less) that 1.1 profile disc's will not play on 1.0 profile players. I am not talking about the interactivity working, just whether the movie will play or not.

problem is average consumers have not bought into blu-ray. the vast majority of blu-ray users are using PS3s. Blu-ray will never get a large scale roll-out if it's average buyer is a PS3 user. Just won't happen. The two formats are basically neck and neck from inception (59:41 I think, which does not give either format a commanding lead).

then there's the fact blu-ray costs more. a lot more. That's not just replication (which even when subsidized is more) but plant, equipment and staffing needed in addition to DVD resources. HD-DVD rollout doesn't need additonal facilities. When you're a stuio focused on margins that matters and matters a lot.
post #70 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma View Post

That was the early reports. More recently some of the info leaking out indicates that the track pitch, spacing, or some other factor was changed to get the extra 2 gb/layer; thus the theory that perhaps the bandwidth was increased by an incremental amount (I believe the speculation revolved around 15%); this without a spin rate change. If they were just using previously unused space on the disc this obviously wouldn't have been brought up.

interesting; didn't know that. If they get it to work (which I believe they will) I guess it's a moot point.
post #71 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

My Panny is a 1st gen, a 1st piece for Panasonic for a first time format.

The fact that it will play all movies but, perhaps, no PIP is remarkable. Particularly in its reliability and stability.

I think too many early adopting folks have higher hopes that are warranted.

You emphasize this with conviction but have no proof for your statements. Natures Journey, which does not call any 1.1 functionality, had to be delayed because it causes 1st gen BD players to croak. I don't think any content provider will actually ship movies with features that will disable current players but it makes you wonder how long they will continue to wait on BD to mature before they bolt entirely.
post #72 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas View Post

You emphasize this with conviction but have no proof for your statements. Natures Journey, which does not call any 1.1 functionality, had to be delayed because it causes 1st gen BD players to croak. I don't think any content provider will actually ship movies with features that will disable current players but it makes you wonder how long they will continue to wait on BD to mature before they bolt entirely.

I can't speak to why it was delayed (But I am sure your reason is BS as fanboy posts usually are) but it was obviously the discs's authors was asleep at the wheel....
from digital bits

"We pushed the envelope with our sophisticated BD-J Menus, 37Mbps Video Encodes, and DTS-HD Master Audio," said Casey. "This caused problems for both the Professional Authoring and Compilation Tools as well as Consumer BD Players. Firmware updates and fixes had to be implemented to bring the tools and the players up to spec. We pretty much tripped up every tool and player showing their flaws and weaknesses with this release."

Casey says the Blu-ray edition of is now set for release on October 9th.



*No mention of players croaking....another fabrication (lie) on your part??



Well, looks like a delay.....Sorry they didn't cancel so as to help your flimsy argument. Ahhh...these fanboys..
post #73 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

But the BD players are solid and firmware updates update features rather than fix things (or create new issues) and as such, there are far fewer BD updates (we don't need so many).

This was the premise of YOUR thread, that BD player updates are to add features, not fix problems. Obviously, that is not true. The referenced provider broke every authoring tool and player creating content allowed within the current spec. Croak may have been a bad choice of words but the point still remains...the players didn't work when stressed with 1.0 content. And you calling someone a fanboy?
post #74 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas View Post

This was the premise of YOUR thread, that BD player updates are to add features, not fix problems. Obviously, that is not true. The referenced provider broke every authoring tool and player creating content allowed within the current spec. Croak may have been a bad choice of words but the point still remains...the players didn't work when stressed with 1.0 content. And you calling someone a fanboy?


So they make a bad disc with authoring errors (as admitted in the article).....Yet it is the Blu Ray players that are broken (or croaked, as you put it)???

Hmmm....could be fanboy coming in to the BD forum to spread misinformation...
post #75 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

That is rich indeed..... calling someone else a 'fanboy' using the digital bits to back their claim up.... at least use a news source who's checks are not signed by Sony...

So, the bits made up the interview with the discs author and made up the Oct 9 release date, too.... Oh my, it is such a conspiracy!!!!!
post #76 of 159
I am the Producer of this disc. This statement is not correct.

Read my posts to get accurate information.

Bottom line. We tripped up a few thinsg in players....including current players...that were all resolved with simple firmware updates.

Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas View Post

You emphasize this with conviction but have no proof for your statements. Natures Journey, which does not call any 1.1 functionality, had to be delayed because it causes 1st gen BD players to croak. I don't think any content provider will actually ship movies with features that will disable current players but it makes you wonder how long they will continue to wait on BD to mature before they bolt entirely.
post #77 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

I am the Producer of this disc. This statement is not correct.

Read my posts to get accurate information.

Bottom line. We tripped up a few thinsg in players....including current players...that were all resolved with simple firmware updates.

Rich

Rich,

Thank you for responding... (talk about straight from the horse's mouth)

Your interview was pretty clear about the causation of the delay.

Pardon our fanboys here, they are breeding like mice!!!
post #78 of 159
The fact is that were actually far ahead of the curve....quite the opposite of asleep at the wheel. This is pure misinformation and speculation...not all a fact. Nobody else has put out a disc like this. Read my posts to be properly informed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I can't speak to why it was delayed (But I am sure your reason is BS as fanboy posts usually are) but it was obviously the discs's authors was asleep at the wheel....
from digital bits

"We pushed the envelope with our sophisticated BD-J Menus, 37Mbps Video Encodes, and DTS-HD Master Audio," said Casey. "This caused problems for both the Professional Authoring and Compilation Tools as well as Consumer BD Players. Firmware updates and fixes had to be implemented to bring the tools and the players up to spec. We pretty much tripped up every tool and player showing their flaws and weaknesses with this release."

Casey says the Blu-ray edition of is now set for release on October 9th.



*No mention of players croaking....another fabrication (lie) on your part??



Well, looks like a delay.....Sorry they didn't cancel so as to help your flimsy argument. Ahhh...these fanboys..
post #79 of 159
Thread Starter 
No problem, I apologize for the 'asleep at the wheel' comment... I took a liberty in rebutting the other poster's awful post.


Does your disc have menus or other advanced options that will nto be available on Profile 1.0 players but readily available on Profile 1.1 or 2.0 players (e.g. PIP)??

With which format were you able to author more options with. Which did you prefer relative to the final HD DVD and BD products?

I own both player types, which would you have me buy?
post #80 of 159
Hi,

Yes, I do not care for misinformation being spread about.

It was not an interview, it was cut & pasted from an e-mail in response to his question.

Again, like any new technology ... when exploring new territory ... one is likley to find a few glitches. However, all issues were resolved with updates. None of them were showstoppers really.

Also, every HD / BD Release that has flaws to date as far as I can tell. By comparison, Nature's Journey is probably one of the most error free HD / BD products avaiable. We were all very wide awake and quite alert "behind the wheel" contrary to a comment I saw earlier in this thread.

In the end, after our experience with Chronos, we just wanted a perfect disc. Nothing wrong with that is there....



Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Rich,

Thank you for responding... (talk about straight from the horse's mouth)

Your interview was pretty clear about the causation of the delay.

Pardon our fanboys here, they are breeding like mice!!!
post #81 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Rich,

Thank you for responding... (talk about straight from the horse's mouth)

Your interview was pretty clear about the causation of the delay.

Pardon our fanboys here, they are breeding like mice!!!

Sorry bland, I'm not backing off. You said the BD players added function with firmware updates, not correct problems. From the disks producer:

I am the Producer of this disc. This statement is not correct.

Read my posts to get accurate information.

Bottom line. We tripped up a few thinsg in players....including current players...that were all resolved with simple firmware updates.

Rich

I don't care how you spin it, it sounds to me like they broke the players while authoring within the BD spec! Now, if Richard wants to say he was not in spec, I retract my statement. Otherwise, your entire premise for this thread is wrong! BD is half-baked and your premise is nothing more than BD fanboyism!
post #82 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas View Post

Sorry bland, I'm not backing off. You said the BD players added function with firmware updates, not correct problems. From the disks producer:

I am the Producer of this disc. This statement is not correct.

Read my posts to get accurate information.

Bottom line. We tripped up a few thinsg in players....including current players...that were all resolved with simple firmware updates.

Rich

I don't care how you spin it, sounds to me like they broke the players while authoring within the BD spec!


You got caught in a lie. And was busted by the discs author of all people...

Funniest thing I read all day long!!!

I am still laughing!!! Rich's timing was perfect!!! Owned!!!








































































I'm still laughing!
post #83 of 159
Im not really worried about the unfinished blu-ray spec, i watch on a ps3 which so far has proven to be fairly upgradable, and i am open to improvements and new features. Far more annoying to me is the Unfinished HDMI Spec. I Finally bought a TV with HDMI, and then find out my 1.1 HDMI doesnt support the New lossless audio. To me.. thats far more frustrating.

Dr.
post #84 of 159
The author never addressed the question. Was he in spec or not? Were updates issued to correct deficencies or not? Rich?
post #85 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_EluSivE View Post

Im not really worried about the unfinished blu-ray spec, i watch on a ps3 which so far has proven to be fairly upgradable, and i am open to improvements and new features. Far more annoying to me is the Unfinished HDMI Spec. I Finally bought a TV with HDMI, and then find out my 1.1 HDMI doesnt support the New lossless audio. To me.. thats far more frustrating.

Dr.

Don't sweat it, because your PS3 won't send it there anyway.
post #86 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post

That is rich indeed..... calling someone else a 'fanboy' using the digital bits to back their claim up.... at least use a news source who's checks are not signed by Sony...

I suppose we can make sure next time we see a HD-DVD thread, we better make sure that Microsoft Exec aren't in the house either... LOL I hardly think Bill Hunt is on Sony payroll, but you never know, I think a lot of early adopters are still pissed at him for taking sides... At least he stands by it...
post #87 of 159
i agree with the bland
just play the dam movies
post #88 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

You got caught in a lie. And was busted by the discs author of all people...

Funniest thing I read all day long!!!

I am still laughing!!! Rich's timing was perfect!!! Owned!!!

I'm still laughing!

Actually it seems pretty clear to me that Rich said you were wrong to blame the authors! I thought he was rather good about the whole thing considering you basically accused his team of being incompetent.




Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas View Post

The author never addressed the question. Was he in spec or not? Were updates issued to correct deficencies or not? Rich?

He seems to be saying in a nice way that they pushed the BD spec and found some problems. Not authoring problems. Not to put words in anyone's mouth...
post #89 of 159
I did not realize that was the question.

We were 100% in spec from the begining....and were 100% within spec out the door. All issues were resolved by firmware updates to players and updates to the professional tools where required.

I would go as far as to say that this disc had more QC than any other BD product released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanDallas View Post

The author never addressed the question. Was he in spec or not? Were updates issued to correct deficencies or not? Rich?
post #90 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFilms View Post

I did not realize that was the question.

We were 100% in spec from the begining....and were 100% within spec out the door. All issues were resolved by firmware updates to players and updates to the professional tools where required.

I would go as far as to say that this disc had more QC than any other BD product released.

Rich: since your a inside person, what is your take on where this format war will go? I see it being divided for some time to come.. If that is the case Universal players will be the ticket, and also what do you think of this 3rd HD format coming down the pipeline.... One last question, what is your take on the spec issue, I don't see it being that big of a problem as some would like to make it. Most general consumers, just want to press play and watch a movie, most movie buffs like us like the extra stuff on some movies... Thanks for any input.....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Blu Ray's 'unfinished' spec....Thank goodness!