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The $64K Question: Will HD-Lite Continue on D*TV...

post #1 of 281
Thread Starter 
...with new satellite capacity?

Finally in a position to see how bad HD-Lite is. Did an "apples to apples" comparison of D*TV (MPEG4) vs. cable and NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

Have new Pio 60' (6010FD) plasma and hooked up BOTH the new D*TV HR20 PVR and Cablevision Io HD on Saturday -- both are connected DIRECTLY to the plasma with HDMI connections. Sunday Night Football was on D*TV and I was "disappointed" by the picture; I then switched to cable and WOW!!! -- much nicer picture! Toggled back and forth and was amazed by the difference. Also asked my 16-year old son to look and he agreed with the dramatic difference.

Isn't the new MPEG4 technology for locals (only available on the new receivers) "supposed" to look better than MPEG2? Isn't MPEG4 being shown in NYC for locals on the new receivers? Someone correct me?

Got the new HR20 in anticipation of the new D*TV channels PLUS the hope HD-Lite would be gone forever...here's to hoping and praying D*Tv. If you don't dramatically improve quality with this capacity, it is clear you NEVER will.

As a result, this PATIENT, long-term supporter (since 1994) will finally concede and drop you once and for all -- am watching carefully D*TV -- the balls in your court now...please prove me wrong!!!!!
post #2 of 281
I am in a position where I am about to pull the trigger and switch to D* from fios. Mostly because they don't have my RSN in HD in the dc area. But also because I currently have teh old mpeg 2 stuff in the basement form D* that I have hooked up for Season Ticket in the fall. So I currently see the difference between the two on Sundays. It is a pretty big difference. The question is is it a difference that I can live with if I make the switch?

That is the question that I have not answered my self.
post #3 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

The $64K Question: Will HD-Lite Continue on D*TV...with new satellite capacity?

Yes indeed, that is the $64,000 question.

And unfortunately, there is no good answer at this time.

Proponents of both sides of the issue (Yes, D* will continue to do HDLite - No way, HDLite will be a thing of the past for D*) have been going at it for quite some time now. The reality of the matter is that the answer will probably not be known anytime soon. Even after the initial lightup, bugs will have to be worked out, evaluations will have to be made, and it could take months before a final disposition is reached.
post #4 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

...with new satellite capacity?

Have new Pio 60' (6010FD) plasma and hooked up BOTH the new D*TV HR20 PVR and Cablevision Io HD on Saturday -- both are connected DIRECTLY to the plasma with HDMI connections. Sunday Night Football was on D*TV and I was "disappointed" by the picture; I then switched to cable and WOW!!! -- much nicer picture! Toggled back and forth and was amazed by the difference. Also asked my 16-year old son to look and he agreed with the dramatic difference.

Isn't the new MPEG4 technology for locals (only available on the new receivers) "supposed" to look better than MPEG2? Isn't MPEG4 being shown in NYC for locals on the new receivers? Someone correct me?

i think your experience is in the minority. there have been a lot of posts in other threads about the quality of the mpeg4 locals on d*, with the vast majority of comments being positive. my own experience is that the mpeg4 locals through d* are as good as my ota quality.

whether that remains the case as d* adds more hd channels and markets remains to be seen. but as of now, i have no complaints over mpeg4 quality.
post #5 of 281
All I can add is..if the upcoming Directv HD channels look the same as my local stations via Directv, then I shall be satisfied. For these locals (from Directv) look as good as the local digital tv stations via my antenna. I am most pleased. Anything much beyond this quality will probably have to wait until many years have passed. Images on our display are clean and clear with almost zero breakup, etc. Of course, 40 years from now all this will look quite primitive. But, for now, it is what we have and we should enjoy!
post #6 of 281
Thread Starter 
Interesting comments, but most of you missed my initial point -- why is my local cable signal THAT much better than D*TV's??? If most of you are "satisfied" with the relative HD-Lite crap from D*TV -- good for you. I, for one, am not!!!! This new launch will FINALLY answer the question for me....
post #7 of 281
I'm plenty satisfied with the supposed "HD-Lite"....
post #8 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

The reality of the matter is that the answer will probably not be known anytime soon. Even after the initial lightup, bugs will have to be worked out, evaluations will have to be made, and it could take months before a final disposition is reached.

Ken -- WHY months???

D*TV has all of this new capacity...why not give us the best signal possible when the new channels are added??? To conscientously continue to downrez the signal is a CLEAR CUT signal to most of us what D*TV's ultimate model really is --- quantity to the ignorant masses and those of us searching for quality to continue to search elsewhere...really sad if D*TV does this, PLUS jacking up the HD packages too!!! Amazing!!!

I simply do NOT understand how my local digital cable has such a superior HD signal and now after all of this new capacity, HD-Lite will continue??? Will know once and for all in a couple of days...
post #9 of 281
I did a comparison last night on sunday night football NBC (Mpeg4 from D* and OTA). both looked terrible, severe blurring. I'm curious how cable got a better picture then OTA? There are threads on how bad NBC looked last night from many providers.
post #10 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post

I'm plenty satisfied with the supposed "HD-Lite"....

You wouldn't be if you saw the signal on my local cable compared to the "HD" D*TV is currently providing (re-read my original post)...I guess ignorance is bliss!!!!
post #11 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TulsaCoker View Post

I did a comparison last night on sunday night football NBC (Mpeg4 from D* and OTA). both looked terrible, severe blurring. I'm curious how cable got a better picture then OTA? There are threads on how bad NBC looked last night from many providers.

Not true at my house -- please re-read my original post!!!
post #12 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

Interesting comments, but most of you missed my initial point -- why is my local cable signal THAT much better than D*TV's??? If most of you are "satisfied" with the relative HD-Lite crap from D*TV -- good for you. I, for one, am not!!!! This new launch will FINALLY answer the question for me....

i don't think i missed your point. i am satisfied because mpeg4 picture quality in comparison to the purest signal available - ota - is equal. it is not as if i am putting up with something less than the best picture i can get. why you are not getting the same quality of mpeg4 most of the rest of us are, i can't answer.
post #13 of 281
Thread Starter 
Before I get attacked by all of the D*TV apologists, let me make it clear I AM a BIG D*TV supporter and an early adopter (1994), ALWAYS getting the "new" toys (Tivo, HD, HDTivo and so on).

I remember the days when D*TV first came out and my neighbors saw my set up, the quality and little dishes popped up all over the neighborhood. Over time, cable caught up, D*TV started degrading their signals (for more channels) and less and less people kept their dishes, etc. When HD first came out, it was WOW!!!, once again, but then quickly HD-Lite was born.

I was at my neighbors about a year ago and saw a baseball game on his HD TV and was like WOW!! -- what a picture. Why not like that at my house?? He had local HD cable, but I couldn't believe cable by itself provided such a better picture. I then began on ongoing quest to find out the cause of these picture differences. HD-Lite?? My TV vs. his??

I got my Mitsubishi 65" Diamond HD TV calibrated (it MUST be the TV) -- NO!! I FINALLY broke down and added cable 6 months ago and WOW!! -- great picture for the same channels vs. D*TV. Being patient, I said well maybe its this Mpeg2 vs. Mpeg4 thing and said let's see what happens...

Well, now I have the Mpeg4 boxes and STILL cable is way better!! All that is left is HD-Lite and WHETHER OR NOT D*TV will give us a better signal in a couple of days or not.

I have done my research, done my homework, can make apples to apples comparisons (as per my original post) and I will see what D*TV FINALLY does soon. Those of you who know better (and there are quite a few of you on this board and dbstalk) know what I am saying is true and are also waiting for an answer once and for all.

The rest of you that are "happy" with your signals and NEVER saw the original HD signal from D*TV and/or do not have the ability to see my local cable HD picture, continue to believe D*TV's BS about them providing the "best picture". Many of us know better...

I SINCERELY hope that D*TV will stop downrezzing their signals to the ignorant masses and give us a great HD signal. I could then, once again, get all of my friends, family and neighbors to get the new dishes back on their roofs -- imagine the word of mouth if QUALITY was back at D*TV??!!?? Until then, I have seen with my own eyes, the superior signal our local cable provides. That is why I am the only one in the neighborhood that still has D*TV -- in the hope that FINALLY we get a QUALITY HD signal once again!!

I for one am glad I can afford cable too -- that's where I watch ALL of my HD programming that's available....
post #14 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckybadger View Post

i don't think i missed your point. i am satisfied because mpeg4 picture quality in comparison to the purest signal available - ota - is equal. it is not as if i am putting up with something less than the best picture i can get. why you are not getting the same quality of mpeg4 most of the rest of us are, i can't answer.

No....let me try again!! I am getting a BETTER signal than your local OTA or D*TV signal -- if that is true, D*TV is capable of providing you AT LEAST the same quality signal I am getting from my local cable company. Why not???? HMMMMMMMMMMM....
post #15 of 281
Not to question your intelligence here, but I know NYC big4 locals are on the Conus Sat in mpeg2 hd-lite. I can say those channels do look worse than locals OTA or my areas HD-LIL MPEG4. I have never had D* within the NYC spotbeam, but one thing to check would be whether or not they are rebroadcasting the big four in mpeg4 or just mapping the mpeg2 signal to channel 2,4,5, and 7 instead of in the 80s. The quality of MPEG4 HD-LIL for Jacksonville, FL rivals OTA reception quite well.
post #16 of 281
We might find out soon enough, but as Ken H mentioned, it might be awhile before a final verdict is available, if ever. The capacity will be there, yes, but there will likely be numerous tweaks for DirecTV to make after they make their first uplink to the new D10 satellite.

What I'm hoping is that we will find out fairly quickly whether or not DirecTV will continue down-rezzing. Personally, I think the resolution is sufficient - it's the bitrate that I hope they don't penny-pinch too much.

We shall see soon enough. It certainly looks like DirecTV is getting real close to turning the first of the new HD channels very soon.
post #17 of 281
Is it possible your cable company is getting a raw feed from your local NBC? Did you compare OTA with the MPEG4 feed from D*?
post #18 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

Well, now I have the Mpeg4 boxes and STILL cable is way better!! All that is left is HD-Lite and WHETHER OR NOT D*TV will give us a better signal in a couple of days or not.

You are confused. The MPEG4 box itself is only part of the equation. It will not make the existing MPEG2 channels look any different, you'll have to view the MPEG4 locals.
post #19 of 281
Quote:


Finally in a position to see how bad HD-Lite is. Did an "apples to apples" comparison of D*TV (MPEG4) vs. cable and NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

Are you sure you were watching the MPEG4 feed and not the MPEG2 feed. NBC is still MPEG2 in the 80's. Sure you had the receiver set to channel 4? My MPEG4 feeds are just about transparent to OTA in NJ.

I'm in Robbinsville, too.
post #20 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Is it possible your cable company is getting a raw feed from your local NBC? Did you compare OTA with the MPEG4 feed from D*?

I was going to ask the same thing. Our Cable Company (TWC) gets a direct fiber feed from CBS and FOX. I'm not sure about the others.

Jeff
post #21 of 281
My answer to this would be: Possibly Yes, unless maybe it's no, erroring on the side of hopefully but not being too optimistic that it will unless it is, then that's great.
post #22 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

Ken -- WHY months???

Already explained, bugs, evaluations, etc. More? New hardware at the head end. Believe me, it's a lot more complicated than you know.


Quote:


I simply do NOT understand how my local digital cable has such a superior HD signal and now after all of this new capacity, HD-Lite will continue??? Will know once and for all in a couple of days...

By your own admission, there are a number of things you don't understand, and I would have to agree. So, why not just wait & see what happens, rather than getting agitated now? If D* continues HDLite, there will be lots of time for that later.....
post #23 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

No....let me try again!! I am getting a BETTER signal than your local OTA or D*TV signal

you live in new jersey. i live in kansas city. how can you possibly know that your cable signal is better than my ota picture?
post #24 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

Not true at my house -- please re-read my original post!!!

I guess my question was if NBC was having issues with Sunday Night Football and it was noticed by viewers across the country with different providers (OTA, different cable cos, D* and E*) why then was your signal from your cable co so great that you were WOW'ed?
post #25 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

You wouldn't be if you saw the signal on my local cable compared to the "HD" D*TV is currently providing (re-read my original post)...I guess ignorance is bliss!!!!

I've watched plenty of HD on Cox cable (on a Mitsu 52" DLP) and while the pic was nice..it wasn't much better than anything I've seen on D*...

Call me ignorant if you wish...but it's just TV and I don't get too nutted up about it like some folks apparently do.
post #26 of 281
The OP never mentioned whether he installed a 5 LNB dish when he got an HR20. If he's still got the old 3 LNB dish, he's only watching the MPEG2 locals and it's not a fair comparison. My MPEG4 locals are nearly identical to OTA in Atlanta. If OTA is 100/100, MPEG4 is 95/100, in my experience.
post #27 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by perilous View Post

.

Finally in a position to see how bad HD-Lite is. Did an "apples to apples" comparison of D*TV (MPEG4) vs. cable and NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

Did a similar test last night on the SNF game. It was ugly via Time Warner cable, and ugly via an OTA. In other words, I don't put much faith in your test. Need more data.
post #28 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradleyGreen View Post

Not to question your intelligence here, but I know NYC big4 locals are on the Conus Sat in mpeg2 hd-lite. I can say those channels do look worse than locals OTA or my areas HD-LIL MPEG4. I have never had D* within the NYC spotbeam, but one thing to check would be whether or not they are rebroadcasting the big four in mpeg4 or just mapping the mpeg2 signal to channel 2,4,5, and 7 instead of in the 80s. The quality of MPEG4 HD-LIL for Jacksonville, FL rivals OTA reception quite well.

Thanks...if that is true (we aren't getting Mpeg4 yet in NYC), that answers one of my original questions in the thread starter...I would wonder why they wouldn't be providing the best signal they could in the #1 market though????
post #29 of 281
From what I have heard , COX down rezzes similar to D*. I know that my Dad has it and it looks really weak, just not very crisp.
post #30 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

You are confused. The MPEG4 box itself is only part of the equation. It will not make the existing MPEG2 channels look any different, you'll have to view the MPEG4 locals.

I thought the new boxes (HR20 vs. HR10) were needed to "see" the Mpeg4 locals -- you mean to tell me we are NOT getting Mpeg4 in NYC??? Where can I determine this or not? And, if not, WHEN???
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