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Mods from HiRez?? - Page 7

post #181 of 240
yikes, all this bickering and shouting among people in a hobby that is very small and getting smaller with every new LCD that hits the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

As far as being the new guys we have been around longer than most. We purchased Madrigal Imaging, Vidikrons Service Department and just made a deal with Runco for their worldwide CRT service. We have a 12000 sqf foot facility.

One of the things I would like to know about the Hi -rez mods is approx. How many components are replaced on the stock boards. I know MP has been refining his mods for 5 years now, that's a long time. I also know he replaces approx. 150 components on the VIM and 3 VNB's, that's a LOT of de-soldering and re-soldering. Gary in lieu of a description of how the Hi-rex package will affect the pic, can you tell us approximately how many parts you guys replace?
One thing I will say is that you guys have an impressive sounding facility. It's great that East coast people have that kind of support for their CRT hobby. One of the things that I think is also very important in sending boards or modules to someone to be repaired or modified is turnaround time. If someone were to pull their entire Video chain out of their machine and send them to hi-Rez for modifications, what is the typcial turnaround time?
thanks, DM
post #182 of 240
Ok here is what is happening so far. Gary from Hi-Rez just called and said he will send me out a complete set of boards to do a blind test. He'll post tonight on some things he'd like to have in the test and asked me to start a new thread on what those requirements will be as decided by US on the forum. I know you people don't know me and neither does gary so i guess he feels it best for me to do the reviewing. so in about a month or so The boards will be here. He also agreed with me that it should be done in the end users machine and that a weekend would not give enough time to remove properly set up and do a Complete evaluation. He said we can review the mods as long as we need to make sure everything will be equal. Who and how we get people here to review is something we will have to figure out. Or before hand i can set up each mod to a different memory so all that is needed would be a board swap. He also agreed he would only send the same boards that the other parties do there mods to, ie. vim vnb,ect.

I'll post back after we get a post from Gary tonight or tommorow

Athanasios
post #183 of 240
It doesn't matter which set of mods are best if you can't get them. Maybe you can do an availability shootout. First one to produce 10 complete sets of mods wins. This shootout could take years to complete.
post #184 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post

It doesn't matter which set of mods are best if you can't get them. Maybe you can do an availability shootout. First one to produce 10 complete sets of mods wins. This shootout could take years to complete.

lol true! well i got a verbal promiss form one. so we'll jut have to wait and see.

Athanasios
post #185 of 240
Athanasios,

I was just kidding when I posted that, but now that I think about it, availability probably does matter more than performance. You might be better off opting for the easiest to get mod set. Assuming they're all fairly close in performance, you'd be better off with whatever mod you can get now (even if it's the worst performer), rather than waiting possibly years for the best performer. Years from now, you may no longer even own a CRT PJ.
post #186 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

I disagree.

I am not a CRT expert, you guys are king in this turf

From my CRT days ( Im rusty, brushing off the cobwebs ) adding a new board ( depending on the board of course ) could very well have effect on the beam spot and require re adjusting the mags to optimize that board. So there would be a chance a new board thrown in without a complete re calibration would result in everyone seeing less detail. I doubt you guys will have the time to do a complete A chain calibration for every board you swap out.
post #187 of 240
Call me cynical, but I'm going to predict that this mod shootout will eventually fizzle out and not happen just like all of the other ones.
post #188 of 240
Well thanks for asking me to be part of making up a list but I'll pass on the invite. I think Mike, Greg and Gary collectively should decide what patterns/tests/ discs should be used to test their mods.

I don't understand why people think it is such a big deal to setup up the projector for each set of boards. This is only the video portion of the projector we're dealing with here guys, redo the gray scale and the brightness/contrast and get on with it. Should be no need to change anything else and use only one projector which all boards will work in or were intended to work in. Of course ehomes are not Greg's strong point, so does Gary do Barco mods too, because we all know Mike does both.
post #189 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post

It doesn't matter which set of mods are best if you can't get them. Maybe you can do an availability shootout. First one to produce 10 complete sets of mods wins. This shootout could take years to complete.

10 sets is too hard. First one to produce even one set could be declared the winner
As I have stated in the past I have always thought the biggest problem with any of the known mods is turnaround time. 1 month would be bearable but it's typically 2 or 3 AFAIK.
post #190 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

At first it was Greg. 5 people would post to him several questions, and then 4 other people would also join the thread and ask the same questions. Greg would later post on the thread several times, on several post, but will not answer the questions. After maybe 3 or 4 days to week later, he'll chime in with an answer, but it's not an answer..

Now, here come Gary. He does the exact things that Greg always does, he for some reason cannot see the questions being asked in the thread. Maybe there's something wrong with the forum's program, that will not allow these two guys to see the questions being asked. Maybe the next time when we ask questions, we should not use the "?" mark, but put this after the question: (Question here).

And in a previous thread, I read where Gary states that he had read back over the thread. And even admitting to going back over and reading the post again, he still did not see the many questions that were asked..

As a Lawyer, are the questions being asked something that a person can plead the 5th on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post

It doesn't matter which set of mods are best if you can't get them. Maybe you can do an availability shootout. First one to produce 10 complete sets of mods wins. This shootout could take years to complete.


I could ship a set Friday.

Gary
post #191 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTS View Post

Well thanks for asking me to be part of making up a list but I'll pass on the invite. I think Mike, Greg and Gary collectively should decide what patterns/tests/ discs should be used to test their mods.

I don't understand why people think it is such a big deal to setup up the projector for each set of boards. This is only the video portion of the projector we're dealing with here guys, redo the gray scale and the brightness/contrast and get on with it. Should be no need to change anything else and use only one projector which all boards will work in or were intended to work in. Of course ehomes are not Greg's strong point, so does Gary do Barco mods too, because we all know Mike does both.

I do not need to be involved in what you use. The only input that I want is to make sure it is fair for all.

Gary
post #192 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

lol true! well i got a verbal promiss form one. so we'll jut have to wait and see.

Athanasios

We are ready please get a thread going on how to test. Again I am only interested in it being fair. I do not care how we test as long as it is the same for all.

Gary
post #193 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

yikes, all this bickering and shouting among people in a hobby that is very small and getting smaller with every new LCD that hits the market.

One of the things I would like to know about the Hi -rez mods is approx. How many components are replaced on the stock boards. I know MP has been refining his mods for 5 years now, that's a long time. I also know he replaces approx. 150 components on the VIM and 3 VNB's, that's a LOT of de-soldering and re-soldering. Gary in lieu of a description of how the Hi-rex package will affect the pic, can you tell us approximately how many parts you guys replace?
One thing I will say is that you guys have an impressive sounding facility. It's great that East coast people have that kind of support for their CRT hobby. One of the things that I think is also very important in sending boards or modules to someone to be repaired or modified is turnaround time. If someone were to pull their entire Video chain out of their machine and send them to hi-Rez for modifications, what is the typcial turnaround time?
thanks, DM


Guys please do not read anything into this but the quanity of parts replaced dose not make any difference. I could replace the 10 right parts or the wrong 100 with all respect more is not better.

Gary
post #194 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

We are ready please get a thread going on how to test. Again I am only interested in it being fair. I do not care how we test as long as it is the same for all.

Gary

The only way it can be fair is that we use the same projector for all board testing. And as Walter pointed, the only thing that would be different between the boards is the gray scale and convergence. And that can be eyeball tweaked quickly.

The testing should involve all the boards sets, which are the 50-2035-02P VIM, 50-203503P VIM and either of the 50-2038-01P or 50-2039-01P which are the 8" and 9" neck boards.

All test should be done using 1920x1080P only. And we'll do both 60hz and 72hz. to include pushing the scan rate to see which handles the highest bandwidth.

Both test patterns and movie clips will be used.
post #195 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

I could ship a set Friday.

Gary

Get them out to Greg, and have them ready by the weekend of the 28th.
post #196 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

Guys please do not read anything into this but the quanity of parts replaced dose not make any difference. I could replace the 10 right parts or the wrong 100 with all respect more is not better.

Gary


In the 5 to 6 years of doing this, there's a lot to learn about these boards. So initially, my first mods only required a very few parts, but as time went on, that changed. now I have to replace many parts. trust me, it's not something I want to do, it's very necessary for what I'm now doing.
post #197 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

The only way it can be fair is that we use the same projector for all board testing. And as Walter pointed, the only thing that would be different between the boards is the gray scale and convergence. And that can be eyeball tweaked quickly.

The testing should involve all the boards sets, which are the 50-2035-02P VIM, 50-203503P VIM and either of the 50-2038-01P or 50-2039-01P which are the 8" and 9" neck boards.

All test should be done using 1920x1080P only. And we'll do both 60hz and 72hz. to include pushing the scan rate to see which handles the highest bandwidth.

Both test patterns and movie clips will be used.


Mike,

Works for me.

Gary
post #198 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

Mike,

Works for me.

Gary

Great!
post #199 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

Get them out to Greg, and have them ready by the weekend of the 28th.

When we get this all settled we will ship the boards. The boards should arrive on the same day.

Gary
post #200 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

In the 5 to 6 years of doing this, there's a lot to learn about these boards. So initially, my first mods only required a very few parts, but as time went on, that changed. now I have to replace many parts. trust me, it's not something I want to do, it's very necessary for what I'm now doing.

Mike,

As we do. I was just pointing out more is not better. Correct is better. I think we agree.

Gary
post #201 of 240
You guys picked the 28th? The day of the breeder's cup. I'll be at the track. AAghh. Send me the screen shots. LOL
post #202 of 240
We would like to ship our other mods when the test is done if anyone wants to see them they can.

Gary
post #203 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

You guys picked the 28th? The day of the breeder's cup. I'll be at the track. AAghh. Send me the screen shots. LOL

Mark,

That was proposed by Mike if we get the details done by that we can do that. At this point it is not etched in stone for that date.

Gary
post #204 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

Mike,

As we do. I was just pointing out more is not better. Correct is better. I think we agree.

Gary

I've come as far as I'm going with these mods. Not that I have reached their fullest potential, it's just time to move on to something else. And that's why the sales have been put on hold. I'm looking for someone local to do the board work, then I'm turning it over to Tim to handle.

I think you're doing the right thing by sending a set of boards out to Athanasios. Have him sign a NDA, and let him give you feedback before the the day of the event. With mods. it's always best to have other eyes also checking things before final. I've learned to do the same thing over time.
post #205 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

yikes, all this bickering and shouting among people in a hobby that is very small and getting smaller with every new LCD that hits the market.

One of the things I would like to know about the Hi -rez mods is approx. How many components are replaced on the stock boards. I know MP has been refining his mods for 5 years now, that's a long time. I also know he replaces approx. 150 components on the VIM and 3 VNB's, that's a LOT of de-soldering and re-soldering. Gary in lieu of a description of how the Hi-rex package will affect the pic, can you tell us approximately how many parts you guys replace?
One thing I will say is that you guys have an impressive sounding facility. It's great that East coast people have that kind of support for their CRT hobby. One of the things that I think is also very important in sending boards or modules to someone to be repaired or modified is turnaround time. If someone were to pull their entire Video chain out of their machine and send them to hi-Rez for modifications, what is the typcial turnaround time?
thanks, DM

I feel the same way..

Knowing exactly what I would get for my money is precisely what I'm after- the information on HiRes's site is vague and feels like "marketing spiel" ... When I ask for information, I really want that list to be 1) volunteered without having to ask for it and 2) specific, not esoteric.

I'll look forward to the results of the shootout.
post #206 of 240
My last post.
I sold CRT projectors for years when they wre still in production. I remember replacing boards on occasion for customers and most of the time the board had some sort of interaction that required me to do some touch up. different parts with different voltage levels etc. When I read here swapping boards will not have any effect I just do not believe that. This thing is doomed from the get go without everyone supplying mods not being there.
Ok Ill shut up
post #207 of 240
Another point is pricing. How are the HiRes mods pricing structured?
post #208 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

Guys please do not read anything into this but the quanity of parts replaced dose not make any difference. I could replace the 10 right parts or the wrong 100 with all respect more is not better.Gary

well it's really hard not to read something into that statement Gary, but i'll try. i'm not a board level tech. and certainly don;t know enough to re-engineer a circuit but I do know that the video chain in a marquee is exactly that, it's a chain. Replacing just a few parts will have less effect that re-designing entire sections of it for improved performance @ higher bandwidth's .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

My last post. I sold CRT projectors for years when they wre still in production.

Please don't say "back when they WERE still in production". This thread is dealing almost entirely with Marquee CRT projectors which are very much STILL in production. Maybe not cranking off the assmbly lines like they used to but you can still pick up the phone and get brand new 8110,8500, or 9500.
http://vdcds.com/crtprojectors.html
post #209 of 240
Here is a new post for the shoot out.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=917818



Athanasios
post #210 of 240
The actual video chain in a Marquee is the vim, three RGB wires, and three neck boards. That's the entire signal pathway.

The rest of the boards do other things some of which could for all I know make substantial improvements. Clearly a few parts substitutions or additions to those boards are beneficial. MP has set them forth in the Marquee maintenca threads. Hi-Rez's modifications to other boards are more substantial. One of the issues here is those mods help in a meaningful way. So the test is pathway boards and then other boards in addition to pathway boards.

I think it is foolish and doomed to non meaningful A/B not to use two different machines. What I want, and what I think I can speak for others is using two machines and having the manufacturers or a designated rep do the install and set up.. Not look at one for a bit. Rip it up and install the new stuff. Look a bit and then conclude the FLAMJET ones are better. We could do it right or fluck it up one more time. This should be done right once. I am allowed to be right every once and awhile and I am right here.

Feel free nonmanufacturers to chime in. What do you think? I am gone Thurs through Tues. I hope this doesn't break down but I am not willing to get involved unless you guys are going to do it right and not in a way that doesn't settle anything.

No I won't shut up. Alan and I, competitors, do know a little something here. I am an engineer. I know what I speak here.
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