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Mods from HiRez?? - Page 2

post #31 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post

This is assuming that the D/A conversion is a difficult task. My understanding--which is admittedly very limited (to say the least)--is it's not.

You can drink water out of a Tiffany's crystal wine glass, or drink it out of a paper cup. One method makes you feel more snooty than the other, but your thirst is equally quenched using either method.

Phil - the D/A conversion process is definately a 'weak link'. From my also limited understanding:

In the HDFurys case, it uses the I SiI907B chip, using RGB 4:4:4 8 bit - with a 165Mhz pixel clock ceiling. I believe the Moome (IIRC) has the same limitation. In theory, you cannot use 1080P/72hz. Also every HDMI source must be in RGB 4:4:4

In a "good" VPs case, (for example) My C2 supposedly supports 1080P/72 and 75. (Does anyone know how they overcome the 165Mhz pixel clock ceiling? (defined in the HDMI standards) Maybe it automagically reduces the horizontal resolution in which case its cheating and much of point is moot) The C2 also allows manual adjustments to the clock phase and pixel clock (source width).

Also the HDMI sources don't have to be RGB 4:4:4 - my VP supports YCbCr 4:2:2 and YCbCr 4:4:4.

So in this case, yes, the paper cup can hold water- but the crystal chalice is bigger and you don't have to drink it through a straw (and you can drink other things like wine - whereas in this situation, your cup is limited to just water (RGB 4:4:4)

Not all D/A conversion are considered equal. That's why there are people that spend a fortune on outboard DACs for their CD players, good DVD players have 12 bit sampling - the list goes on.

By the way - don't get the wrong idea, i LOVE the HDFury - it is a great tool. Especially for the price - and I understand the Moome is also a great product. But they are very turnkey and do not give much ability to function outside their limited (but entirely adequate) functions.


Kind regards
post #32 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post

You can drink water out of a Tiffany's crystal wine glass, or drink it out of a paper cup. One method makes you feel more snooty than the other, but your thirst is equally quenched using either method.

I'm not sure that is a good analagy, as the type of cup you use to drink anything will have a subtle effect on it's taste. That is no myth.
post #33 of 240
I'll drink to that!
post #34 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverg View Post


In a "good" VPs case, (for example) My C2 supposedly supports 1080P/72 and 75. (Does anyone know how they overcome the 165Mhz pixel clock ceiling? (defined in the HDMI standards) Maybe it automagically reduces the horizontal resolution in which case its cheating and much of point is moot) The C2 also allows manual adjustments to the clock phase and pixel clock (source width).


Kind regards



The C2 will not go higher than 165 MHz, a tech on the PMS site even stated that it's behaviour can not be predicted over 150MHz.

this really sucks not being able to do 1080P 72/75 Hz over analogue with any VP and the slightest hope for an external 'smart' DAC from Lumagen is gone as well, just not enough people interested

Moome's HDMI Marquee card does show 1080P 72/75Hz but with the picture
overstretched (front/back porches and sync widths need to be adjusted)

Michael
post #35 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

The C2 will not go higher than 165 MHz, a tech on the PMS site even stated that it's behaviour can not be predicted over 150MHz.

this really sucks not being able to do 1080P 72/75 Hz over analogue with any VP and the slightest hope for an external 'smart' DAC from Lumagen is gone as well, just not enough people interested

Moome's HDMI Marquee card does show 1080P 72/75Hz but with the picture
overstretched (front/back porches and sync widths need to be adjusted)

Michael

Hi Michael - I think this is a HDMI limitation - 1.3 is meant to 'fix' this. But the C2 wont support it, so I'm guessing it will be a C3?

With any luck the C3 will support blending in a single unit and will support 1080P/96/120. Mike Parker will be tearing his hair out trying to mod video chains to support *grin*
post #36 of 240
Oliver,

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverg View Post

Phil - the D/A conversion process is definately a 'weak link'. From my also limited understanding:

In the HDFurys case, it uses the I SiI907B chip, using RGB 4:4:4 8 bit - with a 165Mhz pixel clock ceiling. I believe the Moome (IIRC) has the same limitation. In theory, you cannot use 1080P/72hz. Also every HDMI source must be in RGB 4:4:4

In a "good" VPs case, (for example) My C2 supposedly supports 1080P/72 and 75. (Does anyone know how they overcome the 165Mhz pixel clock ceiling? (defined in the HDMI standards) Maybe it automagically reduces the horizontal resolution in which case its cheating and much of point is moot) The C2 also allows manual adjustments to the clock phase and pixel clock (source width).

Also the HDMI sources don't have to be RGB 4:4:4 - my VP supports YCbCr 4:2:2 and YCbCr 4:4:4.

So in this case, yes, the paper cup can hold water- but the crystal chalice is bigger and you don't have to drink it through a straw (and you can drink other things like wine - whereas in this situation, your cup is limited to just water (RGB 4:4:4)

It may be due to my ignorance, but I'm not finding any differences. The current Moome specs:

* HDMI input resolutions: 640x480 up to 1600x1200 (PC), and 480p up to 1080p at 60Hz (Video). (Any resolution and refresh rate up to 165Mhz pixel clock is supported).
* DTV mode support (480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p) for 50 and 60Hz
* Component Input resolutions: 480p, 1080i, 720p, 1080p
* Supports 4:4:4 RGB / YCbCr Input
* Supports 4:2:2 YCbCr input
* Supports both 16-235 and 0-255 colour range and auto selects correct value

Quote:


Not all D/A conversion are considered equal. That's why there are people that spend a fortune on outboard DACs for their CD players, good DVD players have 12 bit sampling - the list goes on.

Some people say all AC power cords are not equal either. To convince me, I need something other than repeating the marketing hype of the manufacturers. The manufacturers are NOT where you go to get the real story.

Quote:


By the way - don't get the wrong idea, i LOVE the HDFury - it is a great tool. Especially for the price - and I understand the Moome is also a great product. But they are very turnkey and do not give much ability to function outside their limited (but entirely adequate) functions.

This is the "A $1,000 AC cord has to perform better than a $5 AC cord because it cost more!" I'm not sure that Moome and HDFury transcoders can't 100% handle the job. Maybe the job at hand only requires a $150 device. Anything else is overkill.
post #37 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

I'm not sure that is a good analagy, as the type of cup you use to drink anything will have a subtle effect on it's taste. That is no myth.

True, and that's why I didn't mention anything about taste.

But that's nick picky anyway Eddie. Booooooo!
post #38 of 240
Or said another way, the water has no memory of what it's placed in or who's mouth it winds up in

Regards
David
post #39 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post

True, and that's why I didn't mention anything about taste.

But that's nick picky anyway Eddie. Booooooo!


If you were going to quote me, then the least you could have done is to correct my spelling.
post #40 of 240
Thread Starter 
All,
Just wanted to clairify. I do have one of my 9500LCs up and running..... and enjoying it. I am, as you can guess on the fence about a stack and mods. Thanks for all of the great feedback. I have pretty much decided that a stack is possible, although the wife would hate it, I could do an over, under setup. This seems like deminished returns though and would pull away from my goal of a more defined picture, which seems possible with MP mods.

Jim
post #41 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Parys View Post

All,
Just wanted to clairify. I do have one of my 9500LCs up and running..... and enjoying it. I am, as you can guess on the fence about a stack and mods. Thanks for all of the great feedback. I have pretty much decided that a stack is possible, although the wife would hate it, I could do an over, under setup. This seems like deminished returns though and would pull away from my goal of a more defined picture, which seems possible with MP mods.

Jim

Glad you finaly have it set up to enjoy. Like you Jim, I too am undecided with what to do, stack,blend, single ect. and every time i fire up my lowly Marquee 8000 I am just totaly at aww. I still cant belive what a great pixel free image this machine throws on my way to big 12 foot screen. Yes its a little dim, but the clarity and no screen door effec that my digital had is enough for me. and after watching a great movie i think "why should i stack,blend or mod! this is awsome!" so untill i see an actual stack or blend in person i am happy for now and probably will be for a long time. But if i do decide to spenm any disposable income i have it will be for the MP mods. mikes work is legendary and I deffinatley want to be part of that legend.

Athanasios
post #42 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

If you wer gong to quote mi, than the yeast you coud have don is to korract my spilling.

Sorry Eddie!
post #43 of 240
Jim, glad to hear you are up and running.

Phil, sorry - its a known fact, not all D/As are equal. They just aren't. Sample size, sample depth etc all contribute to quality.

This isn't some power cord comparison, this is scientific fact. As you have admitted, your knowledge on this subject is limited. If you do some more research, you will discover very quickly that the quality of DACs make a huge difference in picture (or even audio) quality. Cheap DVD players with cheap DACs look awful, Expensive DVD players with better DACs look significantly better.

Why do you think that manufacturers make such a big deal about what DACs are in their equipment and the methodolgy and type of DAC being used? You don't find many companies making a big deal about their power cords, that's for sure.

Cheers
post #44 of 240
Oliver,

Again, you're making a judgment based on price. Just because they're affordable doesn't mean they can't do the job and do it as good as it can be done.

You're not being specific about what they lack. Exactly what is it?

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
post #45 of 240
How did this thread turn into a comparison of VP's when the OP was about the hirez mods? so back to that. Has anyone had mods done recently by these guys?

Athanasios
post #46 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

I have a pulley mount that i will eventually use for my stack(if i can do the side bye side on my 12 foot screen ) , I was thinking of measuring up evrything and having my friend who does metal fab make a few more to sell , not sure how much it would be. what would people be willing to pay? The one i have up now is the best thing to have especially if you are a tweeker and are always bringing down your projector for repairs and mods . Here is what it looks like:



Athanasios

Sorry Athanasios, I'll try to be more like you and stay on topic.
post #47 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Parys View Post

Oh yea...now that I am ready to get one of these beasts off the ground can anyone recommend where I can pick up a mount? The above post from Curt about HiRez not getting back to him about that has me spooked...

Phil Original poster also asked this question above just trying to help out. ;-)

Athanasios
post #48 of 240
My bad Athanasios! I think I understand. It's like playing Simon Says. If the original poster steers the thread off topic, it's ok for other forum members to follow his lead and post off topic. If a rogue poster post something OT without permission from the OP, then he is banned from the thread.

Damn, and I was enjoying myself.


post #49 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith View Post

You're not being specific about what they lack. Exactly what is it?

Sorry about the OT repy gentleman - but to answer Phi's question - the higher the resolution, sampling frequency etc of a DAC will translate into better sound quality or video quality (or whatever) - generally, the more bits, the better.

Some of the higher order DACs (eg 24bit.. HATS etc) can be used in applications like SACD - which does sound better than a normal CD - and I'm not some golden eared guy that buys $3000 per metre speaker (or power) cables.

DACs are alot more complex than power cables, believe it or not.

Here's some information you might find enlightening:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...alog_converter

The article actually articulates much better than I can in my little post
post #50 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

I've got nothing against HiRez, but I've been trying to get some Marquee ceiling brackets from them for about 8 months now. I don't get return emails or calls, so either they don't have mounts or they are too busy to deal with me. Deal with Mike Parker on the mods, deal with someone you know and can trust.

Curt,

We do have mounts anyone that need one can call us at 508-881-1613 they are $199. I am not sure why you can not get to us we have 3 people answering the phones. What have we done to not have your trust? I must admit I have not had time to spend on the forum.

Gary
post #51 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

Curt,

We do have mounts anyone that need one can call us at 508-881-1613 they are $199. I am not sure why you can not get to us we have 3 people answering the phones. What have we done to not have your trust? I must admit I have not had time to spend on the forum.

Gary

To be fair, Gary - Curt did say that he has nothing against your company . I've actually tried calling you myself and the phones rang off. I'm in Australia so I had to wait up. Then I tried your website and most of the links don't work - I hit "shop for parts" - dead. Most of the links are dead - and when I tried to email your webmaster to let you know, the email I sent bounced.

I experienced this even before this thread was written, about 3 months ago. Having said that, if you PM me with the a really good price for a 9500 case, I would be most obliged!

If you are the company's principal, I'd be wanting to know about these issues that people are having (in a constructive sense).

All the best
post #52 of 240
Phil,
I am sorry for the delay in the shipping of your board. We decided to clear out a lot of inventory. I had one of my people list items and it was a disaster for us admittedly the follow through was poor at best. Anyone that purchased something either received it as described or was refunded there money plus $10 for there trouble. We have hundreds of projectors in stock in our 12,000 sqf warehouse. When we get a request for a part we need to locate it, test it and get you a price. We do not just ship it and hope it works.

Gary

Gary Guidi
post #53 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

Jim, my best advice to you is to stop talking about it and start doing it. Here is the original answer to your question above, from seven years ago when Tim and Chris Stephens both answered:

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...threadid=65740



Oh yea, "JUST DO IT ALREADY!"


With that said....


HiRez makes a real nice LVPS mod but it's kind of expensive. See the review at the bottom of this page:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...achapter60.htm

They do mod boards other than the VIM & VNB's also. Like the focus board, CLM, etc, etc. Here is the list:

http://www.hometheater1.com/modpage.htm

But while I would consider their general board mods... I would highly recommend Mike Parker's VIM and VNB mods over the Hi-Rez mods, which are now several years old in design. While Mike's mods are cutting edge, constantly evolving and his current stuff is pretty darn awesome right now.

MP Mods are the way to go, regardless of price. Get yourself some MP Mods, a suitable set of lens for a larger screen (GT-17 or HD10F's) and then pay someone to properly set up your projector with a couple of true high-def sources and then DON'T LOOK BACK!!!!


Everyone has an opinion I am glad most of you are loyal to Mike. To find out who has the best mods there needs to be a shootout until that happens you are all guessing. If you want to spend your hard earned cash on a guess that's fine.

One last word

SHOOTOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are ready
post #54 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverg View Post

To be fair, Gary - Curt did say that he has nothing against your company . I've actually tried calling you myself and the phones rang off. I'm in Australia so I had to wait up. Then I tried your website and most of the links don't work - I hit "shop for parts" - dead. Most of the links are dead - and when I tried to email your webmaster to let you know, the email I sent bounced.

I experienced this even before this thread was written, about 3 months ago. Having said that, if you PM me with the a really good price for a 9500 case, I would be most obliged!

If you are the company's principal, I'd be wanting to know about these issues that people are having (in a constructive sense).

All the best

I know Curt has nothing against us. Curt is a good guy! But he said go with someone you can trust. To me that implies that we can not be trusted. If I got it wrong I apologize.

We are here from 10:00 to 6:00 EST

Gary
post #55 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirez Projection View Post

Everyone has an opinion I am glad most of you are loyal to Mike. To find out who has the best mods there needs to be a shootout until that happens you are all guessing. If you want to spend your hard earned cash on a guess that's fine.

One last word

SHOOTOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are ready

LOL...This is so funny. Especially the "guessing" part.. Ok, exactly what do you mean by that?

And sure, I'm open for a Shootout, but before I have you waste both of our time. let's do this:

You do a search on the forum and find that smpte pattern. Then get one of your 8" Marquees (non LC) and fire up that pattern at 1920x1080p @ 72hz

Check the image out well, and make sure that 8" Marquee is up to the challenge. If so, then we're see who we can get in your area to go by and confirm that you're able to properly resolve 1920x1080P @ 72hz on your 8" non LC Marquee.

Once that's confirmed, you'll get your Shootout!!!!!

below is an image of my 8" at 1920x1080P @ 72hz

Also, do note that the requirements here is that it must do it with all three colors on...

MP modified Marquee 8500 (non AC) - 1920x1080P @ 72hz
post #56 of 240
I have purchased my things from High Rez to sell to my customers and they have been fine. So I do recommend them.

Their mod sets have worked great and I have had less problems with them compared to the mod guy this article recommends. We used to get them before we started our Mod Line.

We sell Barco and Electrohome mods too.


I think if people run a CRT business they sould not say anything against another business just to make sales. Thats not what this forum should be about.

Greg
post #57 of 240
OK time to seperate the men from the boys.

We're having a modoff!!

(Makes me think of Zoolander except ....)
post #58 of 240
Thread Starter 
i didn't mean to start a war??? well I did want to know who was the king was.......
post #59 of 240
Damn it! now i have to wait for the Modoff before i decide which mods!!!! I'm leaning towards MP because of his constant involvment in this forum and his partnership with Tim. That partnership will give any buyer the customer support that we all want and expect when dishing out our hard earned money for any product.


Athanasios
post #60 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

LOL...This is so funny. Especially the "guessing" part.. Ok, exactly what do you mean by that?

And sure, I'm open for a Shootout, but before I have you waste both of our time. let's do this:

You do a search on the forum and find that smpte pattern. Then get one of your 8" Marquees (non LC) and fire up that pattern at 1920x1080p @ 72hz

Check the image out well, and make sure that 8" Marquee is up to the challenge. If so, then we're see who we can get in your area to go by and confirm that you're able to properly resolve 1920x1080P @ 72hz on your 8" non LC Marquee.

Once that's confirmed, you'll get your Shootout!!!!!

below is an image of my 8" at 1920x1080P @ 72hz

Also, do note that the requirements here is that it must do it with all three colors on...

MP modified Marquee 8500 (non AC) - 1920x1080P @ 72hz

Mike,

This is why we need a shootout. To do this conditions need to be the same.
ie: Screen, scaler, cables, tube life. I am not going to go around and around with you again we wasted to much bandwidth last time. If I were not sure if my mods were better I would not shoot out either you are making a safe decision. I must say when you are the perceived king of mods it is a good decision. If the forum members want a shoot out they will let us know.

Gary
Lets do it right.
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