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The "Official" Denon AVR-2808CI Owners Thread - Page 54

post #1591 of 3815
How do i override the Audyssey crossover settings? If I have the Audyssey EQ on do I automatically get the crossover points assigned from the system (ex. 250 hz for Center) or is there a way to change them?

i know I can adjust them in the manual setup, but aren't those setting only for the Manual EQ?
Nevermind, just read that the crossover setting in manual setup overrides the audyssey one.

Hmm..Sounding like it may just be a lack of power causing my Center to sound bad? The thing just sounded soo good with the 3805.
post #1592 of 3815
I just picked up a Denon DCM-390 CD changer on e-bay and noticed it has an optical output. Can I use this digital connection to connect to my 2808? I see where I should plug in a coaxial cable to the 2808 (DCM-390 has a coxial output as well), but I don't see an optical connection for the CD player on the 2808. Can I plug it in elsewhere? Thanks!
post #1593 of 3815
I searched through the thread and didn't seem to get a hit touching on my specific question, forgive me if it's been asked before.

I'd like to use a 2808 or 988 with a universal dvd-a/sacd player which can send dsd via hdmi (pioneer dv-48).

Can anyone confirm the 2808/988 will decode both two channel and multichannel from an sacd player sending dsd via hdmi?

If so does the 2808/988 display indicate dsd/2 channel/5.1 channel etc?
post #1594 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabl View Post

I searched through the thread and didn't seem to get a hit touching on my specific question, forgive me if it's been asked before.

I'd like to use a 2808 or 988 with a universal dvd-a/sacd player which can send dsd via hdmi (pioneer dv-48).

Can anyone confirm the 2808/988 will decode both two channel and multichannel from an sacd player sending dsd via hdmi?

If so does the 2808/988 display indicate dsd/2 channel/5.1 channel etc?

Both will decode DSD from the HDMI input and they sound great. Make sure your DV48 resolution is set to 720p or higher in order to pass the DSD multi channel stream. If it is set below, at 480i or p you only get the two channel audio.

I can't remember what the main display shows, but in the upper left display, you'll see DSD to PCM or something like that. The number of channels being received by your Denon will be displayed by the left channel input display as well.....If you change the DV48 from 480i to 720p with a multi channel DSD disc, you will see the channel display on the left change from 2 to 5 channels being received.

Good luck.....
post #1595 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlaterra View Post

I just picked up a Denon DCM-390 CD changer on e-bay and noticed it has an optical output. Can I use this digital connection to connect to my 2808? I see where I should plug in a coaxial cable to the 2808 (DCM-390 has a coxial output as well), but I don't see an optical connection for the CD player on the 2808. Can I plug it in elsewhere? Thanks!

The optical inputs on the Denon are right next to the Coaxial inputs. Little square black holes with a hinged door, the only outputs are optical as well, so look for the digital out and you'll know what the in looks like.

Many would say to use the coaxial anyway, it is more durable and cheaper cable. In any event you can hook your CD player up either way, don't pay any attention to how the inputs are labeled on the back of the box, they can all be renamed anyway.
post #1596 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS2JSTS View Post

Both will decode DSD from the HDMI input and they sound great. Make sure your DV48 resolution is set to 720p or higher in order to pass the DSD multi channel stream. If it is set below, at 480i or p you only get the two channel audio.

I can't remember what the main display shows, but in the upper left display, you'll see DSD to PCM or something like that. The number of channels being received by your Denon will be displayed by the left channel input display as well.....If you change the DV48 from 480i to 720p with a multi channel DSD disc, you will see the channel display on the left change from 2 to 5 channels being received.

Good luck.....

awesome, thanks very much for the reply and the details, greatly appreciated!
post #1597 of 3815
hi everyone. i need your feedback on the receiver that im interested. i dont know which one to get, a denon 2808ci or a denon 1909....help you guys!!! thanks
post #1598 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by spongepants25 View Post

hi everyone. i need your feedback on the receiver that im interested. i dont know which one to get, a denon 2808ci or a denon 1909....help you guys!!! thanks

Denon 988 or wait for 1909???
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1049185

988 is very similar to the 2808CI. That thread should have all the answers you need.
post #1599 of 3815
Wondering if someone else has had this problem. I recently purchased the 2808ci and when I go to use my denon 1910 dvd player, the screen freezes and the dvd player becomes unoperable. I have the dvd player hooked up to the receiver using a DVI to HDMI adapter and have audio in through optical cable. When I unplug the DVI connection or turn it off on the player, the audio works just fine, but when I turn on the DVI output or plug in the HDMI cord in to the back of the receiver, the whole thing freezes and I have to pull the plug on the dvd player, unplug the dvi cable, and plug the dvd player back in to operate it. Any thoughts? I have tried switching modes from 1080i to 720p to 480p all without results. Would appreciate any help. Thanks!
post #1600 of 3815
my 2808ci just arrived and honestly i cant turn this off its just to amazing oh btw why is this thing so confusing to use? lol i havent figured ne thing out yet and i am to excited to read the manual lolll
post #1601 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

So you are happy with the 988/2808? What type of speakers are you pushing (sensitivity?)

Hmm, unfortunately I have to report that I am not happy with mine. Something fishy is going on with the center channel. with my old 3805 the Center channel (aperion 5C) sounded soo natural and blended in so well it became transparent. The vocals projecting from the TV to my ears.

With the 988 something definately seems odd. It does appear to get louder overall bu the diaglouge coming from my center channel does not seem natural at all. It doesn't blend in very well. It sounds hollow and boxy. What's even more fishy is what audyssey is telling me. I've ran the audyssey twice and it sets the crossover on my rears and fronts around 90, which is right about where they should be. However it has set the crossover frequency on my center channel to 250hz. I know auto setups are weird sometimes but it just seems fishy that it is doing this with my center channel and my center channel sounds off.

For some reason the center just doesn't have that full/lush/natural sound that I was getting with my 3805. It is soo distracting that I can't even enjoy watching a blu ray with uncompressed audio. The center just sticks out. I hear many good things about the 2308 so I'm confused why this 988 (a step up) is making my center channel sound unnatural/nontransparent and weak? I'm wondering if there is a setting I'm missing ? Any advice?

Were talking about a very, very noticeable difference between the 3805 and this 988 in regards to the way the center channel sounds.

Still reportig that the 988 is not working out for me. Sorry to say that I personally feel that it does not provide the clarity and soundstage of the old 3805. The center channel sounds like it's bottle up and voices sound like are weak and coming from the center channel instead of coming right up to my ears and enveloping me. I've tried everything with this AVR...

My guess is that this AVR would be better with higher sensitvity speakers. I'm running 6 ohms all the way around and have an average sensitivity of aobut 86db. The speakers seem lifeless with this AVR and that's the only way I can explain it. Now I have a pair of JBL studio series from best buy I bought 10 years ago that are rated at about 93 db and I bet they would sound great with this AVR

There are people that say a watts a watt and some that say it's the quality of the watt that counts. If you look at the AVR 3805 and 988 you would say, huh only 10 watts per channel difference, right? Then why would my 3805 sound much, much better than my 988 with these speakers. I personally think is has something to do with what's under the hood. If anyone has had the chance to own a 3805 and look under the hood you will find a very heavy, massive power supply with large capcitors. This is the reason it weighs 9 lbs more than the 988 and the reason my speakers have more life and more immersive surround field.

If you feel I am wrong here and that the 988 should be able to keep up with the 3805 I'm open for suggestions on setting it up. Otherwise I'm getting back into the 3000 series\\

Thanks for everyones time and help.
post #1602 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by ew1976 View Post

Wondering if someone else has had this problem. I recently purchased the 2808ci and when I go to use my denon 1910 dvd player, the screen freezes and the dvd player becomes unoperable. I have the dvd player hooked up to the receiver using a DVI to HDMI adapter and have audio in through optical cable. When I unplug the DVI connection or turn it off on the player, the audio works just fine, but when I turn on the DVI output or plug in the HDMI cord in to the back of the receiver, the whole thing freezes and I have to pull the plug on the dvd player, unplug the dvi cable, and plug the dvd player back in to operate it. Any thoughts? I have tried switching modes from 1080i to 720p to 480p all without results. Would appreciate any help. Thanks!

Is the DVI adapter DVI-D or DVI-I? The 2808 will only work with DVI-D.
post #1603 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

Still reportig that the 988 is not working out for me. Sorry to say that I personally feel that it does not provide the clarity and soundstage of the old 3805. The center channel sounds like it's bottle up and voices sound like are weak and coming from the center channel instead of coming right up to my ears and enveloping me. I've tried everything with this AVR...

My guess is that this AVR would be better with higher sensitvity speakers. I'm running 6 ohms all the way around and have an average sensitivity of aobut 86db. The speakers seem lifeless with this AVR and that's the only way I can explain it. Now I have a pair of JBL studio series from best buy I bought 10 years ago that are rated at about 93 db and I bet they would sound great with this AVR

There are people that say a watts a watt and some that say it's the quality of the watt that counts. If you look at the AVR 3805 and 988 you would say, huh only 10 watts per channel difference, right? Then why would my 3805 sound much, much better than my 988 with these speakers. I personally think is has something to do with what's under the hood. If anyone has had the chance to own a 3805 and look under the hood you will find a very heavy, massive power supply with large capcitors. This is the reason it weighs 9 lbs more than the 988 and the reason my speakers have more life and more immersive surround field.

If you feel I am wrong here and that the 988 should be able to keep up with the 3805 I'm open for suggestions on setting it up. Otherwise I'm getting back into the 3000 series\\

Thanks for everyones time and help.

I don't know what it is but there shouldn't be that big a' gap, if any, in performance between the two models. Did you try setting the center to 90hz?
post #1604 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

I don't know what it is but there shouldn't be that big a' gap, if any, in performance between the two models. Did you try setting the center to 90hz?

Crossover is set to 80 across the board.

I've done Audyssey like six times. I'm really starting to believe that my speakers really show the difference between the two power supplies?

Having been able to see both the AVR 988 powersupply and Capacitors just aren't the same size and weight of the 3805...

My fronts are 84 db 6ohms and center is 86 db 6 ohms.

I guess the first question I need answered is whether the powersupply from the 3805 is bigger and badder than the 988? Second. I noticed the 988 has 6 independent powersupplies and the 3805 has 4, does this mean anything in the real world for this arguement?
Does bigger power supplies and capacitors = Cleaner sound, More open soundstage, deeper room extension and more sound dynamics in regards to AVR's? I do know component amplifiers typically have massive power supplies, but then again were not comparing apples to apples there. Also, why does the 3000 series (3805,3806,3808)weigh about 9lbs more on average than the 900/2800 series?

For some reason I've convinced myself that bigger powersupplies = cleaner,fuller sound.
post #1605 of 3815
I have a 2808CI and performed the Auto (Audyssey MuliEQ XT) setup. The Crossover Freq results do not seem correct. I have seven Speakercraft AIM8-3 series speakers. The Auto test results are as follows:
Front: 250Hz
Center: 200Hz
Surround: 150Hz
Surround Back: 200Hz
LFE (SUB): 90Hz
The only result that makes sense is the LFE channel (90Hz). I am not really familure with these figures so I'm asking if I may need to correct the crossover Freq. The specs on my speakers (All 7 are the same) are:FREQUENCY RESPONSE = 37hZ -20KhZ +/- 2 db

Also all Speakers are set to "SMALL"
post #1606 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Is the DVI adapter DVI-D or DVI-I? The 2808 will only work with DVI-D.

It is a DVI-D cord. Just checked it myself a second ago. Any other thoughts? Thanks.
post #1607 of 3815
Well, what a thread. Some real experts here (thankfully)...

Here's my equipment list that I plan to setup this weekend:

Pioneer 42" Plasma - TH42-PZ700U
Denon 2808CI (just purchased from vanns for $580)
Mirage Omnisat v2 front and back
Mirage Omnisat v2 cc center
HSU VTF3 Mk 2
Denon i-Dock iPod player
Upconverting DVD player
Comcast Motorola HD Cablebox with DVR
Harmony 880 Remote Control

Both the DVD and cablebox have HDMI cables or traditional component and digital audio connections.

Question:
1.) Should I simply run everything through HDMI and skip the upscaling feature for standard-def channels, or run it from the cablebox via component and digital audio and upscale everything (plus get OSD overlay menu and volume info, if I understand correctly)?

2.) What am I gaining or losing if I go through HDMI only (other than the single cable)? What am I gaining or losing if I go through component and digital audio connections?

3.) Will it be possible to simply turn on the TV and use the volume control of the TV and change channels on the cablebox, or will the receiver always need to be turned on using the full 5.1 system?

I'm psyched to set this up and start to enjoy the setup. Any comments or opinions on the best setup and answers to my questions would be appreciated...
post #1608 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Warner View Post

I have a 2808CI and performed the Auto (Audyssey MuliEQ XT) setup. The Crossover Freq results do not seem correct. I have seven Speakercraft AIM8-3 series speakers. The Auto test results are as follows:
Front: 250Hz
Center: 200Hz
Surround: 150Hz
Surround Back: 200Hz
LFE (SUB): 90Hz
The only result that makes sense is the LFE channel (90Hz). I am not really familure with these figures so I'm asking if I may need to correct the crossover Freq. The specs on my speakers (All 7 are the same) are:FREQUENCY RESPONSE = 37hZ -20KhZ +/- 2 db

Also all Speakers are set to "SMALL"

Greetings,
That's a known issue with Audyssey.
Just go into Manual setup and set everything to the same thing. In your case I think you should try 60 or 80 and see how that sounds.
post #1609 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by ew1976 View Post

It is a DVI-D cord. Just checked it myself a second ago. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

The manual says using a DVI-HDMI adapter is hit or miss. Have you tried the 2nd HDMI jack? You also have to use HDMI to the TV as well.
post #1610 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmolin0985 View Post


1.) Should I simply run everything through HDMI and skip the upscaling feature for standard-def channels, or run it from the cablebox via component and digital audio and upscale everything (plus get OSD overlay menu and volume info, if I understand correctly)?

Your Panasonic (not a Pioneer) HDTV is already 1080p and your HD DVR is capable of upscaling to 1080i, so I doubt you'll see any improvement on SD channels using the 2808. Personally I don't use the video upscaling feature of the 2808 as I don't find any improvement in PQ over just using the 1080p HDTV or HD DVR. You should try it both ways though to see if you can tell a difference. You won't get OSD overlay or volume info with the 2808 regardless of what you use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmolin0985 View Post

2.) What am I gaining or losing if I go through HDMI only (other than the single cable)? What am I gaining or losing if I go through component and digital audio connections?

Currently you won't lose anything as you don't have anything that can play the new advanced HD codecs so using an optical cable is fine as it will play DD 5.1. Once you upgrade to a Blu-Ray BD player (other than a PS3) however, you'll need an HDMI cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmolin0985 View Post

3.) Will it be possible to simply turn on the TV and use the volume control of the TV and change channels on the cablebox, or will the receiver always need to be turned on using the full 5.1 system?

Yes it is possible. I have the same set (50") and the Panny's surround sound effects are quite good. I run HDMI from the HD DVR to the HDTV and an optical cable from the HD DVR to the 2808. The majority of my TV listening is from the Panny's speakers. However, when I want to listen to a DD 5.1 TV movie, I just turn on the 2808 and mute the TV volume to get the full 5.1 surround benefit. I mostly only use the 2808 when using Phono, Tuner, or Blu-Ray.
post #1611 of 3815
Quick question for the 2808/988 owners...

How far do you sit from your monitor/speakers? how big is your room?

I sit 16 feet away from everything in a 20x12 room thats open to the kitchen. Couple that with my lowered sensitivity speakers and I'm thinking that may make it harder for this 988.

I just don't get the front soundstage sounding the way it does. Is it required to use frequency test tones and an SPL meter to setup properly?

Anyway, i do have to turn my avr up to -15 to -10 to get a comfortable listening volume. If I raise it higher it gets louder but it starts to sound a little muddy.
post #1612 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

Quick question for the 2808/988 owners...

How far do you sit from your monitor/speakers? how big is your room?

I sit 16 feet away from everything in a 20x12 room thats open to the kitchen. Couple that with my lowered sensitivity speakers and I'm thinking that may make it harder for this 988.

I just don't get the front soundstage sounding the way it does. Is it required to use frequency test tones and an SPL meter to setup properly?

Anyway, i do have to turn my avr up to -15 to -10 to get a comfortable listening volume. If I raise it higher it gets louder but it starts to sound a little muddy.

I dont know about the comparison to the 3805 directly, but the 3800 series always has larger power supplies over the 2800 series. Your speakers at 84 and 86 db are not that efficient and coupled with the large room you are in, you may in fact be driving the amp to hard. It's not that it wont take it but, you are running it closer to the upper edge of it's performance and much more likely to run into distortion at the extremes of amp performance.

Truthfully, with your room and your speakers I would recommend a seperate amp, the pre-outs on the 2808 will work for the time being. Moving up to a 3808 or even a 4308 would likely give you slightly more headroom, but you still wouldn't have adequate power to drive the reactive loads you are presenting them. A good quality seperate amp coupled with the 2808 would give you much greater improvement than a higher end receiver imo.

edit....With regard to the Audesy issues you are having. You can and I always do a manual set up. If you do run audesy, make sure the room is absolutely quiet throughout, I suspect your speakers and the mic are so far apart they arent registering properly. In any case, just adjust the crossovers to what they should be at for your speakers and go from there. Just override the Audesy settings as required.
post #1613 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

Quick question for the 2808/988 owners...

How far do you sit from your monitor/speakers? how big is your room?

I sit 16 feet away from everything in a 20x12 room thats open to the kitchen. Couple that with my lowered sensitivity speakers and I'm thinking that may make it harder for this 988.

I just don't get the front soundstage sounding the way it does. Is it required to use frequency test tones and an SPL meter to setup properly?

Anyway, i do have to turn my avr up to -15 to -10 to get a comfortable listening volume. If I raise it higher it gets louder but it starts to sound a little muddy.

Seriously ... I'd get a hold of another 988 to see if you have the same issues. I think that's the only way you are going to be satisfied as to whether or not it's the 988 or not. Clearly your low sensitivity and low ohm speakers require a higher wattage amp to enjoy them, although the 988 shouldn't have the problems you are describing. Using test equipment certainly helps, but also is not required to achieve great sound quality from your speakers. Asking others for their room dimensions and seating distance isn't a fair assessment unless their speakers are rated the same as yours. I have 92db speakers and can listen at -35db to -30db to get very comfortable listening volume seated 11' feet from my front mains and sub. When I'm watching an action Blu-Ray I crank it up to -15 and I'm rocking the house .... literally!!!

Also, keep in mind that the majority of 988 owners are using < 10 watts of the total 110 watts the AVR outputs per channel. So do you really think that the 140 watts @ 6 ohm in the 988 is going to be that much less than the 160 watts @ 6 ohm in the 3805?. I would also agree with LS2JSTS in that using the 988 as a pre-amp would suit you much better given your large room and seating distance or until you are able to upgrade your speakers.
post #1614 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

Greetings,
That's a known issue with Audyssey.
Just go into Manual setup and set everything to the same thing. In your case I think you should try 60 or 80 and see how that sounds.

Thank You for your help and knowledge. I set everything (Including the SUB) to 80Hz. It sounds good with music. Have not had a chance to try a Bul-Ray or DVD yet. Again thanks for your time and help.
post #1615 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Warner View Post

I have a 2808CI and performed the Auto (Audyssey MuliEQ XT) setup. The Crossover Freq results do not seem correct. I have seven Speakercraft AIM8-3 series speakers. The Auto test results are as follows:
Front: 250Hz
Center: 200Hz
Surround: 150Hz
Surround Back: 200Hz
LFE (SUB): 90Hz
The only result that makes sense is the LFE channel (90Hz). I am not really familure with these figures so I'm asking if I may need to correct the crossover Freq. The specs on my speakers (All 7 are the same) are:FREQUENCY RESPONSE = 37hZ -20KhZ +/- 2 db

Also all Speakers are set to "SMALL"

Did you use all 8 positions when you ran Auto Setup? Although the settings seem high, you don't mention how your speakers sound setup with the Audyssey recommended numbers. I would run Audyssey again at 8 positions and listen at the values that are recommended. Others have found it actually sounded better set at those higher values with their respective speakers and room dimensions.
post #1616 of 3815
Just curious. My buddy has the 3809 and there is a new software update that allows him to add Sirius to the receiver like the XM that is already came with unit. Is there any software updates for the 2808? Also the Sirius add this available for the 2808? I did call tech and they said if brought in to service can update, but not sure if there are any updates for 2808. I just purchased one and love it compared to my old Harmon Kardon 235. Thanks.
post #1617 of 3815
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Did you use all 8 positions when you ran Auto Setup? Although the settings seem high, you don't mention how your speakers sound setup with the Audyssey recommended numbers. I would run Audyssey again at 8 positions and listen at the values that are recommended. Others have found it actually sounded better set at those higher values with their respective speakers and room dimensions.

Yes, I ran the setup using 8 positions. As a matter of fact I ran the test twice changing the mic position at each position slightly. The figures were the same. No change at all. When I first tried this setup about a month ago when I first setup the receiver the figures were the same as yesterday's test. The sound appeared to be good with the Audyssey figures. I will run the setup again and try to compare the crossover numbers I'm using (80Hz) now to the calculated numbers.
Thank You for your input and help.
post #1618 of 3815
2808 is cheaper than 988 ..... is it worth buying Refurbished ??? unit
post #1619 of 3815
Thanks for you replies.

After spending more time with the unit last night I think I came up with a better description of my problem.

The AVR makes the speakers get plenty loud, but there is just a problem with getting the Center Channel blending in. It seems like there is too much empahsis on signals 250hz and below with may be cuasing it to sound unnatural. When I listen to material the Center channel sticks out like a sore thumb. When I raise the volume higher it sticks out even more. This may indicate that midrange EQ levels need to be toned down?

I am wondering if I need to mess around with the EQ for the center channel, but am not sure how to measure it accurately. I did notice that setting the crossover to 200hz helped the Center blend in with the soundstage but it also made the subwoofer less transparent.

The reason I am so confused is that with the 3805 all I had to do was hook everything up, set the crossovers and it blended in superbly.

Smoothie.
Why would you recommend trying another 988? I don't see how there could be any difference? Do you think there could be a problem with the Center channel amp in the AVR? I'm thinking that since it gets plenty loud that there shouldn't be a problem. It just doesn't blend in.

All speakers are from same manufacturer, same tweeters and driver materials. So sonically matched they are. I know it's not a problem with the center channel speaker because it sounded flawless with the 3805...

It is puzzling to me that every review I read on this product is excellent. Superb sonics, plenty of power, etc..

BTW...I had this same exact issue with a Yamaha RX-V661 I used to have. Center Channel never blended in well.

I hope I'm not being a pain, but I really want this to work and since my AVR-3805 sounded beautiful I feel I can get by without an amp for now. Hopefully by learning how to integrate the center channel I can figure this out.
post #1620 of 3815
i need to buy eather 988 or 2808 in few days post above makes me wanna buy 988 even that is more expensive than 2808
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