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Possible Replacement for PV-HD1000 Available in Japan!?  

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I just came back from a trip to Japan and had a couple of days to research what D-VHS recording options that are available there. I saw eleven different recorders from Hitachi (3 models), Toshiba (1 model), JVC (4 models), Mitsubishi (1 model) and Panasonic (2 models). The Panasonics were especially interesting in that they appeared to functionally replace the PV-HD1000.

The model numbers are NV-DH1 and NV-DHE10. As best as I could tell, the only difference between them is that the 10 has an MPEG-2 encoder built in to allow digital recordings from the S-Video or component video input. Both units are very much like the 1000 in that they only have S-Video and R/L Audio outputs (no digital audio out). The iLink connetction is to be used for both digital input and output. In Japan, that is the Panasonic BS tuner. One store clerk told me that the DHE10 is pretty much functionally equivalent to the JVC 20000. I do not take that statement to mean iLink protocol compatability!

I called Panasonic to inquire about DST-50/51 compatability. With the kind help of the hotel desck clerk, I was able to get through the recorded menu system and talk with an english speaking technical representative. I asked if the NV-DHE10 was 100% compatable with the DST50/51's sold in the United States. She asked some one else and then reponded: "All Panasonic equipment is compatable". Just to make sure I asked her to explicity ask about 100% compatability with the DST50 and 51 sold in the US. She again went off to consult with another tech rep. and answered with, what I took to be an emphatic YES.

I, of course, am not able to verify what she said but I would say that there is a good chance that these would work with the 50/51's.

As an aside the JVC 30000 is now discontinued and is replaced by the 35000. The only difference I could see is the inclusion of an AAC3 decoder which does not help us here in the US. The lowest price I found on the 30000 was about $950.
post #2 of 13
Thread Starter 
Sorry, I forgot to mention the discounted price for the 10 is just slightly over $1000.
post #3 of 13
Orio

I purchased an NV-DH1 Panasonic DVHS VCR a week ago to go with my Panasonic BS (HDTV) tuner. I hoped it would work with my DST51 and/or my PV-HD1000. I have tried the DST51 with the NV-DH1 through an Orange Micro hub (thanks again to Gridleak/Roger) and direct and the DST51 does not communicate with it under any circumstances I can find. I had the BS tuner about a month before I got the NV-DH1 and had hoped that the PV-HD1000 was just a bit bucket and thus would capture the bit stream from the BS tuner so that I could playback through the BS tuner either direct from the PV-HD1000 or from the NV-DH1 when I finally bought one. My hopes were dashed; in my case the PV-HD1000 did not record a signal that I could playback in anyway. Hopefully I will still be able to dub uncopy protected tapes from one machine to the other as that is the only potential compatibility between the Japanese and US Panny equipment that is left. I do not believe the answer you got from Panasonic Japan is correct; I think they did not know and simply gave you an answer in the affirmative rather than admit that they did not know.

Milton
post #4 of 13
thank you Milton as I was about to call a friend in Osaka and asking here to get the machine for me. You've tried 1, what about 10. Is there a possibility that 10 will work with TU-DST51 ?

thanx again !
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hi Milton,

I am certainly sorry to hear of your experience. Let's see if we can understand to what degree they are compatible. Can you connect the NV-DH1 with the DST-50 using the i.Link, leaving the DST-50 turned off, and then turn on the NV-DH1. When you bring up the menu on the DST-50 and go to the D-VHS control menu, do you see something like "D-VHS NOT PRESENT"? Then do you see a change when you turn the NV-DH1 on and off? Does inserting and removing a D-VHS tape produce a change? Do you see a change when fast forwarding or rewinding the tape controlling these functions from the NV-DH1 remote? The answers to these questions should tell us something about their compatability. With the JVC 30000, the DST-50 compatability is only partial and it is often necessary to inititate communication with the DST-50 by performing some actions on the 30000 before the DST-50 "knows about the 30000".
post #6 of 13
atmosfera

Sorry, I do not have access to an NV-DHE10 (my wife hit the roof when I came home with the NV-DH1 even though it was $250-$300 less than the 10 and I told her "look at the bargain I got honey compared to that expensive DH10 or that super expensive DH30000"-oh, well it is easier to get forgiveness than permission. I have GOT to get a job over here soon) but Orio's earlier comments about the two VCRs being very similar matches my own shopping experience. I decided that the small extra ability of the DHE10 was not worth $250 to $300; I doubt very seriously if the DHE10's i.link is any more compatible than the DH1.

Orio

I don't have a DST50 but I tried every combination I could think of with the DST51 and the NV-DH1 including unplugging both units then plugging them back in and powering on the DST51 first. Those most I ever got were messages about the transport status of the DH1 i.e. "DVHS tape stop", "DVHS tape rewinding", "DVHS play"; even when the message said DVHS play the screen was black. I read in a post many months ago that someone had gotten one of the nonlinear editng programs to issue commands like play and stop to the PV-HD1000 but was never able to "see" any data and my experiences seem to be the same i.e. the tape commands are standard but there is something proprietary about the data stream and there are different proprietary data streams in the US and Japan. I tried one of my US, DVHS tape, recordings that was made using this same DST51 with the PV-HD1000 plus I tried one of my Japanese, DVHS tape, recordings. The Japanese tape was made from wowow (the Japanese equivalent to HBO) so it could have some sort of copy protection flagged but it plays fine if I use the DH1 with the BS tuner so I don't really believe that is an issue; just in case I plan to try recording a few other shows that I don't think are copy protected and try once more.
I will try the DST51 menu when I try again but since the set top box is passing tape transport commands I think it very unlikely that it will show "DVHS not present" when I go into the menu.

By the way I got mail from one of the long time forum members who saw this thread saying that some of the Korean members had already tested the DH1 and DHE10 and found them to be incompatible with the US Panasonic set top boxes so we are rediscovering what others already knew. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
post #7 of 13
Hi Milton,

Am I correct in assuming the following:

1) The NV-DH1 works properly with the BS tuner, recording and playing back BS HDTV programs.

2) The HD1000 does not record anything from the BS tuner but control functions work properly.

3) Tapes made on the DST51/HD1000 play properly on the NV-DH1/BS tuner combo.

4) NV-DH1 and HD1000 can make copies of each other's tapes.

When you're attempting to record on the HD1000 from the BS tuner what does the front panel of the HD1000 display?... ie., does it show record time or "CP"?
post #8 of 13
Hey Roger, long time no talk, eh

You are correct on points 1 and 2 but on point 3, incorrect. I have not been able to get any tapes made in the US with the DST51/PV-HD1000 combination to playback through the NV-DH1/BS tuner combination and I checked tapes that I have played successfully many times before through the DST51/PV-HD1000.

As for point 4 and the last question, I should let you know that the PV-HD1000 in question is the barely working/dropped on concrete demo machine that I talked about in other threads. The front panel LCD is broken and I suspect the firewire connection has gone south on me as I suddenly can't get the DST51 to "see" it no matter how I fool with the connection. I am a bit of a klutz as far as do-it-yourself repairs so I plan on having my wife call Panasonic and asking what they will charge to repair the firewire port and install the consumer heads that I purchased before leaving the states; if the charge is anything "reasonable" then I am going to see how close to a normally working deck I can get it. Once I get it back then I hope to be able to say for certain whether or not dubbing from one deck to the other works.

When the DST51/PV-HD1000 combination was still working well enough to playback my US tapes and I tried taping from the BS tuner to the PV-HD1000, it never showed CP onscreen but rather it showed elapsed tape time onscreen which gave me enough hope that it was actually capturing the bit stream to encourage me to tape every HDTV movie I could before I got the NV-DH1. Not a single one showed a picture, not even for a moment.

Because the DST51/PV-HD1000 combination stopped working after I started experimenting with the NV-DH1, I am a bit concerned that somehow one of those 5C tokens or whatever was transmitted and screwed up the i.link communication in the US combo somehow, but with all the unplugging and plugging into the Orangelink hub etc. I think it is probably the flaky firewire connector (it seems to have been giving several other members problems).

Milton
post #9 of 13
I'm excited that the manufacturers are moving forward with more HDTV recording solutions. I think the compatibility issues with the PVHD1000, the DST-50/1 and the newest recorders are important, but for those of us who have spent several times the equipment costs in developing a good HDTV library, I'm just as interested in the ability of the new equipment to play the existing tape library recorded on the DST/PVHD equipment. It is when this hardware goes down, that the problem will surface in how to play the older tapes.

Also, I would like to add a couple of technical comments regarding testing-
1. Please try to avoid complicating your tests with superfluous hardware like i-link hubs. Conduct the tests using the simplest hardware configuration possible. And, if your hardware has been modified, and I'm including damaged or playback only demo gear modified to work for record, please mention this when stating your tests results.
2. The time counter on the PVHD1000 is a simple control track counter reading in HMS so I doubt this has anything to do with i-Link compatibility as it is an analog type monitor of tape control track, not the mpeg bit stream. Unless you are referring to the time as read on the screen from the DST-50 output during DST-50 search mode, it would not indicate anything about tape compatibility of the older Panasonic system with the new except for the fact that the control tracks are compatible. For that matter a simple VHS tape has the same control track pulses format as the DVHS tapes.

Keep up the great work with all the reports. It's nice to learn that the companies are doing what their reps said they would do when I spoke to them at NAB.

BTW- if any of you need a contact at Panasonic for their HD DVHS recorder section, I located the lost business card with e-mail address of the Japanese gentleman in charge. e-mail me for that info if you are interested.

edit addendum:
Well, I NEED to clarify the above offer. When I said if anyone "needs" the contact, I meant because they are doing some responsible research on the subject at hand and not just to bother this man with a bunch of consumer questions easily answered here on the forum. If I didn't think this would happen I would not have with held the info from the public forum. Those of you who have requested and received answer from me know which category I think you are in. I don't mean to judge but I feel a bit responsible in not giving out that man's contact info unless those who NEED it will use it responsibly. This means no lurkers please and only those who have, in the past offered excellent information in their work with this equipment. I apologize to any who have not heard from me but you didn't demonstrate a need to "bother" this man. I treasure our professional contacts made through this forum and elsewhere. They are our valuable resource.
post #10 of 13
Don

Thanks for the offer of the email address of the Japanese gentleman at Panasonic; I know you said to email you and ask for the address but at the moment my outgoing email is not working (my ISP made some changes recently and I have yet to sort out why I cannot send out mail) so I hope you see this reply and send it - my email address is me_henry@sprynet.com .

Milton
post #11 of 13
Sent e-mail and PM
post #12 of 13
Got it Don.

Thank you very much
post #13 of 13
Hi! All

I have BS panasonic NV-DH1 D-VHS /Toshiba BS Tuner and Pana ATSC T50/ HD1000 set.

For Griedleak question

1) The NV-DH1 works properly with the BS tuner, recording and playing back BS HDTV programs.

Yes


2) The HD1000 does not record anything from the BS tuner but control functions work properly.

Yes


3) Tapes made on the DST51/HD1000 play properly on the NV-DH1/BS tuner combo.

No

4) NV-DH1 and HD1000 can make copies of each other's tapes.

Yes. But I- link connection should be connected only these two not with BS tuner.

If Bs tuner is connected to NV-DH1, BS tuner's plug should be unplugged.

Source tape should be played in matching D-VHS ( ATSC tape for HD1000 and BS tape for NV-DH1) .

In Seoul , Korea , ATSC HDTV broadcasting has just begun.
Now 3 HDTV stations air regular base and 2 more stations will air ATSC HDTV until the end of year.

Each station air 10 hours mandatory HDTV program per week , the othe time upconverted signal.

I am really happy to find out that some HDTV programs are reference class picture quality .

I have collected more than 250 HDTV movies and programs so far.
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