Official Samsung HT-AS720 thread w. updated first post. - Page 7

For those of you that own the as720...do the speakers have a decibel rating on them?

Red, you know I want to hear all about how it works with Anynet+ and your TV Can you have the receiver change inputs automatically when you change inputs on your TV? Is there any on-screen volume display when you adjust the receiver volume? Thanks!

By the way, I just picked up the 605 so I can do a direct comparison. I'll post my impressions when I get the 605 hooked up.

Nice! Have you tried adjusting the receiver volume through the TV via Anynet yet? Does it have an on-screen volume display?

I have both the Samsung HT-AS720 receiver and Samsung 2007 LN-Txxxx TV and have found the Anynet capability to be a littly kludgy when using TV remote. Examples 1) Sometimes looses pairing and I have to go to TV Anynet setup to regain pairing, 2) TV doesnt turn the Receiver on transparently - I have to hit the Anynet key on my TV remote each and every time I turn on the TV to turn on the Receiver. Does turn it off ok though. 3) TV does indicate that it is controlling the Receiver volume, but it doesnt give any feedback of receiver volume level. And I find the message to be annoying as it covers 1/4 of the screen WITHOUT showing the Receiver volume level. Maybe all of this is because I use the TV-Receiver HDMI connection only for HDMI-CEC (Anynet) and not to send a video stream as my TV is directly connected to RF coax without a STB. Sometimes I have to switch TV to HDMI mode just to get the Receiver to pair with it.

Well, I set up the Onkyo 605 so I could do a direct comparison with the Samsung. In terms of sound quality, I really can't tell the difference using the same 8 ohm speakers. Both receivers sound great and get plenty loud. But that's about where the similarities end.

I must say, that I really wanted this Samsung receiver to be great. But the Onkyo just blows it away in terms of connectivity options and versatility. For starters, the Onkyo has 3 component inputs and the Samsung doesn't have any. This is perfect for my Xbox 360, so I can change the input on my receiver and get video and audio. With the Samsung, I had to change the input on the receiver to get the audio and change the input on the TV to get the video. The Onkyo has a ridiculous number of analog and digital inputs and most of them are completely assignable to any of 5 discrete sources. So you can mix and match video inputs with whatever analog or digital audio input you want, then put in a custom name for that device so it will say Xbox 360, TiVo S3, or whatever you want on the LED screen. And all this can be completely configured with the on-screen menu system through the TV so you don't have to scroll through a bunch of menus on the receiver's little LED screen. The Onkyo also does upconversion of all your analog inputs so they can be output through a single HDMI cable to the TV. I tried to get this to work with the Samsung, but it didn't seem to have that capability. And just to top it all off, the Onkyo has an automatic speaker setup utility. It comes with a microphone that you put in different positions around the room and it configures all of the speaker distances and levels automatically.

Another problem I have with the Samsung is that it doesn't really give enough information about what type of decoding it's doing. For example, most of my digital cable channels are encoded with Dolby Digital 2.0 and the HD channels are Dolby Digital 5.1. The Samsung says that it's Dolby Digital on ALL channels and shows all of the speakers as active, but I can't find a way to tell if it's actually 5.1 or just a stereo signal being sent to all of the speakers. The Onkyo actually says Dolby 5.1 or Dolby 2.0 so I can tell.

The biggest reason I wanted the Samsung to work out was for Anynet+. But it turns out that I can program my TiVo remote to power the receiver on and off at the same time as the TV. This isn't really as good as Anynet since the devices could get out of sync, but it's usable. I was also hoping to get an on-screen volume display through Anynet, but it turns out that the Onkyo actually does have an on-screen volume display. The caveat is that it only displays the volume when you're using an analog video input (not HDMI). The reason for this is that the HDMI inputs are just repeated out the HDMI output without any video processing, so it can't insert the volume bars.

So, I haven't decided 100% which one I'm going to keep, but it's certainly looking like the Samsung will be going back to Best Buy. I'll probably wait for my TV to arrive so I can at least try out Anynet+ and see if it blows me away. If anyone wants me to try anything in particular while I have both receivers, let me know and I'll do my best.

The best way to do this is by using a universal remote such as a Harmony. It will control almost every component from almost every brand much better than Anynet+ (but PS3 owners do need an extra device so that IR signals can be used, not bluetooth). Prices start around $80-85 on amazon.com for the Harmony 550. Other popular models are the Harmony 720 ($120 at Costco ... if they have any stock!) and the Harmony 880 (about $130 from amazon.com, funky peanut shape that does not appeal to everyone). You can see some of these models if you're interested at Best Buy, but their pricing is terrible (almost MSRP). My favorite is the 720, but it can be hard to find at that price.

One button push will turn all devices on, set all the correct input and output settings on various devices, and of course, control the sound from either the TV or AVR according to the desired settings. You should never need the original device remote again.

I've used several Harmony remotes and actually still have a couple. They definitely do work, but 95% of the time that we're using the TV, we're using the TiVo. The Harmony remotes just aren't as nice to use when you're constantly fast forwarding, doing 30 second skips, and jumping back. I really prefer to use the TiVo remote primarily.

Yeah, but they're both digital. It says digital whether it's Dolby Digital 2.0 or 5.1.

TivoHD,

Nice review on the two systems. I figured the Samsung had several shortcomings when compared to the Onkyo 605 and you pointed them out. That Onkyo has quite a bit of versatility.

What speakers were you using, the set that comes with the Samsung? I have a hunch if you were to upgrade the speakers, you may notice a sound quality difference between the two receivers.

Good review.

Right now, I'm using JBL SCS136SI speakers and sub. I'm planning to replace those with Sonance Moderno in-wall speakers, though I'll probably stick with the JBL sub. By the way, the Onkyo can drive speakers from 4 ohms to 16 ohms. I Believe the rated power is based on 8 ohms.

You're absolutely right. It's not really comparing apples to apples. If the Samsung was available without the speakers, I'm sure it would be cheaper than the Onkyo, so it's not really fair to do a direct comparison.

However, since I never planned to use the Samsung speakers, for me it comes down to which is the better receiver. If I'm not going to use the included Samsung speakers, the Onkyo actually costs less, but this won't be the case for most people since they would have to purchase speakers with the Onkyo. I'm going to reserve my final judgment until I can put Anynet+ through its paces.

What makes buying the Samsung a better deal that say buying the Onkyo 605 with the Denon 7.1 speaker system that is going for $70 shipped on Amazon? That pairing would go for under $500. From what I've been reading the Samsung speakers are nothing special so the Denon speakers can't be any worse if they are at all.

Unless this Anynet+ thing really something special and a deal maker/breaker, what makes the Samsung receiver so diverse and better than the Onkyo?

I can't speak to the quality of the Samsung speakers or those Denon speakers, but assuming they're comparable, the only advantages to the Samsung that I can think of are that it's cosmetically better looking and it supports Anynet+.

So just to confirm, you felt like the sound quality was pretty close between the two?

Correct. I couldn't tell the difference with the 8 ohm JBL speakers that I'm using, even though the Onkyo technically has twice the power output per channel than the Samsung.

Note that anynet is just Samsung's name for the HDMI-CEC feature available with HDMI 1.3. I believe other manufactures' devices that support HDMI-CEC "should" interoperate with this receiver. I've included the basis for this information below (copied from EGEAR website).
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Since its introduction to the consumer electronics industry, the HDMI cable has been at the center of several controversies. Some parties see it as a link in the home theater chain, while others berate the innocent little cable for its incompatibilities and inadequacies. E-Gear has covered the HDMI cable many times, but we're not done yet. Here we look at one small aspect of the specification that could either simplify or complicate your TV control, depending on how you look at it.

What is HDMI-CEC?
CEC stands for consumer electronics control. Essentially HDMI-CEC-enabled gear, when connected by an HDMI cable, can be controlled through one remote without any programming or setup required. It is an optional part of the HDMI specification. Up to 10 connected devices, including the display, can be controlled via HDMI. CEC is a two-way communication system in which a device sends back an acknowledgement that it received a command, assuring that devices are in their proper state. Some aspects of the technology actually originated with Europe's SCARP interface.

What manufacturers support it?
All of the major TV makers support it, though to make things confusing, they all call it something different. Samsung calls it Anynet+, Toshiba CE-Link, Panasonic EZ-Sync, Sony Bravia Theater Sync and LG uses SimpleLink.

Will it work between brands (will a Sony HTiB work with a Samsung LCD TV)?
Yes, the specification allows for universal compatibility with all manufacturers who implement the protocol. However, some manufacturers, Panasonic for instance, add additional functionality including an onscreen interface and support for digital camcorders and media cards. Samsung and Toshiba specifically told E-Gear that their use of HDMI-CEC will work with other brands. Other manufacturers said that generally it's compatible but they can't guarantee full functionality outside of their brand.

If the hardware is compatible, will any HDMI cable work?
Yes, the technology is dependent on the connected sources and TV, not the cable.

Does HDMI-CEC have anything to do with HDMI 1.3?
CEC is included in HDMI 1.3, but it was first available in HDMI 1.2a.

Should I not buy a universal remote?
Only if everything in your system uses the protocol. HDMI-CEC is a simple solution for simple systems. Most consumers' entertainment systems are more complex than a flat panel TV and HTiB. When you factor in DVRs, cable set-top-boxes, media bridges and servers and satellite radios, and other non-HDMI devices, you'll see that there's still lots of need for advanced universal remotes. CEC could become available for more devices, but currently it's only available on select HDTVs, HTiBs, DVD players and surround sound receivers. In addition, the remotes bundled with CEC devices lack the graphical LCD interfaces of the most advanced universal remotes.

The Samsung manual specifically states that Anynet+ (HDMI-CEC) will ONLY work with other Samsung devices. Most manufacturers' implementations of HDMI-CEC seem to require the other devices to be the same brand. The only exception that I've seen printed in a manual is that Onkyo's HDMI-CEC (RIHD)works with Panasonic's (EZ Sync).

Should HDMI-CEC be a standard that works across all brands that support it? Yes! In reality, does it actually work across brands? Not according to any of the manuals that I've been reading for various brands of TVs and receivers. Every one I've seen so far clearly states that the devices have to be the same brand.

Of course, I'd love to see if this is really the case. Does anyone have multiple devices that support HDMI-CEC but are different brands?

A couple more differences between the Samsung and the Onkyo:

If you're using HDMI for input and output with the Samsung, and you turn off your TV, the receiver stops outputting sound. With the Onkyo, the sound keeps going whether the TV is on or not. I prefer to have the sound stop when the TV is turned off, so the Samsung wins that round for me. But if you listen to music through an HDMI source and don't want to leave the TV on, this could be an issue. My guess is that the Samsung functions this way because it is just passing the HDCP key between the source and the TV. So when the TV's HDCP key stops, the source has to stop outputting it's HDMI signal. The Onkyo, on the other hand must have one HDCP key between itself and the source and a separate key between itself and the TV.

Another difference is that the Samsung has a single power button on the remote to toggle the unit on and off, while the Onkyo has two discrete buttons (one for on and one for off). This may not seem like a big deal, but discrete power buttons could reek havoc with some universal remotes. I had to jump through some hoops to get the single power button on my TiVo remote to power the Onkyo on and off. The Onkyo and Samsung both have discrete buttons for selecting each source, which is nice. But the Samsung also has an input button that can be used to cycle through your list of sources. I have yet to find such a button on the Onkyo, but I'd like one so I could assign it to the Input button on my TiVo remote.

No complaints about this system... but today, all of a sudden. this message pops up in my screen "you hdtv does not support HDCP...." And I think is the connection from the cable box S.A. Explorer 4250 Cablevision to the receiver to the TV, a Sammy LN-4095-d via HDMI. I guess it wants me to connect via component (blue, red, green) but the receiver dont have those... Any help for a Newbie

What do you mean ? You put the sound volume to the max ? Or does the speaker have like a controlled output on the back of each of 'em ?

You should really go to Radio Shack, get a SPL meter and calibrate your system properly. Just turning all the speaker levels up isn't the proper way to get optimal sound.

You can use the test tones built into the receiver or get a calibration CD like Video Essentials or AVIA Guide to Home Theater.

You'll appreciate your sound system more after its been calibrated properly.

I can attest to that. Before doing any calibration, the Samsung and the Onkyo really did sound the same. But after I ran the auto calibration utility on the Onkyo, it does sound much better. Now when I go back and forth, the Samsung sounds kind of flat in comparison. With proper calibration, I would assume that the Samsung would return to sounding similar to the Onkyo.

do you still have the samsung? And if so, can you do the calibration and let us know your results?

thanks