DirecTV HDTV - Page 445

I did not know that, SIR!

WOW: Digital Light Processing - Wikipedia



So, CBS Research Labs have been vindicated after all!!!

INVENTION OF COLOR TELEVISION - PART 1
Edited by MichaelLAX - 7/21/12 at 10:59am

Well, you may have been using old equipment that was MPEG-2 compatible as recently as last year, but you were not watching any of DirecTV's MPEG-2 HD channels on it (71-99) as recently as last year.

The exact date: using this new-fangled technology known as GOOGLE - ironically it seems to have been APRIL FOOL'S DAY, 2010:

Directv MPEG2 HD finally goes dark tomorrow.

I also own (as in "own" and not "lease") the DirecTiVo HR10-250 which I still use in a guest bedroom on an SD TV. It receives most of the DirecTV SD channels and OTA local HD and SD channels, but stopped receiving DirecTV's HD MPEG-2 channels when they went dark. Of course the OTA HD channels come in letterboxed in SD on that TV but would be received as full HD on an HDTV.

FYI: The existing channels 71-99 are NOT MPEG-2!

I think the better view of "jerkiness" is disparaging DirecTV and its HD fee with incorrect facts and assertions that you could have easily checked first ("At this point, they [DirecTV] should charge $10 for the HD customers who still want the SD channels, since (as far as I know) those are still using MPEG2")!
Edited by MichaelLAX - 7/21/12 at 11:02am

Um, I never said anything about the HD MPEG2 channels. Not once. Not ever. I specifically said SD. Perhaps maybe you should read what you quote before accusing someone of "shooting from the hip".

The SD channels have been and, until someone points me to something that says they are no longer available in MPEG2, are still that way. Point me to a document that says the SD channels are no longer being transmitted in MPEG2, then tell what me what I ought to be looking up, sir.

Put up or shut up, buddy. Further, I don't no what your problem is with me, but if you don't lay off with me, I'm going to raise all kinds of stink with every mod on this forum about you. Clear?

By the way, I have the right to complain about the HD fee. It means I'm paying for an SD programming package AND an HD package when all I watch are HD channels. That's bull.
Edited by NetworkTV - 7/21/12 at 7:47pm

The bickering and name calling stops now.

Maybe I can give some thoughts that could clear up some confusion. Then again, maybe not. I'm not exactly an expert .

- All DirecTv SD channels are broadcast in MPEG-2. This is to maintain backward compatibility with legacy receivers. The 704x480 resolution has been down converted to 480x480. (Let's make the image even softer!)

- The only exception to this (that I'm aware) is The NASA channel which is encoded @ MPEG-4, and is sent at full resolution. It's therefore available only to directv receivers capable of receiving MPEG-4 signals.

- All HD signals sent over satellite are encoded with MPEG-4.

- All SD and HD signals recorded OTA (via antenna) are sent by broadcasters using MPEG-2, which is part of the ATSC standard.

- Personally, on my DVR, I notice that HD encoded @ MPEG-2 (OTA) takes slightly more than twice as much hard drive space as the MPEG-4 version.



Please feel free to point out any errors.

That makes sense, since the D* DVRs don't recompress anything. They record the signal (be it via the satellite or OTA, in the case of those with a tuner) exactly how it is received. This is unlike the standalone Tivos (at least the older models, anyway) that offer(ed) a few record quality settings. I haven't seen the latest software to know if this is still the case.

On D*, even what channel you record will make a difference in how large a recording is.

Since you brought up size....about how large is a 1hr 720p MPEG-4 file on DirecTV? How about a 1hr 1080i CBS MPEG4 program?
OTA 720p I see anywhere from 6.1 GB-3.3 GB/hr (the 3.3 is what my local ABC channel is currently broadcasting because of LWN ) and for 1080i it ranges from 6.1-7.2GB/hr with the higher for no sub CBS. So are you saying you can see file sizes <2GB/hr using MPEG-4?

NetworkTV-Tivos only have the quality settings when recording analog channels, digital channels record the channel as-is with no compression. Since I no longer record analog channels I no longer have the choice of compression ratio.

From my experience, there's no magic number since various channels run at different bit rates. For example, an hour of HD on ESPN (720p) is larger than an hour of HD on ABC family (also 720p) - not much, but there is a difference. Even OTA vs cable can make a difference. I know I can get at least two episodes of Burn Notice in the space of one episode of Once Upon A Time.

I've even noticed that on HD channels that upconvert SD to HD resolution take up less space when airing upconverted SD as opposed to native HD - even if they stretch the video or fill the pillar bar region with content. So, Mad Men takes up far more space than the upconverts of The Rifleman on AMC.

Keep in mind, too, that the time of day makes a difference. D* dynamically assigns bandwidth based on need throughout the day. So an afternoon re-air of "The Walking Dead" might not take as much space as the first airing if the bandwidth allocation changes.
I assumed there might be something like that, which is why I qualified with "older" Tivos, since those were analog only.
Edited by NetworkTV - 7/22/12 at 7:43am

I feel your pain on the consistency and pricing. I've been with DTV for 11 years, myself. I still pay about $115/month for two DVRs (one HD) with SHOtime, the HD package, and protection plan. It's CSR roulette every time I call to get help, always have to go through the automated B*S on the phone with every call to get to a human, etc.. and the charges for programming seem to go up regularly. I also refuse to do auto-pay as I always have to call them to correct errors in billing, too. I'm really getting tired of DirecTV, but I despise cable companies even more so it's a hard call. This holds especially true when I have a good deal for my phone line at home and DSL, so no reason to move to cable for Internet.

I guess I should see if going to auto-pay and a whole-home DVR would drop my bill at all. I'm not paying $500 to have them come out to set up the whole-home crap, though.

I did misread the post: so an apology is in order.

Time for reading glasses?

good post; thank you!

How do you determine the amount of hard drive space used on your DVR? Which model do you have?

Winston Churchill never had DirecTV!

I don't know about other people, but knowing I have a 1TB hard drive, I can do the math based on the percentage used or freed up when I delete stuff.

That's because he got see all the programming from Discovery and the History channel live...

I'd say it's one thing to be a casual sports fan, and another to be a sports fanatic. I follow both the Clips and the Lakers but I'm not a diehard fan of either. If I had to choose one, I'd probably pick the Clips. After following them through all the years of badness, I'm not abandoning them now when they actually have talent.
I usually like what NBATV does, especially Gametime. They have some good hosts like Matt Winer and Rick Kamla, along with some good analysts like Brent Barry and Dennis Scott (especially when compared to someone like Rose on ESPN...he's awful). When they're moving around from game-to-game, it's fun to watch/listen to. I was pretty happy when DirecTV moved NBA TV down to Choice Xtra.

Not sure what I am missing here: but how do you see space available? You have connected an external HD to your DirecTV DVR and then you connect it to a computer to see how much space is used or available? If so, please confirm that these files are encrypted in a way that you cannot use them outside of playing on your DirecTV DVR.

It's a calculated percentage. If he has a 1TB drive, then he has 931GB of usable space. If he used about 5% of that space, then he knows he used about 46.6GB, since that's 5% of 931.

Edit: Actually, maybe less than 931GB...I don't know what file system DirecTV uses or if they cannibalize some of that space for their own purposes.
Edited by moob - 7/22/12 at 3:18pm

My OTA Tivo HD makes it much easier, go into INFO screen, press DOWN and the file size(down to the 100th of a GB) is displayed

I'm assuming I'm getting roughly 900GB of usable storage (taking into account the usable drive space and assuming D8 is taking around 25- 30GB for their own nefarious purposes), which, while not as easy as an even TB, is still a good guide, plus or minus a few GB.

Besides, since I know I'm noting getting an even TB, it's just easier to do the math at 900GB.
It's an internal drive I installed when the old one went bad. I didn't want to go through exchanging the DVR since I was otherwise happy with it, so I opted to just pop a new drive in. Assuming 900GB of space available to me and knowing that 1% equals anywhere from 2 hours (least compressed HD material) to 4 hours (upconverted SD on an HD channel - I don't ever record native SD), it means the recordings are each taking up anywhere from 2.25GB to 4.5GB. So, from that, I can estimate roughly a 3.5GB average.

I'm not reading 445 pages. But I recently upgraded my DSS dish and receivers from SD DirecTiVo's to HD DirecTiVo's. My rooftop equipment was upgraded from an old 18" oval triple feedhorn dish to a new 24" Slimline. Many many of the DirecTV channels I now get in HD suffer from appalling compression artifacts. Live broadcasts on channels such as Fox News do not have the same problem.

I assume that this is a source quality issue caused by a basic lack of bandwidth and attempting to squeeze too many channels onto too few satellites. But I thought I would ask. I am able to use my HDTV's picture-in-a-picture feature and the "swap" button to quickly switch between the OTA version of a channel and the DirecTV version. I'm keeping my rooftop antenna in service - not only for better video quality on network programming, but for the 4-dozen-odd subchannels in the SF Bay area that are simply not in the DirecTV lineup.

Tell me that I have analyzed this correctly and there is no hope of relief, and I'll go away quietly. But I'm not a happy camper. Through bad luck or poor timing, with the Viacom dispute, DirecTV has edited my favorite channel list twice in the last week...very annoying.

Dumb question, and please excuse me for asking, but have you checked to see what resolution(s) your HD DirecTiVo is outputting? Up until a couple of weeks ago I was using an OTA HD TiVo that gave the best results when set to output only 1080i.

I switched from the OTA box to DirecTV's HR24-500 DVR, set the box to output only 1080i and 1080p. I was apprehensive about the pq for locals as the Dish HD locals where I work (I sell tvs) truly are unwatchable due to compression. I was pleasantly surprised to find the D locals were virtually indistinguishable from the OTA pq. Of course there are a lot fewer locals here in the Fresno market than in the SF/Bay area.

Gary: I suspect that it is an alignment problem. Ask DirecTV to send out a serviceman again and have him check how well the dish is aimed at the proper satellites.

First thing he should do is check and make sure his DirecTV Tivo receivers are set up and outputting HD resolutions. I'm not familiar with the new DirecTV Tivo so I don't know where to go to set that up. However, most TVs will have a button that you can hit that will tell you what kind of signal it is recieving. He needs to make sure the TV is getting a 720p or 1080i signal.

Then he should check the satellite readings himself (or if he calls DirecTV they will most likely make him check the readings). Readings for the 99C, 101C, 103Ca and 103CB sats should be in the mid 80's or higher. If not then yes, he should ask them to send someone back out to get the dish fixed.

there should a be light showing what mode it is on you need 1080 or 720 to be on for HD

HD from D* should be virtually indistinguishable from OTA HD.

That being said, the HD DirectTiVo's are so crippled in their abilities and functionality, that not many people actually bought them, so I would think most here are unfamiliar with how they actually work and what they're capable of.

I'll echo what Gary McCoy said. DirecTV locals do not look as good as OTA locals. We did a comparison a couple of months ago, and the image quality does improve by going to OTA. It's not a huge change, but it is noticeable. That said, OTA has its issues too. Our local NBC has weird brightness shifts during overlayed advertising, and ABC has skipping sound. I'm assuming both are errors at our local station.

I'm not sure you know what the term "echo" means.

Either way, I've done multiple comparisons over the last 10 years on calibrated displays and currently the difference between D* and OTA is very minor. I can see a difference on my 126" display, but you have to look really hard to see it on my 65" displays and they look identical on my 42" display.

Sorry if that was somehow misleading... He indicated that there was a noticeable change, and that's the part I meant to support. I definitely don't find it appalling as he did, so perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. But it's absolutely not "virtually indistinguishable" either. And that's on our comparatively tiny 59" display.

The growing theme I keep reading about on this forum and on dbstalk is that D* really takes care of new customers but after the discounts & promos are up and when a customer is no longer under contract you really have to know how to negotiate with their CSR's or more specifically talk to their retention's department to get the big discounts and free hardware upgrades.

While I agree that type of customer service really sucks. Honestly all of the service providers nowadays are the same way when it comes to customer service.I have AT&T U-Verse DSL right now and I'm on their turbo max DSL plan at 24MB's down and the other day I had to spend a hour on the phone with one of their CSR account specialists before he finally managed to give me a one time $60 credit and $5 off a month discount for 12 months to keep me a customer and not switch to my local cable company for internet service.I had all of the price comparison and difference in speed between DSL & Cable modem and I know right now AT&T is offering the plan I'm on which I'm paying $58 a month to new customers for $44.99 a month for a full year.

Now with Directv I'm about 6 days from when I got installed a month ago with a HR34, 3 H25-700's, whole home DVR, premier package, and The Filipino Package.I signed up with the AAA discount with all off the national Directv offers, free NFL Sunday Ticket, and managed to stack refer a friend discount, signed up for auto bill pay which knocked off $10 for the $20 monthly advance receiver fee.Had to pay $128 up front for the $99 HR34 + processing fee.First month bill came out to $80.

Then when the Viacom issue happened I called a few times and got the following:

-Upgraded to NFL Sunday Ticket Max for free.But on that call I complained about hearing about the new promo that started on July 19th where new customers got NFL Sunday Ticket Max for free and told the retention rep if I had known I would have waited to sign up on the 19th instead.CSR rep after putting me on hold for 2 minutes gave me the upgrade.
-Second call I did complain about loss of Viacom channels and said my kids were complaining about not being able to watch Nick Jr and that I was missing comedy central.1st normal CSR only offered $5 credit for 1 month.I asked to be transferred to retention's. Retention CSR was nicer and showed more effort and gave me $10 off for 3 months.
-Third call I was calling to cancel the protection plan I signed up for when I signed the contract after the install was done.I canceled it online on the directv site.But I wanted to call to make sure I didn't owe anything and will still within the grace period to cancel the protection plan.CSR was the one on this call who asked me about the Viacom issue and they offered me another $10 credit for 3 months.
-4th call I was calling to find out about combining my AT&T U-Verse DSL Internet bill with my Directv bill which would give another $5 off a month.Directv service rep again offered up a $10 credit for 2 months.

Next month Directv bill I'm expecting to be in the $45 to $50 range for premier package, The Filipino Channel package, HR34, and 3 H25 HD receivers, and whole home DVR.

Now a lot of people who are longtime D* customers are going to say "this is where the discord is and un happiness with them starts". I really understand that but at the same time I just honestly think a lot of those customers don't or are un willing to put the time & effort in to speak and negotiate to get discounts, credits, or hardware upgrades.

In your case you might want to call Directv say cancel at the prompt, when you get to a live person ask if they are retention's rep.Explain your situation and why you aren't happy.If you don't like their 1st offer decline and ask what else they can offer.They usually will put you on hold for a minute or 2 and increase their discounts.If you are wanting a hardware upgrade or home whole DVR it will probably require you to sign up for at least a 1 year contract if you currently aren't under contract.

Worse comes to worse then schedule a cancel and set it a week or 2 out and see if they call you back and really make an effort and give into what you are asking for.If that still does not work then cancel and sign up as a new Directv customer under someone else at your property to get the new customer discounts and hardware you want.Or you might want to give Dish Network a look and consider them since you refuse to sign up with your local cable company.
Edited by Filipinoyakuza - 7/24/12 at 3:01am

Honestly I don't even know wtf a retention rep is. I also just got a "long time member" deal upgrading my old second R22 DVR to another HR24, which has also locked me in for another 24 months, so I can't really threaten to cancel service now.

Perhaps a bit OT but............... Does anyone know if you do the Pandora upgrade if that affects all platforms? What I mean is, will you benefit from the higher bit rate and other benefits on all devices including D*?