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WSR Greg Rogers Sony VPL-VW60 Review, official thread!

post #1 of 481
9/27/07 at 4:18pm
Thread Starter 
My Sony VPL-VW60 review will be posted on the Widescreen Review subscribers web side tomorrow (Friday 9/28) at noon (Pacific Time). I'll be around for a couple of hours after it is posted to respond to questions or comments.

As usual the review is copyrighted material from Widescreen Review and should NOT be reposted anywhere. WSR will stop posting my reviews in advance if they get reposted. So please don't spoil these opportunities to read the reviews in advance.
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post #2 of 481
9/27/07 at 4:32pm
reio-ta
You can subscribe online to WSR. If you are not a current subscriber do subscribe now since activation can take same time.
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post #3 of 481
9/27/07 at 4:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

When is it going to be available at a bookstore in print? Can I just buy that review online in pdf or whatever format?

I don't know when the magazine appears in bookstores. It mails to subscriber's around Oct 15 so I imagine it is not too long after that. You can also get an online WSR subscription to read the the subscriber's website. If you want one quickly (i.e. for tomorrow) I suggest you call the WSR office before 5 pm Pacific time today and tell them you need access for tomorrow so they have time to set it up in the system. The decision to post this tomorrow was just made (because I'm busy next week) so the person you talk to may not know yet that the review is being put on the web site tomorrow.
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post #4 of 481
9/27/07 at 8:22pm
Greg,

I read your review on the RS1 and it was great so I am looking forward on reading
the one for the VPL-Vw60. In your opinion, which one is better?
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post #5 of 481
9/27/07 at 8:31pm
WSR a great resource and Greg is a great voice for our area of interest. The online subscription will take a couple of days so go for it and then you can follow the discussion here with the context of the review.

This should be a very good read. Looking forward to it.
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post #6 of 481
9/27/07 at 8:44pm
The WSR web server is already overloaded 15 hours before the review. Ease up on the "reload" button guys!

--Dan
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post #7 of 481
9/27/07 at 9:54pm
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post #8 of 481
9/28/07 at 8:02am
Is the site still down for a everyone?
http://www.widescreenreview.com/
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post #9 of 481
9/28/07 at 8:34am
been down for me since yesterday, still down as of 8:34AM pacific time today.

Addendum:It's up now at 10:00Am but no review yet (2 more hours or so I guess).
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post #10 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
The review is now posted on the WSR subscriber's website. I will hang out here for about 3 hours to answer questions and respond to any comments you may have. Please only put 1 question per posting. It is much easier for me to answer that way.

Thanks
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post #11 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:04pm
OK...it's out now!
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post #12 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:06pm
First question!

Greg - Can you confirm the MSRP at $4999? There is some continued confusion on whether this is MSRP or MAP. Personally, I'm going with you and Sonystyle.com, but it's really the first question to ask for me (I can't buy it if I don't know how much it actually costs!).

Bill
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post #13 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:09pm
Sony may have changed it to $4999 officially, but originally it was $5495 MSRP and $4995 MAP. Regardless, there is no change in what a dealer will sell it for (it's up to your local dealer to determine the sale price).
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post #14 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

First question!

Greg - Can you confirm the MSRP at $4999? There is some continued confusion on whether this is MSRP or MAP. Personally, I'm going with you and Sonystyle.com, but it's really the first question to ask for me (I can't buy it if I don't know how much it actually costs!).

Bill

That is the price Sony gave to me to put in the review.
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post #15 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:16pm
I think they ditched the $500 differencial between the 2 (which a lot of companies are doing since, well, it's stupid).
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post #16 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:21pm
Greg,
Do you think the VW60 is sharper due to a better lens or due to the fact that you mentioned there seems to be some slight edge enhancement being applied on the vw60 even with sharpness set to 0?

Great review by the way!
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post #17 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:25pm
Greg - Kudos, as always. A comprehensive job. Can't wait for the HDG-4000 to go on sale.

I checked the HDMI input section, but did not see whether Sony supported taking a 10 or 12-bit 4:2:2 signal. Were you able to test higher bit-depths as part of the review?

Bill
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post #18 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P View Post

Greg,
Do you think the VW60 is sharper due to a better lens or due to the fact that you mentioned there seems to be some slight edge enhancement being applied on the vw60 even with sharpness set to 0?

Great review by the way!

I'm really not sure what accounts for the much improved sharpness but it doesn't appear the lens was changed. I think the slight edge enhancement is part of the reason, but the pixel structure was also clearer, which wouldn't be affected by edge enhancement. Perhaps changes to the panels have something to do with that?
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post #19 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

Greg - Kudos, as always. A comprehensive job. Can't wait for the HDG-4000 to go on sale.

I checked the HDMI input section, but did not see whether Sony supported taking a 10 or 12-bit 4:2:2 signal. Were you able to test higher bit-depths as part of the review?

Bill

I believe the processing is 10-bit. The processing is 4:4:4 which gives it an edge in color detail vs the processing chips that do 4:2:2 processing.

I can't wait for the HDG-4000 to start shipping either. Then I won't have to work so hard!
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post #20 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:32pm
Clint...er, I mean Greg ...nice review as usual. I especially liked the explanation on how the 0.1 pixel shift works. Up until then it was a complete mystery to me, but now it makes a lot of sense.

I'm still reading, so I will probably have some questions about the RCP a little later.
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post #21 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:34pm
Did you measure the contrast ratio at the maximum throw as well? I dont believe this was mentioned in the review. Thanks again for the review and for answering these questions!
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post #22 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P View Post

Did you measure the contrast ratio at the maximum throw as well? I dont believe this was mentioned in the review. Thanks again for the review and for answering these questions!

Yep, it's in the review. It's the first set of CR's given in the Brightness and Contrast Ratio section (paragraph 2). The maximum CR was 19,100:1.
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post #23 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Clint...er, I mean Greg ...nice review as usual. I especially liked the explanation on how the 0.1 pixel shift works. Up until then it was a complete mystery to me, but now it makes a lot of sense.

It's basically a digital filter. Upsample/shift/downsample. But that is too complex to explain in a review. Conceptually and practically, it converts single pixel lines into 2 pixels (except for integer pixel shifts) as described. It is easy to see what happens when you input single pixel 1080p lines with 1 or 2 primary colors at a time.
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post #24 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:48pm
Greg, what is your thought on the many AVSers swapping their VW50s for the VW60? Seem like there are quite a few expecting a significant leap in performance. Expecting too much?
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post #25 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

I believe the processing is 10-bit. The processing is 4:4:4 which gives it an edge in color detail vs the processing chips that do 4:2:2 processing.

I can't wait for the HDG-4000 to start shipping either. Then I won't have to work so hard!

Alright, two follow-ups if you don't mind. Only one of which is related to the review, and I bet that is the one you may be most willing to answer.

1) A 10-bit processor means that it could take a 10-bit signal, but do you know whether it will take anything higher than 8-bit YCbCr or RGB as an input via HDMI?

and

2) (OT) Will the HDG-4000 allow users to specify bit-depth (8, 10 or 12-bit 4:2:2) for the output signal so that we can test these ourselves?

Do let us know when you will be taking pre-orders for the new signal generator. We always like new toys!

Bill
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post #26 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:53pm
Greg, it seems as if the RCP is the same old one that Sony has used in previous models, right? If so, I assume that as the saturation of a primary is pulled down that luminance also decreases. Did you at any point adjust the primaries so that they were spot on target? And if so, did it throw off the color decoding significantly?

I wonder if luminance could be restored in this situation using outboard RGB luminance controls.
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post #27 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaraStreisand View Post

Greg, what is your thought on the many AVSers swapping their VW50s for the VW60? Seem like there are quite a few expecting a significant leap in performance. Expecting too much?

I think it's a big leap performance. The summary paragraph ... sums up my feelings.
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post #28 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

Yep, it's in the review. It's the first set of CR's given in the Brightness and Contrast Ratio section (paragraph 2). The maximum CR was 19,100:1.


Greg,
How much is the gain in contrast when moving from minimum throw to the maximum throw ratio of the zoom lens?

Nice review, thanks.
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post #29 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:56pm
Thanks Greg. Followup question, please. One of two main things keeping me back from the VW-50 was my perception that it was not BRIGHT enough (in addition to a "murky/not clear" sense about the screen). Jason's early review seemed to indicate that the VW-60 (Black Pearl) was not much brighter than the VW-50. Please reiterate about the perceived and actual brightness.
Thanks again !
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post #30 of 481
9/28/07 at 12:59pm
Nice Greg...

In your setup paragraph you mention the center of the lens can be anywhere within the screen height.
Does that require flipping the unit upside down above the center line, or can it be right side up (shelf mounted) any where within the height?
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