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Blu-Ray Dolby Failure

post #1 of 25
9/30/07 at 6:56pm
Thread Starter 
Why doesn't Dolby Digital from a Blu-Ray player work through the optical outputs of a receiver? Will TrueHD ever work on a receiver that's not equipped with it...but the player can decode it? I suddenly feel that all my equipment is suddenly obsolete...
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post #2 of 25
9/30/07 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by htrain88 View Post

Why doesn't Dolby Digital from a Blu-Ray player work through the optical outputs of a receiver? Will TrueHD ever work on a receiver that's not equipped with it...but the player can decode it? I suddenly feel that all my equipment is suddenly obsolete...

???Dolby digital can work from a BDplayer through the optical INPUTS of a receiver. Is that what you were asking?
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post #3 of 25
9/30/07 at 8:41pm
Thread Starter 
I know that they CAN work through the optical outputs. However, my receiver is not able to convert this newest version of DD. There must be something about the upgraded sound in the BD that's frustrating my dolby decoder in my receiver. I have the latest firmware too--Sony promised that this would fix the problem.
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post #4 of 25
10/1/07 at 1:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by htrain88 View Post

I know that they CAN work through the optical outputs. However, my receiver is not able to convert this newest version of DD. There must be something about the upgraded sound in the BD that's frustrating my dolby decoder in my receiver. I have the latest firmware too--Sony promised that this would fix the problem.

Optical and coax don't have the bandwidth to carry TrueHD (nor DD+ either, I think). You'll have to send them as PCM over HDMI or multichannel analog.

If you're talking about garden-variety DD like on SD DVDs, your BD player should send those out over coax or optical just fine. You have to make sure that SPDIF is set to "bitstream" in the player's Audio setup menu...
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post #5 of 25
10/1/07 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Optical and coax don't have the bandwidth to carry TrueHD (nor DD+ either, I think). You'll have to send them as PCM over HDMI or multichannel analog.

If you're talking about garden-variety DD like on SD DVDs, your BD player should send those out over coax or optical just fine. You have to make sure that SPDIF is set to "bitstream" in the player's Audio setup menu...

I have tried with 2 different BluRay players, the Sony S-300 and the Panasonic BD-10A. Both would send DD over the digital output on a standard DVD. Neither would pass DD from a BluRay movie. Yes I did have Bitstream "ON" in the setup. Anyone else running into this, or have a work around? Thanks - PK
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post #6 of 25
10/1/07 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk442 View Post

I have tried with 2 different BluRay players, the Sony S-300 and the Panasonic BD-10A. Both would send DD over the digital output on a standard DVD. Neither would pass DD from a BluRay movie. Yes I did have Bitstream "ON" in the setup. Anyone else running into this, or have a work around? Thanks - PK

Maybe you need to pick the DD track when you play the disk. I had at least one case where it defaulted to PCM or TrueHD, I forget which. In most cases however, the player [PS3] picks the DD track as the default.
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post #7 of 25
10/1/07 at 9:26am
What receiver? what year was it made?
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post #8 of 25
10/1/07 at 10:32am
I've heard that some older model receivers have problems with 640kb Dolby digital bitstreams. Yours could possibly be one of those. That would explain why your DVDs playback fine which are 448 and not blu-ray. If you can rent blurays, you could try to rent one of the few blu-ray discs that use a 448kb Dolby digital bitstream and see what the results are.
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post #9 of 25
10/1/07 at 10:34am
Coax and optical cables are bandwidth capable of carrying high bit audio (multi-channel PCM, dts-HD MA and DolbyTrueHD), but the equipment makers instead of updating the SPDIF and Coax standard to a 2.0, they are forcing the HDMI with HDCP (due to content provider fears of piracy).

But I do like the all digital path for the video through the newer AVRs. Analog video switching through an AVR usually resulted in slight degradation. It was a tradeoff for the convenience of a one stop switching spot. Digital video should not be affected especially on models that are just video pass throught (ie. no video processing).
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post #10 of 25
10/1/07 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Optical and coax don't have the bandwidth to carry TrueHD (nor DD+ either, I think). You'll have to send them as PCM over HDMI or multichannel analog.

Nothing to do with bandwidth, what the S/PDIF interfaces support are governed by internationally accepted standards. The advanced CODECs are not included in the standards for coaxial and Toslink S/PDIF. Essentially, those interfaces are only provided for backwards compatibility, nothing more!
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post #11 of 25
10/1/07 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwellon View Post

I've heard that some older model receivers have problems with 640kb Dolby digital bitstreams. Yours could possibly be one of those. That would explain why your DVDs playback fine which are 448 and not blu-ray. If you can rent blurays, you could try to rent one of the few blu-ray discs that use a 448kb Dolby digital bitstream and see what the results are.

Excellent thought. I'll bet you're right.
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post #12 of 25
10/1/07 at 1:41pm
How is somebody's old equipment Dolby's "failure"?

BTW, all Dolby Digital decoders, even the old ones, are compatible with AC-3 bit rates up to 640 kb/s. That was (is) part of the hardware spec.
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post #13 of 25
10/1/07 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Nothing to do with bandwidth, what the S/PDIF interfaces support are governed by internationally accepted standards. The advanced CODECs are not included in the standards for coaxial and Toslink S/PDIF. Essentially, those interfaces are only provided for backwards compatibility, nothing more!


I stand corrected. Thanks, Trevor!
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post #14 of 25
10/1/07 at 9:33pm
Thread Starter 
Mfgrs. should indicate that 5.1 analog inputs are necessary for all audio formats to be operable.

And to address that thoughtless post..."old" equipment is not relevant to this discussion. The "old" equipment is upgradeable. The question was merely posed to inquire as to the correct upgrade path.
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post #15 of 25
10/1/07 at 9:40pm
My Receiver is a 2001 B&K 307. It has 5.1 analog inputs which I am using with my SACD player. It supports up to 96k audio sampling rates. It will play Dolby Digital 5.1 on my HD-DVD discs , as well as DVD's, with no problem (even DVD's played on the BlueRay player - but pop a BD disc in an its back to dolby surround (matrixed from 2 channels). I understand that the newer DD+/DD True are better, but I don't want to fork out for a new receiver at this time. At any rate, I am completely happy with DD 5.1 / AC-3 and I don't like being forced into buying a new Receiver. Someone suggested trying a BD recorded with 448k DD. I think that is a great idea, how do I find/know which ones those are?
If that is the case 640k/vs448k bit rate, then I just ask why the BD authors wouldn't have supported down conversion? As always thanks for everyones input, ideas on a work around, etc. - PK
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post #16 of 25
10/1/07 at 10:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk442 View Post

My Receiver is a 2001 B&K 307. It has 5.1 analog inputs which I am using with my SACD player. It supports up to 96k audio sampling rates. It will play Dolby Digital 5.1 on my HD-DVD discs , as well as DVD's, with no problem (even DVD's played on the BlueRay player - but pop a BD disc in an its back to dolby surround (matrixed from 2 channels). I understand that the newer DD+/DD True are better, but I don't want to fork out for a new receiver at this time. At any rate, I am completely happy with DD 5.1 / AC-3 and I don't like being forced into buying a new Receiver. Someone suggested trying a BD recorded with 448k DD. I think that is a great idea, how do I find/know which ones those are?
If that is the case 640k/vs448k bit rate, then I just ask why the BD authors wouldn't have supported down conversion? As always thanks for everyones input, ideas on a work around, etc. - PK


A friend of mine had issues with cutting out on his sony strde985, I had the newer 995 and had no issues. These were 03 & then 04 models.
Casino Royale and I believe open season both have 448kbps DD tracks, I would say those are two safe discs to try. I'm surprised this is an issue, since both HDDVD & BD both use as base DD 640kbps. Have you tryed switching inputs on your receiver, use the one your having luck with on HDDVD on BD and vice versa? Have you tryed Coax vs. Optical and vice versa? Let us know what you find out!

For $399 you could get an HDMI equiped Onkyo ya know? Solve all your problems. But I know thats not what you wanna hear.
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post #17 of 25
10/1/07 at 10:23pm
pk442, I'm not sure what your exact problem is. You are connected via optical (SPDIF), right? Are you saying when playing plain Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks, you get only 2 channels? What format does your receiver see? PCM?

RE: discs with DVD bit-rate audio tracks on BD...

There are numerous titles that have 448kbps or less Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks on them... for example: Monster House, Casino Royale, House of Flying Daggers, Tears of the Sun, Stealth, Into The Blue, Superman II, etc. Most commentary audio tracks are lower bitrate, too.
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post #18 of 25
10/2/07 at 9:20am
Thread Starter 
I have the same problem as PK442. Casino Royale...same problem. DD will not function without stuttering. Will only work if I switch to PCM 2channel (Dolby Pro Logic). I assume that PK42's problems would clear up through the 5.1 analog inputs. I just bought an AVR307 so we shall see...
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post #19 of 25
10/2/07 at 11:10am
Upgrading to the PS3 with BR with hdmi has cost me... no ****... $12000

You thought just the stand alone PS3 was expensive at $599...
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post #20 of 25
10/2/07 at 11:34am
I hear you. Seven months after my PS3 purchase I bought a new $900 Onkyo 805. And now I need a new 1080p projector and I will finally be FULL HD video and audio capable.
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post #21 of 25
10/2/07 at 8:25pm
Ditto.

First it was the PS3.

Then the 1080p HC5000..

then upgraded the receiver to HDMI (Yamaha RX2700)

then upgraded the HC5000 to JVC HD1

then upgraded the RXV2700 to the Onkyo 875!

Geez! When will this stop!??
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post #22 of 25
10/4/07 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Ditto.

First it was the PS3.

Then the 1080p HC5000..

then upgraded the receiver to HDMI (Yamaha RX2700)

then upgraded the HC5000 to JVC HD1

then upgraded the RXV2700 to the Onkyo 875!

Geez! When will this stop!??

Never. There may be pauses or 'rest stops' along the way, but the upgrade bug is hard to resist...
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post #23 of 25
10/5/07 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post

pk442, I'm not sure what your exact problem is. You are connected via optical (SPDIF), right? Are you saying when playing plain Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks, you get only 2 channels? What format does your receiver see? PCM?

RE: discs with DVD bit-rate audio tracks on BD...

There are numerous titles that have 448kbps or less Dolby Digital 5.1 tracks on them... for example: Monster House, Casino Royale, House of Flying Daggers, Tears of the Sun, Stealth, Into The Blue, Superman II, etc. Most commentary audio tracks are lower bitrate, too.

Yes I am connected via Optical. My receiver lites up the little "Analog - Dolby Surround" logo. The main display says Surround 6 (this is for 5 channel sound going to a 7 speaker/amplifier - which I have). When I put a plain old sd DVD in the player with the same connections and setup it lites up the "Digital - Dolby Digital" logo, and the main display says DD Surround EX. You can distinctly hear the differerence as the surrounds are less active and sound is less precisely located when it is in the Dolby surround mode - its more like slightly extended stereo.

As I said, I do not have this problem with my HDDVD player. Both the Toshibal XA2 HDDVD and the Panasonic BD-10a are hooked up through a component video (and digital optical) switching box that then feeds the B&K receiver. I found last night that if I change the setup to PCM sound (vs bitstream), I still get the same Analong-Dolby Surround, but I also get the audio during the preview section of the disc (Casino Royal). Previously with bitstream - I did not get any audio until the main menu appeared. Total Recall which advertises a Dolby Digital EX sound track still just gives me analog-dolby surround. DD EX tracks on regular DVD work fine. I did not check last night, but from previous experiments, I believe that when I have PCM selected in the setup instead of Bitstream, then even standard DVD's do not get DD, only dolby surround processing.

Does any one know for sure - If Blu Ray does NOT support standard DD ? Thanks for everyones help - PK
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post #24 of 25
10/5/07 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk442 View Post

Yes I am connected via Optical. My receiver lites up the little "Analog - Dolby Surround" logo. The main display says Surround 6 (this is for 5 channel sound going to a 7 speaker/amplifier - which I have). When I put a plain old sd DVD in the player with the same connections and setup it lites up the "Digital - Dolby Digital" logo, and the main display says DD Surround EX. You can distinctly hear the differerence as the surrounds are less active and sound is less precisely located when it is in the Dolby surround mode - its more like slightly extended stereo.

As I said, I do not have this problem with my HDDVD player. Both the Toshibal XA2 HDDVD and the Panasonic BD-10a are hooked up through a component video (and digital optical) switching box that then feeds the B&K receiver. I found last night that if I change the setup to PCM sound (vs bitstream), I still get the same Analong-Dolby Surround, but I also get the audio during the preview section of the disc (Casino Royal). Previously with bitstream - I did not get any audio until the main menu appeared. Total Recall which advertises a Dolby Digital EX sound track still just gives me analog-dolby surround. DD EX tracks on regular DVD work fine. I did not check last night, but from previous experiments, I believe that when I have PCM selected in the setup instead of Bitstream, then even standard DVD's do not get DD, only dolby surround processing.

Does any one know for sure - If Blu Ray does NOT support standard DD ? Thanks for everyones help - PK

Does your reciever have a mode button? Sometimes my auto detect doesn't work right and I have to "select" Optical mode instead of analog.
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post #25 of 25
10/5/07 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk442 View Post

Yes I am connected via Optical. My receiver lites up the little "Analog - Dolby Surround" logo

Unless I'm wrong,your receiver should say OPTICAL- Dolby Surround.You have not got it on the right setting man.Check your receiver settings and you will fix it fast I feel.


sorry I didn't read the rest of your post.
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