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Official Axiom Owner's Thread - Page 39

post #1141 of 1416
3/5/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToHT View Post

Why so much hate for Axiom?

No hate. Axiom has always said their speakers can't be beat only matched or similarily good. If thats true, why are they building a more expensive speaker above the M80 I've even seen Axiom fans compared the M80 to the Revel $15,000 speaker. They said something along the lines of "I can't afford a $15k speaker so the M80 is my only choice"

The hate and attacks I received on the Axiom forum was because I don't tow the company line like the handful of fanboys over there. I said something about the EP175, which I purchased used for a soundbar sub. I made a comment that "for the price, Axiom subs suck". Performance wise there are not bad subwoofers far from it. But when you factor in the extra high cost compared to other brands they are not that great.

Like Ian, Amy, Alan have said the M80 is about as good as you can get. Why build an M100 or whatever their going to call it.
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post #1142 of 1416
3/5/12 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

No hate. Axiom has always said their speakers can't be beat only matched or similarily good. If thats true, why are they building a more expensive speaker above the M80 I've even seen Axiom fans compared the M80 to the Revel $15,000 speaker. They said something along the lines of "I can't afford a $15k speaker so the M80 is my only choice"

The hate and attacks I received on the Axiom forum was because I don't tow the company line like the handful of fanboys over there. I said something about the EP175, which I purchased used for a soundbar sub. I made a comment that "for the price, Axiom subs suck". Performance wise there are not bad subwoofers far from it. But when you factor in the extra high cost compared to other brands they are not that great.

Like Ian, Amy, Alan have said the M80 is about as good as you can get. Why build an M100 or whatever their going to call it.

I do agree with you about fanboy's and thanks for clarifying. Kind of drives me nuts too! I also agree about their subs...great sound....BIG price. I sent you a PM....please read....
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post #1143 of 1416
3/5/12 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToHT View Post

I do agree with you about fanboy's and thanks for clarifying. Kind of drives me nuts too! I also agree about their subs...great sound....BIG price. I sent you a PM....please read....

I also own Axiom products but no longer partake in their forum banter...fanaticism can be over the top at times...even for other owners of their products.
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post #1144 of 1416
3/5/12 at 10:42am
+1^

Most that get attacked on the forum usually debate about the products, but those fanboys steer the conversation into hateful, spiteful attacks on the person to distract from any product conversation that has to do with the short comings of the product or anything else that might be slightly interpeted as negative feedback.
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post #1145 of 1416
3/5/12 at 11:34am
It has been my experience that, on any company owned forum, if you behave respectfully, you will be treated respectfully. If you don't, you won't. Pretty common.

Time and again I see someone complain they were treated badly on a company forum because of what they said. They just don't get that they were treatly badly, not because of what they said, but because of how they said it.

Unfortunately, a very few of those who receive bad treatment go all over the internet on one man smear campaigns, throwing insults rather than sticking to facts, to get revenge.
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post #1146 of 1416
3/5/12 at 12:25pm
It's been said that it's a few people that just go around bashing axiom for whatever reason. Some points that have been made by the axiom "bashers" are very valid. Does it make sense that people go around bashing axiom for no apparent reason? Just maybe there is more to the story. If you do a little research you just might come away with a different answer. It does get a little old to hear how they can score similary good against so many brands and much more expensive brands. I ordered a pair of axiom bookshelfs when I was thinking of starting a secondary sytem. I knew the claim that they are similar to the paradigm studio's but after comparing them side by side, I was dissapointed that they were not even close. paradigm was the clear winner and sent the axioms back. I had posted my findings on a different thread awhile back with pics. I have many things bookmarked with axiom owners putting down other brands and wild claims, but I won't get into that because it's just not worth it. If you really think thats it's just people bashing axiom for no reason and that axiom owners are squeaky clean, then you would be sadly mistaken. Maybe it's time for axiom owners to try a different approach and then people might just be more receptive.
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post #1147 of 1416
3/5/12 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1400 View Post

It's been said that it's a few people that just go around bashing axiom for whatever reason. Some points that have been made by the axiom "bashers" are very valid. Does it make sense that people go around bashing axiom for no apparent reason? Just maybe there is more to the story. If you do a little research you just might come away with a different answer. It does get a little old to hear how they can score similary good against so many brands and much more expensive brands. I ordered a pair of axiom bookshelfs when I was thinking of starting a secondary sytem. I knew the claim that they are similar to the paradigm studio's but after comparing them side by side, I was dissapointed that they were not even close. paradigm was the clear winner and sent the axioms back. I had posted my findings on a different thread awhile back with pics. I have many things bookmarked with axiom owners putting down other brands and wild claims, but I won't get into that because it's just not worth it. If you really think thats it's just people bashing axiom for no reason and that axiom owners are squeaky clean, then you would be sadly mistaken. Maybe it's time for axiom owners to try a different approach and then people might just be more receptive.

Dito...I have the 22's and Ascend Sierra in home and it's not even close between the 2 but I still kinda like my Axioms...fwiw.
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post #1148 of 1416
3/5/12 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

+1^

Most that get attacked on the forum usually debate about the products, but those fanboys steer the conversation into hateful, spiteful attacks on the person to distract from any product conversation that has to do with the short comings of the product or anything else that might be slightly interpeted as negative feedback.


I didn't realize you were showing examples of said behavior, thereby discouraging others from doing the same.

Give me a break. You attacked just about everyone over there as much as people countered (and vice versa). Spare me the "I'm the victim" nonsense.

Axiom speakers are fine. Paradigm I'm sure are good. I'm of the opinion that in a double blind test, most people couldn't tell the difference from one speaker to the next.

Axiom's subs are over priced compared to others, but I'm happy with the performance of my EP500. And delighted with my other Axiom speakers.

Color me a happy owner of Axiom who don't buy into fanboy antics or vitriolic postings by someone who got his feelings hurt.
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post #1149 of 1416
3/5/12 at 6:29pm
I'm pretty sure if you disliked Axiom subs on the Axiom forum not many would care. Many Axiom speaker owners use SVS or other subs (like I do).

Secondly, who the hell cares what speaker you like. I don't. I like what I like and anyone who tells me one speaker sounds better than another is full of crap. Speakers are a personal choice.

If you want suggestions then fine, we all have favorites. However saying brand x is better than brand y is BS.
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post #1150 of 1416
3/5/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewd View Post

I'm pretty sure if you disliked Axiom subs on the Axiom forum not many would care. Many Axiom speaker owners use SVS or other subs (like I do).

Secondly, who the hell cares what speaker you like. I don't. I like what I like and anyone who tells me one speaker sounds better than another is full of crap. Speakers are a personal choice.

If you want suggestions then fine, we all have favorites. However saying brand x is better than brand y is BS.

Ditto
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post #1151 of 1416
3/5/12 at 8:10pm
btw, I have a pair of excellent condition M80s (v1) and a VP150 (v1) that I'm not using now. Will let them go at a fair price.
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post #1152 of 1416
3/5/12 at 11:34pm
I remember owning the M22s and felt they were a bit bright and brought up Skiing Ninja's M22 measurements on the axiom forum, showing the cone resonance peaks...I got slammed, they told me the speakers aren't bright, and those measurements aren't legit unless released by Axiom lol (note: Axiom does not release spectral decay plots).
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post #1153 of 1416
3/6/12 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansangb View Post

Axiom speakers are fine. Paradigm I'm sure are good. I'm of the opinion that in a double blind test, most people couldn't tell the difference from one speaker to the next.

Having listened to both prior to purchasing my Axioms, I can say that Paradigms do sound better...but not better enough to warrant the price differences for surrounds.

I bought Parandigms for my front three, but Axioms for the rest of the set. The price to performance ratio was very good...and the size of the speakers is what I wanted in my surrounds.

You do get what you pay for...but sometimes the extra price does not buy enough to warrant it.
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post #1154 of 1416
3/6/12 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hansangb View Post

I didn't realize you were showing examples of said behavior, thereby discouraging others from doing the same.

Give me a break. You attacked just about everyone over there as much as people countered (and vice versa). Spare me the "I'm the victim" nonsense.

Axiom speakers are fine. Paradigm I'm sure are good. I'm of the opinion that in a double blind test, most people couldn't tell the difference from one speaker to the next.

Axiom's subs are over priced compared to others, but I'm happy with the performance of my EP500. And delighted with my other Axiom speakers.

Color me a happy owner of Axiom who don't buy into fanboy antics or vitriolic postings by someone who got his feelings hurt.

I never called anyone names. I was called "gtpooper" "troll" "stooge" and at one point someone said in the Axiom shout box that I needed to be shot by a tranq gun and needed to be put on meds. All because I felt the EP175 sucked and that it is way overpriced.

All that because I posted in response to somone asking about subwoofer. All I posted was my own personal opinion and experience with Axiom speakers and subwoofer. And their attacks were on even JC from Axiom jumped on me without even getting any information before hand, like a polite PM asking what product I owned and why I felt the way I did.

I did receive a PM over there from someone that said "I see you met everyone, nice guys until you disagree with them".

I paid my hard earned money for Axiom speakers and my opinion matters just as much as those guys over there.
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post #1155 of 1416
3/6/12 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

I never called anyone names. I was called "gtpooper" "troll" "stooge" and at one point someone said in the Axiom shout box that I needed to be shot by a tranq gun and needed to be put on meds. All because I felt the EP175 sucked and that it is way overpriced.

All that because I posted in response to somone asking about subwoofer. All I posted was my own personal opinion and experience with Axiom speakers and subwoofer. And their attacks were on even JC from Axiom jumped on me without even getting any information before hand, like a polite PM asking what product I owned and why I felt the way I did.

I did receive a PM over there from someone that said "I see you met everyone, nice guys until you disagree with them".

I paid my hard earned money for Axiom speakers and my opinion matters just as much as those guys over there.

Proof is in the pudding. Axiom pulling out of the Audioholics subwoofer shootout was a pretty clear message to me. Actions speak louder than words.
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post #1156 of 1416
3/6/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjcays View Post

It seems to be very effective and to work for many . . .

2011 SoundStage! Network Product of the Year Winners

Home-Theater Speakers: Axiom Audio Epic 80-800 home-theater speaker system

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...news&Itemid=43

My suggestion would be to check through that entire thread (that linked to a single post IIRC) to get a clearer picture of the audio engineering "knowledge" that company possesses.

BTW - who is "soundstagenetwork"? Never heard of them. Don't care..
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post #1157 of 1416
3/6/12 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John1400 View Post

It's been said that it's a few people that just go around bashing axiom for whatever reason. Some points that have been made by the axiom "bashers" are very valid. Does it make sense that people go around bashing axiom for no apparent reason?

It depends on what you consider "no apparent reason". I think there's a lot of concrete reasons to be very critical of Axiom.

Start reading here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1337283

By the way, none of the negates the simple fact that if you're happy with your Axiom's, run with it. But it doesn't give Axiom a free-pass with the sometimes shocking lack of engineering know-how this company possesses. You'll see how Axiom's people shoot themselves in the foot time and time again in that thread.
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post #1158 of 1416
3/6/12 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

. . . And their attacks were on even JC from Axiom jumped on me

Hi gtpsuper24,
Quite a serious attack coming from JC, no wonder you were offended . . .

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post #1159 of 1416
3/6/12 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

. . . But it doesn't give Axiom a free-pass with the sometimes shocking lack of engineering know-how this company possesses.

Hi Bo130,
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Axiom is one of the most knowledgeable audio speaker manufacturer; starting with its founder's role in the renowned NRC audio speaker research.http://www.axiomaudio.com/research.html

I believe that there are four main reasons why Axiom is often attacked:
- its no-compromise attitude defending that if it can't be measured or
evaluated in a double-blind-test; it is worthless.
- price is not a factor in determining the sound quality of an audio speaker; it is irrelevant.
- for the money they make the audio speaker which will please the majority
of listeners.
- more money will buy you a speaker with a different sound but not
necessarely a better speaker.
De facto, every speaker manufacturer selling more expensive speakers and owners of more expensive ones are shocked and feeled challenged. It is normal; they have the right to be. They also have the right to think otherwise and express it.

As you well know comments on Forums are based on personal interpretation and evaluation and most of the time are not objective; they are tinted opinions like yours and mine. Forums would be much more pleasant and amicable if opinions would remain opinions based on personal experience and not judgements condemning such and such brand.

As some have mentioned before, audition as many speakers as you can, preferably in your own home. I would add trust your ears for picking the one you like best; nothing else really matters.
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post #1160 of 1416
3/6/12 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjcays View Post


Hi Bo130,
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Axiom is one of the most knowledgeable audio speaker manufacturer; starting with its founder's role in the renowned NRC audio speaker research.http://www.axiomaudio.com/research.html

I believe that there are four main reasons why Axiom is often attacked:
- its no-compromise attitude defending that if it can't be measured or
evaluated in a double-blind-test; it is worthless.
- price is not a factor in determining the sound quality of an audio speaker; it is irrelevant.
- for the money they make the audio speaker which will please the majority
of listeners.
- more money will buy you a speaker with a different sound but not
necessarely a better speaker.
De facto, every speaker manufacturer selling more expensive speakers and owners of more expensive ones are shocked and feeled challenged. It is normal; they have the right to be. They also have the right to think otherwise and express it.

As you well know comments on Forums are based on personal interpretation and evaluation and most of the time are not objective; they are tinted opinions like yours and mine. Forums would be much more pleasant and amicable if opinions would remain opinions based on personal experience and not judgements condemning such and such brand.

As some have mentioned before, audition as many speakers as you can, preferably in your own home. I would add trust your ears for picking the one you like best; nothing else really matters.

On the contrary, the link i gave questioned numerous issues with Axiom speakers that people at Axiom responded to, and through their replies to other peers showed their ignorance. Even just a single example of their lack of knowing what a DBT really, truly is, and their (frankly) humorous way of applying it alone was surprising.

Many or most of the issues that were presented in that thread dealt with objective, real-world measurements. Most of the issues and concepts discussed I as Joe Shmoe had at least a basic grasp on already. Its all in that thread.

The other issues you discuss have no bearing on the point of my postings. I dont go soely by my ears when evaluating speakers. There are numerous other factors to take into consideration. A company having their engineers be embarrased on a forum is, unfortunately, one factor. But, there are others, of course.

It was an eye-opener to me, and has lead me to be very skeptical of ALL internet-direct audio companies.
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post #1161 of 1416
3/6/12 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

. . . Many or most of the issues that were presented in that thread dealt with objective, real-world measurements.
A company having their engineers be embarrased on a forum . . .

Bo123,
Unfortunately, I don't have the engineering and speaker design background to assest what measures are relevant or not. Furthermore, without that knowledge I can't comment if the engineers debating were embarassing themselves or each other.

What I would have really liked is that the engineers contributing to the discussion/thread would have listed the speaker brands and models they have personally designed in their entirety. That would have been much more revealing than all their arguments and theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bo130 View Post

. . . I dont go soely by my ears when evaluating speakers. There are numerous other factors to take into consideration. . . .

Bo123,
My main concern is that when I listen to my system it sounds real and faithful to the source. It meet my expectations provding me with an impeccable performance to my taste within my budget. What other factors are you considering ? Within your budget price, what factor would steer you away from the speaker which sounds best to your ears ?
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post #1162 of 1416
3/7/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjcays View Post

- its no-compromise attitude defending that if it can't be measured or
evaluated in a double-blind-test; it is worthless.


This is the big one for me. If I cannot hear a difference, then there is no difference to me. If I can, then I have to determine if the difference is worth the added price.
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post #1163 of 1416
3/7/12 at 8:38am
I think both Axiom and some of the readers of this forum need to understand what a true double blind test is.

It is fine to throw that term around, but they seem to rely on it way too much in their design and marketing.
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post #1164 of 1416
3/7/12 at 8:40am
Very interesting read on these types of double blind tests:
http://www.audioholics.com/buying-gu...ble-blind-test
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post #1165 of 1416
3/7/12 at 9:27am
Axiom takes great pride in their marketing. Only Axiom/Ian knows how to measure Axiom speakers, only Axiom/Ian knows how to run a proper blind test, right they automatically discredit everyone else and it sets Axiom as a no loss to any brand. Also take a bunch of cheap parts that don't equate to state of the art design, wrap psuedo science around them, and throw in some NRC and Floyd Toole jargon and the general public won't know any better.

I heard that Axiom was never even part of the NRC research, it was done by Floyd way before Axiom was ever at the NRC. Ian totally ignored everything Flody pointed out to them, cabinet bracing, comb filtering, but yet they love to market his name and the NRC, which actually they had very little to do with.
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post #1166 of 1416
3/7/12 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

Axiom takes great pride in their marketing. Only Axiom/Ian knows how to measure Axiom speakers, only Axiom/Ian knows how to run a proper blind test, right they automatically discredit everyone else and it sets Axiom as a no loss to any brand. Also take a bunch of cheap parts that don't equate to state of the art design, wrap psuedo science around them, and throw in some NRC and Floyd Toole jargon and the general public won't know any better.

I heard that Axiom was never even part of the NRC research, it was done by Floyd way before Axiom was ever at the NRC. Ian totally ignored everything Flody pointed out to them, cabinet bracing, comb filtering, but yet they love to market his name and the NRC, which actually they had very little to do with.

Just curious as to why you did a 180 degree regarding Axiom? In this thread (referenced above) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1337283, you were in love with Axiom back in June of last year. I'm genuinely interested in why you changed so abruptly? For the record, I have had the Axiom M60 v1 and VP150 cc for 6 1/2 years. I have liked them, but am now shopping for better. My M60's and VP150 are now for sale at a rock bottom price.

Regards...
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post #1167 of 1416
3/7/12 at 11:48am
I just grew tired of the VP150, tinny voices, female voices sounded strained. I had to jack up the volume and everyone still complained about how hard it was to understand the voices. I then started to order speakers for several companies to see if I could get something better and was amazed at just how much better the others were compared to the Axioms. So were around the same price but were just light years ahead in just about every way imaginable. Built quality, off axis, dynamics, a few of the others including Arx just had a much more fuller sound to them, not strained and frail like the Axioms sounded. I still like the forwardness in the Axioms its just some other brands are better to me
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post #1168 of 1416
3/7/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

. . . I heard that Axiom was never even part of the NRC research, it was done by Floyd way before Axiom was ever at the NRC. Ian totally ignored everything Flody pointed out to them, cabinet bracing, comb filtering, but yet they love to market his name and the NRC, which actually they had very little to do with.

Hi gtpsuper24,
You should take a little time to verify the veracity of what you hear or read before spreading it. It would help you at avoiding the risk of spreading wrong information on someone or firm. It is a well known and documented fact that the founders of four of the major Canadian speaker manufacturers (Paradigm, PSB, API and Axiom) played a major role at the NRC under Floyd Toole when he was conducting his study and research on audio speakers. Why not take the time to contact Mr. Toole and ask him his opinion regarding Ian Colquhoun, his contribution and his speaker design. Furthermore, Ian Colquhoun founder and owner of Axiom Audio never stoped his research efforts and contributions in the audio field. As you can see, Colquhoun Audio Laboratories (parent company of Axiom Audio) has even received a grant from the NRC to pursue its research efforts.



http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/disclo...eport&id=10533
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post #1169 of 1416
3/7/12 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx View Post

. . . I have had the Axiom M60 v1 and VP150 cc for 6 1/2 years. I have liked them, but am now shopping for better. . .

Hi 515ozx,
The current Axiom M60 now in its third version v3 (M60v3) is superior to the earlier version; smoother, more balanced and revealing. Axiom will be introducing a new model the M100 at the end of March. If you are not in a hurry to upgrade; the Axiom M100 might be worth waiting for. We will see soon how it will be received.
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post #1170 of 1416
3/7/12 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24 View Post

. . . I still like the forwardness in the Axioms its just some other brands are better to me

Hi gtpsuper24,
That is a fair comment and deserves respect. To each his preference . . . I could not agree more !
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