Official Axiom Owner's Thread - Page 14

Loaded questions there intowin, you should post it on axiom's forum as there are many more people there that could answer it.

Now in my opinion the m22 plus the EP600 is nearly as good as the M80 +ep600. As your room is medium to large I think the ability of the floor stander to really project the sound better would be better suited if you are into more of a party scene and looking to fill the room. If you are more interested in a close up listening experience then the M22+EP600 is the way to go. I feel this combo only leaves a little of the upper bass out of the equation, which sounds to be more analytical and detailed than the M80s, not that the M80s lack detail, just they have a slightly warmer sound.

For the surround question if you want a more immersive feel to your movies then the QS8 is the way to go and it does a very good job with multichannel music too. If music is your sole purpose then you could go with any of the in-wall or on wall speakers as they have very similar sonic qualities as their bookshelf cousins.

As I have not mentioned the EP350, you may think it is not to be considered, that would be wrong, it is a very nice sub for the money, but it doesn't have the frequency extension of the EP600 or even the EP500. I would stick with the EP600 if you can afford it, or drop to the EP500, the extra extension these 2 subs offer over the EP350 is worth the money. If you really want to stay to a lower end budget then by all means buy the EP350, it does an outstanding job as well.

When I ordered the M80's I thought they might last a week. I can now say I'm very impressed at this price point you can't go wrong! I had no idea 6 1/2s could produce such clean tight clean bass. Going for the full epic 80-500 5.1 system. And Buttler TDB Amps. I.m sure my neighbors won't be as impressed as I am!!

I have the 80/500 setup. It's *really* nice. You have to re-watch some movies (Blu-ray) like Iron Man, Kung Fu Panda etc. LFE will be fantastic!

Glad to hear you are enjoying the M80s, they are a fantastic speaker fo rthe money. You will love the full set up. Congratulations.

Yup, I've been with my M60's & VP150 now for about 3 weeks and yes I am replaying a lot of my favorites.They continue to impress and will be staying.I'm glad I decided to try them out as I know I saved myself a few bucks from the local retail offerings.

I'm very curious as to how the M3, VP150 compare to other brands such as Dynaudio Audience, Energy Reference Connoisseur, Epos ELS-3, Usher 520. Has anyone ever compare the Axiom M3 directly head on? I know they are on the neutral side and rather affordable. I plan to put these in a 13x15 room.

Glad to hear both of you are enjoying them. I've had my Axioms for about 2 years now and continue to be impressed at their value. If you also get the QS8/4s get ready to be impressed again.


Sorry I can't help you on your comparison but one suggestion if you can swing it. If your considering bookshelf speakers as mains then you might also want to use a third bookshelf as a center speaker if you can fit it with your screen. Reason is that having 3 identical speakers across the front is considered ideal and in the case of the M3s it would be a fraction of the price of a VP150.

Every one is going to have their own opinions as to which ones are better and as this is the Axiom thread you can guess which ones would come out on top in here . I personally am no a fan of the M3, too laid back for my tastes, the few Energy RC series speakers I have heard sounded more to my liking than the M3's but I like a forward sounding speaker. The VP150 is more forward sounding than the M3s so I like it paired with either my M22s or my M80s. Best way for you to know for sure would be to order up a set and have a listen, you have 30 days to return them and if you so desire during that 30 days you can send the M3s back and get M22s for just the price difference of the speakers no shiping charges for this change up, if you still don't like the Axiom's then you ship them back at Axiom's cost of shipping, M22's I believe are $30. Small price to pay to hear speakers in your own home(which is the second most important part of the whole audio scenario) for 30 days.

BTW, grunt's advice on a vertical center is very good as well if you have the space.

Does anyone have the rubber feet that come with the Axiom subs and floorstanding speakers (and maybe the other speakers too?) that they don't want. Axiom sells a set of four along with the spikes for $22. I need 8 of them and would rather not spend $44 to get them since I don't need the spikes.

I thought I'd check here to see if anyone has any laying around that they're not using and willing to sell for a nominal fee.

Thanks.

I'm the proud owner of Axiom M80s and love them. However, I've noticed over the 3 years I've had them that they sound way better if my ears are in line with the tweeters, which doesn't happen in my listening room unless I lean forward and lower my ears about 8". But they are big floor-standing models, so the speaker stands I could find online just didn't fill the bill. Since there's very little on this topic in this thread, thought I'd post here for those M80 owners who may have the same problem.

Recently I got two 6x8x16 concrete blocks ($1.12 each at Home Depot), covered them with black duct tape (Gorilla tape, $10) to camoflage them from my wife, and oriented them so that they raise the speakers 6". Not only is the sound quality way better in a normal seated position, but a bass resonance in the room seems to have been reduced as well. I'm very pleased with the result. Hope this might be useful to others out there.

Gerry

fsrenduro, I would simply call Axiom and order the rubber feet on their own, I would be surprised if the make you buy the entire kit, but if they won't sell separately, try a post on Axiom's forum, way more owner's on their own site.

Gerry, I accidently found that my M80s sounded better elevated when A/B comparing them with M22s. This actually put them a little above my ears but also above some furniture which is where I think I got the improvement.

My test stands were milk crates and then I also got a couple cinder blocks but I wrapped them in some black cloth from Wall Mart.

Cheers,
Dean

They do only sell the rubber feet with the spikes. I did find a place online that sells something very similar and it was $10 shipped for 8 of them.

i was wondering if any one is driving there m80 with a pioneer elite 92? I am thinking about buying the m80s but dont now if my receiver (pioneer) will go to a 4 ohm load. i also dont now how to get the receiver to go to a 4 ohm load, the instructions say it only goes to a 6 ohm.

thank you for any help you can give me.

I have a Denon 1909 (90 Wpc), a Paradigm Servo 15” sub (plus 2 10” KLH’s I already had), In-Wall WaveGuide Wg-150 surrounds (8” driver, 1” twtr). My front 3 speakers and two back surrounds are temporarily small 5 1/4” driver bookshelf spkrs.

I feel my 90 Wpc limits my size/efficiency choice. Also the fact that my HT is at one end of a great room measuring 31’ long x 23’ wide (≈ 700 sq’, 6,000 cu’). While initially thinking the Paradigm Studio 20’s or 40’s (bk shlf) spkrs. (+ CC-590) would be a good choice, even though the set was more than I originally was budgeting for. I did not take room size into consideration until after I was pointed to Axiom speakers. With Axioms, I could afford bigger speakers to push more air to better fill this big room. So if the Axiom M60 flr stndg speaker sounds near as good or better than say the Studio 40 bk shlv’s AND do a better job of filling a large space, I think that would be a better choice and cost ≈ $400 less than the Paradigm 40’s + CC-590. That $400 savings is pushing me towards upgrading my back 7.1 surrounds now with Axiom QS8’s (RR), rather than later. )

Things I'd like to know from current owners (or AV gurus ;o) with similar 90 wpc amps.
1) What model/version of Axioms you own?
2) What percentage of use is HT vs. Music? ( I use 95% HT)
3) What brand/model/ watts per channel amp are you driving your Axioms
4) Do you run a Sub? If so what are your cross over Hz for sub and other speakers?
5) What size is your HT/listening room? Note if ceiling is > than 8' or is vaulted.
6) Any other info you think relevant.

Things I'd like to know generally from knowledgeable AV folk.:
Please share your opinion on the direct radiating vs. reflection radiating spkrs: for 'surround' ... for 'back surrounds' (7.1),

Thanks to all on AVS Forms who have patiently helped me towards a better knowledge of AV. A big cheers to this community!

1. Own, but not in use, M80.
2. 99% HT
3. Was using Denon 3805 alone but added Outlaw M200s across the front. Later changed to a Monster 3250 3-channel amp.
4. Was using EP500 at 80Hz for all apeakers.
5. 13.5 x 23.5 x 8
6. I found the change to amps to be significant, especially at lower listening levels.

I changed to an open baffle speaker because I like the change in soundstage, not because of a dislike of the Axioms. I auditioned lots of speakers (none at home) but preferred the Axioms.

What amp and watts/ channel are you using with M80'S.
What center ch. do you use?
How does the fact that the M80's are 4 ohm vs. (I assume) all the rest of your speakers are 8 ohm. Does your amp's channel level adjustment correct for the 4 ohm channel's higher volume level?
I do not think my Denon 1909 (90 wpc) would be powerful enough to handle the the 80's, though I'd love to be able to use them! I am thinking my limit is the M60's + VP150 + QS8's.

This confirms the m80's were a pipe dream for my 90wpc. I knew I was dreamin'.

The 1909 does not have preamp outs for adding amps. WOuld have been a nice option, but I don't think I was willing to spend an extra $500to jump up to a 2809 w/115wpc and pre-outs. 3800 w/130wpc... very cool, but def. out of my budget in these financial times.

I am trying to see if others have found that 90wpc w/ M60's + VP150 + QS8's as 7.1's on the back wall (≈29' from from front speakers) will fill a 33x23 greatroom enough to envelop you at the listening position. Or, if you still would hear a separate front and rear sound stage? Limited by the 90 wpc amp, this spkr package I think will maximize the sound in this big room. It will be what it will be, but as an info-holic, I'd like to get opinions on how well this might 'envelope' the listening position. Even I am tiring of so much research and double guessing! ;o) I will likely call Axiom today anyway and place my order! ) ) Can anyone in Calif. chime in on # of days from order to arrival. ) ) )

I'll just throw some general advice out here... Forget about the watts. Your AVR is quite capable. The difference between 90 and 130 is, in reality, very little. It is the marketing folks (mostly for low end junk) that want you to focus on watts.

I have M60's, VP150, and 4 QS8's all powered by an Onkyo 705. My room is not as big as yours, but I can get 'ear splitting' volume from it. Prior to my Onkyo, I had an HK that put out 50 watts (or 65 with two channels driven). I could get 'ear splitting' volume from that as well.

Granted your room is large, but the M60's will be fine. Your bigger problem will be bass. You may want to consider 2 subs.

I use QS8's for side and rear surround. I really like it this way. In the past I used directs for the rears and I liked it that was as well. The only thing I didn't like was using directs for the sides. Made the sound to locatable.

IMO, 4 QS8's really creates an excellent rear sound field in my room. Your room may be different, so experimenting is the only way to know for sure.

29' from the front is a bit far for any back surround unless you are creating a movie theater. How far back is the primary seating?

Dewd,
Very interesting on your prefering reflection firing QS8's as surrounds vs. direct firing sides. Since my (direct firing) surrounds are in-wall, I was was feeling I was kind of stuck with them, not wanting to leave 11""x 8" holes! I was actually considering ordereing 4 QS8's to 'try' (without actually mounting) right over the in-wall sides. Then thought, nah, just by the two QS8's for the back and leave a side spkr decision for later. Hmmmn. Maybe I SHOULD get four right off the bat! ?
My sides are located directly to the side of the listening position and 3' above. Where are your sides located? With your sides, your list. pos. is in the 'null' of the radiating QS8s. And you find that much preferable to the direct radiating sides. I'd guess the DR sides made the sound location too defined? I wondered if the reflective radiating sides, with sound needing to reflect off several walls before reaching the listener, might not work that well.
Can you describe the difference you heard. Dewd, you probably just cost me another $540!

Are Axioms generally speaking a "bright" speaker ?

I have Infinitys now and dont like them because of how bright they are.
Im running a Onkyo SR604 reciever and thinking about entry level Axioms

MV3s and VP100.....Dont want to make same mistake as Infinitys

My bugget is $600

Thks

Dewd,
Forgot to address subs...
I have the subs way more than covered! I recently came across a used Paradigm Servo 15" for $350(unbelievably deep, smooth, powerful). I've had for years, two KLH 10" subs (I thought these were good until I took one to my local Paradigm dealer and compared it to a 'real' sub). I have the 15" 2' to the right of the rt. main. One 10" next to/left of left main. Second 10" is about 15' behind listening position, facing towards right side of room. This last sub has no other pos. choices (sandwiched between two cabinets).

If I buy 4 QS's, and even decided I did not think I needed 4, the shippng cost to return two small speakers is insignificant!

Here are the speaker distances from primary listening position:
- 2' from front wall: front of front speakers in line with front of Mits. 73" DLP
- 12' from front of front spkrs: Primary listening position
- 16' behind primary listening position: back 7.1 speakers
- 12' directly left & right of primary listening position (3' up): side surrounds.

Just for reference, behind the list. pos. to the left is the kitchen. behind to the right is the dinning area. No walls except a 4' counter down the center (towards the front) extending ≈ 13' from back wall. The listening seats are two 7' couches angled slightly. So main list pos. is 2' right of sound field center, while 2nd list. pos. is 2' left of center.

You make a point (backs 29' away from fronts) is a large distance to ask back 7.1 to fill up to. I have no ability to move list. pos. further back. Will I just need to accept that the QS8 backs will not be able to reach the main listening area enough for that 'enveloping feeling? If so, that is how it will be. I am not forseeing my getting a much more powerful amp and larger (big buck!) reflective radiating backs! As much as I like the idea of the the QS8 reflectives for backs, would I have a better chance of getting the backs to envelope the list. pos. with direct firing backs? If the M22's as backs would not suffer from being mounted on their sides, The wife would be OK with their size IF they gave us a significantly better rear sound fields than the QS8's from way back there! The fact they are a bit less expensive than QS*'s would be a bonus.

Besides mounting M22's on their sides (horiz, vs. vert.) as 7.1 backs, what if any is the downside of mounting them against the wall, ≈ 6" from ceiling? I always read fronts should be mounted away from the wall behind and the wall to it's side (corner of room). Would similar constraints apply to 7.1 backs too?

OK, I talked to the Axiom folks about my particular room and set up. He said the M60's and VP150 would work well with the Denon 1909 90 wpc amp. He recommended the QS8's for side surrounds. For the backs, where my back wall is a loooong 16' behind the main listening position, he agreed direct firing book shelf speakers would project and fill the large space to blend with the reflective firing QS8's better than having QS8's way back there.

He confirmed that I should stay with 5 1/4" drivers in the rear to be a timbre match with the dual 5 1/4's in the QS8's. What surprised me, was he strongly recommended the M2 over the M22! He said the M22 would work well to, but that in this situation, the M2' were more than adequate.

So I'm looking to place an order tomorrow for the M60 floorstanding fronts, VP150 center, QS8 side surrounds and the M2's as the back 7.1 speakers.

Actually the older Bic America V52's (I have for 7.1 backs now) are only slightly smaller than the M2's and also have 5 1/4" drvrs, but only a 1/2" tweeters. I will do an A/B stereo test on the M2's vs. the Bic V2's. If there is not a big difference, I'll send the M2's back. The $30 return shipping will be a worthwhile 'testing fee' for me. ;o) I am thinking it may sound better enough to keep. Plus having the rears in Beech with gold covers to match the QS8's would be nice to have them blend in with our wall color.

Good deal. I think you will enjoy them.

One of the reasons I did not like the DRs for side surrounds was my room is narrow (only 12'). The QS8's allow me to mount them a little higher and not quite in line with my seating (my room doesn't allow much else). They are very forgiving.

Let us know how you like the new speakers. And post on the Axiom boards if you haven't already. We like pictures

I think you might be OK as the M3 is the least forward of the Axiom line, I would suggest trying to locate someone off of Axiom's web Site for an audition to see if you can hear the M3s before purchasing, otherwise it is only about $20 for return shipping of the M3s, hold off on the VP100 just in case you don't like the M3s. If you do, then try the 100 although it is brighter than the M3, but great for vocals as a center. If you have the room I would run 3 M3s across the front, even better timbre match and great dispersion.

I have to say that I was told that many times. I was hoping to audition M80's locally and had contacted someone from the axiom forum. That someone did initially get back to me and then never returned any further emails.

I decided to take the chance and order them anyway. I am presently trying to tame these M80's down.

All I can say is that you should take the advice of everyone who says to listen BEFORE buying!

"the extra extension these 2 subs offer over the EP350 is worth the money."

I need to go back looking for the people who told me that the EP-500 was overpriced and that there were many other subs that were better for the money. And that's NOT saying the the EP-500 is not a good sub.