or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › Tier thread for audio
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Tier thread for audio - Page 5  

post #121 of 2680
9 out of 67 are below tier 1

I'm just saying that i think we need to spread it out a little more

I know everyone is going to say that sounds great on my system
post #122 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewing1043 View Post

9 out of 67 are below tier 1

I'm just saying that i think we need to spread it out a little more

I know everyone is going to say that sounds great on my system

You know, when I posted my reply, I thought I was on the tier thread for video. I left my post anyway, though. I'm new to this thread, but is it possible that all of the titles in tier 0 and 1 deserve to be there? I don't think they should be graded on a bell curve - like students - where only x% are allowed to be graded "A" and an equal number need to be failed. I dunno what's right, but outstanding surround audio is outstanding surround audio.
post #123 of 2680
The list by nature is subjective.

The number of categories and the distribution across them are arbitrary and having six tiers is possibly too many. It doesn't have to be a normal distribution: there are skewed distributions in statistics. But having empty tiers doesn't serve any useful purpose.

Can we honestly distinguish between six levels of audio quality? Magazine and online review ratings commonly have five tiers or stars so five is probably the best choice.

It's not surprising that titles with uncompressed and advanced codecs tend to occupy the top tiers and BD do have many such titles.

I think a better way forward would possibly be to reduce the number of tiers and to redistribute existing entries.
post #124 of 2680
Well this is the audio thread, and so far most of the handful of titles I own are just excellent audio wise. Those who "knows" me from other boards know that I don't easily give high remarks on sound especially on DVD. I also have about 60 HD dVD titles so I'm not new to the goods of lossless sound. But I'm must say I'm very impressed with BD's offerings. Of course movies like "Waiting" is just not something that have dynamite soundtrack regardless of format, but on titles that sound is important BD does deliver.


My second Tier2 belongs to "Bram Stoker's Dracula.[LPCM] After the controversy of this release I had very low expectation, but while it isn't a dynamo track it was very much like the DTS track on the SB SD DVD. The surround coverage was expansive unlike some reviews did touted it, but my main issue was that it sounded "dated". This could have been intentional however, knowing Coppola's tendency to further a POV or style, which this movie had plenty of. Still this was enjoyable track.
post #125 of 2680
I like to nominate Spiderman 3 pcm tier1
Ratouttle pcm tier1
FF2 dts hd tier1

I would love to hear Saving Private Ryan in pcm.
post #126 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

Then could you please insist on people giving precise track information (in particular, dts-HD MA or dts-HD MA (core)) when they nominate a title and make it a pre-requisite for inclusion in your list. Thanks.

i have, and some ppl just overlook it.
post #127 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

OK

AC/DC: Live At Donnington(LPCM)--- Tier2 Weak bass, guitar hard mixed to the right channel, and overall very harsh. But then again it's Hard Rock.

Kingdom OF Heaven Dir Cut (DTS HD MA) Tier 0 reference quality all around

The Descent (LPCM) Tier 0 Very atmoshpheric and dynamic when called for, excellen balance.

Tears Of The Sun (LPCM) Tier1 A bit of a mixed bag with bass and jungle noise, being less then consistent. The last 30 mins will make thing up.

Immortal Beloved (LPCM) A bit of a let down for me as being a big fan of the movie and the music of Beethoven. The music sounds a little dull to me, though not terrible or anything I was just hoping a little better after I owned this on LD and DVD both which sounded very good. A good balance between dialog effects and music Tier1


Troy Director's Cut (LPCM) Tier 1 lowend. Just not very exciting and a little shy on bass. The HD DVD's True HD has more bass and life to it.

Crank [LPCM] Tier 0 Fun Fun Fun, very agressive, very dynamic and very clean. reference sound.

Black Hawk Down (LPCM) Tier 0 The quintesential war movie sound, a two hour aural assault!


Fifth Element [Dolby THD] Tier 0 Finally I could see this and hear it like it was meant to be. I own the SB SD DVD and while the picture was remarkable for a DVD the sound was just not what I would call reference. All that change with the BD version.

Pirates Of The Caribbean AWE (LPCM) Tier1 Inconsisten bass makes this just shy of tier 0 IMO Everything else was examplary.


Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (LPCM}--- Tier 0 Another of favorite of mine. A clear step up from the already excellent DVD


Casino Royale (LPCM) Tier 0 What can be said what hasn't been said yet?


The Patriot Extented Cut (LPCM) Tier 1 It sounded excellent but I just can't recall a single very exiting aural momment to give it Tier 0

Live Free or Die Hard (DTS HD MA) Tier 0 Wow what a ride, just like Crank, it's a very exiting track, great bass as well.

Spider Man 1.2.3 (Dolby THD) Tier 0 All three movies are top notch when it comes to sound, and part 1 and 2 are a clear step up from the SB version I own too.


That's it for now.

i will probably at some point have to rearrange all the titles in each tier given that while many movies are given tier 0 and 1 by different ppl, there are titles that everyone agrees are tier0, the quintencential(sp?) tier 0 titles should be at top.

just got back from CES after 5 days of no internet. be patient with me everyone.
post #128 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

i will probably at some point have to rearrange all the titles in each tier given that while many movies are given tier 0 and 1 by different ppl, there are titles that everyone agrees are tier0, the quintencential(sp?) tier 0 titles should be at top.

just got back from CES after 5 days of no internet. be patient with me everyone.

Did you have fun at CES?
post #129 of 2680
Thoughts on audio grading.

1. good (low and loud) LFE alone does not make a good overall sound track.

2. loud and aggressive surround sound alone does not a good overall sound track.


Examples:

"Live Free Die Hard" is a very aggressive soundtrack with lots of side/rear surround use.

However, I would say that much of the opportunities in LFDH are wasted. Many times it is simply loud, but not an imaginative or immersive use of surround sound. When the bullets were flying around in the apartment scene, I expected much more ping ponging of the bullets sound around all 6 speakers (fronts, sides and rears) -- however, it was unimaginatively limited to usually one side or another.

Also, with all the helicopter use, I expected much more fly-over sounds (front to back or back to front) -- but that was limited to the scene where Bruce Willis first took off when he was flying the helicopter. Also, at no time did you get the full involvement of all speakers in the helicopter blade rotation -- like in Black Hawk Down. When an explosion occurred, it was rare that you heard a rain of debris in the back (as the explosion died down). Usually it was just one big loud noise in all speakers and little movement from front to back as the explosion peaked.

While it is not a bad track, I think most people were just excited that it was loud, had some nice LFE hits (the tunnel scene and the natural gas scene) and that it was DTS Master Audio. Plenty of wasted opportunites though, for truly spectacular and involving surround sound.

I would put LFDH below the very top tier, tier 1 at best.

On the other hand, Ratatouille (uncompressed PCM), while not overly loud or aggressive, is very imaginative and involving. Just listen to the rain in the very beginning and you can tell the quality is there and that this is a top notch sound track. When the rat is running around the kitchen trying to hide, listen how effects move discretely from one speaker to the other. How you feel like you are in the middle of the kitchen itself.

Also, on Spiderman 3, the use of surround sound is very involving and imaginative (Dolby True HD). The scene at the end with spiderman clanging all the poles -- the sound goes around in a circle as spiderman does. Also, the scene with the sandman in the train tunnel should be held up as an example of the power and possibilities of surround sound. The trains whoosing by on one side of the room or another, the clanging bells in the rear, the water whoosing past. That is great surround sound.

Don't be fooled by loud explosions or just heavy LFE hits.
post #130 of 2680
Good explanation, I completely agree
post #131 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

On the other hand, Ratatouille (uncompressed PCM), while not overly loud or aggressive, is very imaginative and involving. Just listen to the rain in the very beginning and you can tell the quality is there and that this is a top notch sound track. When the rat is running around the kitchen trying to hide, listen how effects move discretely from one speaker to the other. How you feel like you are in the middle of the kitchen itself.

Also, on Spiderman 3, the use of surround sound is very involving and imaginative (Dolby True HD). The scene at the end with spiderman clanging all the poles -- the sound goes around in a circle as spiderman does. Also, the scene with the sandman in the train tunnel should be held up as an example of the power and possibilities of surround sound. The trains whoosing by on one side of the room or another, the clanging bells in the rear, the water whoosing past. That is great surround sound.

Don't be fooled by loud explosions or just heavy LFE hits.

Completely agree here. These were two of the best sounding titles I watched last year.

Brandon
post #132 of 2680
totally agree caesar1, to what degree is the soundtrack using those surround side & surround rear speakers which is after all the point of having a 7.1 setup
post #133 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

You know, when I posted my reply, I thought I was on the tier thread for video. I left my post anyway, though. I'm new to this thread, but is it possible that all of the titles in tier 0 and 1 deserve to be there? I don't think they should be graded on a bell curve - like students - where only x% are allowed to be graded "A" and an equal number need to be failed. I dunno what's right, but outstanding surround audio is outstanding surround audio.

I think one thing that this illustrates is that while the video upgrade to BDs over DVDs is big, the audio upgrade may be even bigger (given the right equipment).

With such huge improvements in audio, it'll be a while before the law of averages kicks in and people can more easily differentiate between what the new standard of a stellar mix is compared to the new average.

Brandon
post #134 of 2680
Watched Spiderman 3 last night and I would have to say there were a few scenes that I had to rewind to listen to again, they put a big smile on my face:

1. When Harry is chasing Spiderman at the beginning in between the 2 buildings.
2. When Sandman is created in that machine, I have a 7.1 setup and it sounded like I was RIGHT in the middle of the machine
3. The final battle of course
4. When Spiderman has the sembient in the middle of the metal poles

There were other nice scenes as well but these stood out for me.

I agree this movie belongs in tier 0.

I listened to the True-HD track my PS3 sending it out as PCM.
post #135 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

Watched Spiderman 3 last night and I would have to say there were a few scenes that I had to rewind to listen to again, they put a big smile on my face:

1. When Harry is chasing Spiderman at the beginning in between the 2 buildings.

That's the night scene, right? That scene is one of the better demo materials because of the sound (especially when Harry is throwing that contraption at Spidey) and because the video on night shots was exceptional in the movie.

Brandon
post #136 of 2680
Seems everyone wants to grade higher tier discs. I have now watched all three Ocean's and would rate them as tier 4 or maybe 5. While the dialog is always presented correctly they have a somewhat lifeless soundtrack which is rather flat sounding with no punch and very little surround action. All 3 seem to have about the same sound characteristics (as well as video) too.
post #137 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

That's the night scene, right? That scene is one of the better demo materials because of the sound (especially when Harry is throwing that contraption at Spidey) and because the video on night shots was exceptional in the movie.

Brandon

Yes, it was in the first few minutes of the movie, just before Harry went to the hospital. As soon as I heard it I had to rewind it and listen again.

What is so good about it is its use of the surrounds (for me all 4 of them) so as soon as Harry went between the buildings it sounded like I was right there with him.
post #138 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

Thoughts on audio grading.

1. good (low and loud) LFE alone does not make a good overall sound track.

2. loud and aggressive surround sound alone does not a good overall sound track.


Examples:

"Live Free Die Hard" is a very aggressive soundtrack with lots of side/rear surround use.

However, I would say that much of the opportunities in LFDH are wasted. Many times it is simply loud, but not an imaginative or immersive use of surround sound. When the bullets were flying around in the apartment scene, I expected much more ping ponging of the bullets sound around all 6 speakers (fronts, sides and rears) -- however, it was unimaginatively limited to usually one side or another.

Also, with all the helicopter use, I expected much more fly-over sounds (front to back or back to front) -- but that was limited to the scene where Bruce Willis first took off when he was flying the helicopter. Also, at no time did you get the full involvement of all speakers in the helicopter blade rotation -- like in Black Hawk Down. When an explosion occurred, it was rare that you heard a rain of debris in the back (as the explosion died down). Usually it was just one big loud noise in all speakers and little movement from front to back as the explosion peaked.

While it is not a bad track, I think most people were just excited that it was loud, had some nice LFE hits (the tunnel scene and the natural gas scene) and that it was DTS Master Audio. Plenty of wasted opportunites though, for truly spectacular and involving surround sound.

I would put LFDH below the very top tier, tier 1 at best.

On the other hand, Ratatouille (uncompressed PCM), while not overly loud or aggressive, is very imaginative and involving. Just listen to the rain in the very beginning and you can tell the quality is there and that this is a top notch sound track. When the rat is running around the kitchen trying to hide, listen how effects move discretely from one speaker to the other. How you feel like you are in the middle of the kitchen itself.

Also, on Spiderman 3, the use of surround sound is very involving and imaginative (Dolby True HD). The scene at the end with spiderman clanging all the poles -- the sound goes around in a circle as spiderman does. Also, the scene with the sandman in the train tunnel should be held up as an example of the power and possibilities of surround sound. The trains whoosing by on one side of the room or another, the clanging bells in the rear, the water whoosing past. That is great surround sound.

Don't be fooled by loud explosions or just heavy LFE hits.

While I agrre generally that bassy or aggressive surround may not make a good soundtrack, [Underworld comes into mind], one's "imaginative" is another's "boring".


All the BD's I've rated so far was based on among these qualifiers:

Dialog intelibability,
music recording fidelity
spatilal clarity
good use of surround when needed.
bass extension [when needed]
balance between dilalog. music and effects
post #139 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

While I agrre generally that bassy or aggressive surround may not make a good soundtrack, [Underworld comes into mind], one's "imaginative" is another's "boring".


All the BD's I've rated so far was based on among these qualifiers:

Dialog intelibability,
music recording fidelity
spatilal clarity
good use of surround when needed.
bass extension [when needed]
balance between dilalog. music and effects


Exactly, while I only watched Underworld in DVD a long time ago (not blu-ray) -- that was definitely a loud track -- but it had nothing to it other than being loud.

As far as Die Hard (LIve Free), I think it lacked what you refer to "good use of surround sound when needed". I think that is sort of equivalent to my not being imaginative.

Just having surround sound present isn't necessarily enough. It has to be a good use of that surround sound.
post #140 of 2680
Personally I think it was appropriate for the film, but my rating of Die Hard 4 was also based on the other points I listed. This track simply excelled in many ways for me. YMMV
post #141 of 2680
Shakira: oral fixation Tier 0 PCM 5.1..
post #142 of 2680
Can you explain why?
post #143 of 2680
Hart's War [DTS-HD MA] Tier 2[top] Rating's mostly for sound design. While this was mostly a "talkie" movie, it took place mostly in wooden barracks that could have fleshed out by the sound bit better, if nothing else to better convey the small place is occupied by too many people.Help the viewer believe he's there. The few "action" scenes were rendered without flaws, and plenty of punch, with excellent bass extension.
post #144 of 2680
Looks like there may be a new reference audio disc soon:

From HDD review of War

Quote:


The Audio: Rating the Sound


Say what you will about the movie and the picture quality, the audio package on this release is outstanding. Lionsgate has delivered a thundering PCM 7.1 surround track that literally shook my home theater. Dynamics kick things into overdrive with powerful LFE pulses that compliment the track's crystal clear, high-end fidelity. Dialogue is clean and well-prioritized across the front speakers, while the surrounds offer a litany of ambient support that crafts an immersive soundfield. Even the film's music is a compelling part of the experience, with the soundtrack's rap songs integrated into the soundfield to completely envelop the listener.

If you have a 7.1 system, you're in for a real treat. I flinched three separate times in the opening warehouse battle alone, thinking that something was falling behind my head. Pans aren't transparent, they're invisible -- I could never lock on a specific speaker as the source, and could hear small echoes from every point in the soundfield. While I've enjoyed 7.1 tracks before, I can't recall one that struck me as being this convincing.

The film’s PCM mix is a reference quality audio track in every way.

Audio Formats
English PCM 7.1 Surround (48kHz/24-bit/6.9Mbps)
English Dolby Digital EX 5.1 Surround


Brandon
post #145 of 2680
It is is my Netflix que and I have a 7.1 system, I can't wait
post #146 of 2680
Glad to find this!

I just got a BD30 and have it connected via coax to my proc. The player is set to bitstream. The proc does not have the new HD audio. However, it is a great Proc and does a great job on its DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1, but I have a question...

I love the way it sounds on DTS 5.1 but very few SD disks have that. So, I was wondering...do all BR disks have an uncompressed DTS track? If so, I believe that 5.1 compressed DTS is included.
post #147 of 2680
No, mostly Fox use DTS HD MA [which has the lossy core] Sony use mostly LPCM though they say they will use Dolby THD more and more in the future. Disney also use LPCM for the most part, and Warner use Dolby lossy and lossless.
post #148 of 2680
War: Tier 0. Watched yesterday no one home. My new Demo disc for sound. Very clean sound. Mits 73833 diamond- onkyo 805- 7.1 speakers and 2 subs.
post #149 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

No, mostly Fox use DTS HD MA [which has the lossy core] Sony use mostly LPCM though they say they will use Dolby THD more and more in the future. Disney also use LPCM for the most part, and Warner use Dolby lossy and lossless.

Well, I wanted DTS. I will have to just use the DD 5.1..I own a few DTS music SD DVD's and they did sound a little better on the new BR player. Maybe I was wishing for it to be better.
post #150 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by stangflyer View Post

War: Tier 0. Watched yesterday no one home. My new Demo disc for sound. Very clean sound. Mits 73833 diamond- onkyo 805- 7.1 speakers and 2 subs.

I just watched War myself. Definitely tier 0 to me.

Extremely aggressive mix with wonderful use of all 4 surround channels. Thundering bass. Crystal clear dialog. And outstanding dynamic range.

Denon 2307 w/Aragon 2002 Amp, B&W 605 7.1 speakers, Velodyne HGS-15x sub.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Software
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › Tier thread for audio