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Tier thread for audio - Page 8  

post #211 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

There is only a 7.1 track on that, but since I only have 5.1 hooked up my preamp was "folding" the back surrounds into the sides.
My set up follows an ITU speaker placement model, with monopoles all around.With the imaging afforded by this set up, I don't really need 2 extra speakers, nor would have influenced my opinion of this track. I used to have a 7.1 set up, and I really don't miss it.

comforting to hear as i'm on a 5.1 setup myself, the way the living room is setup putting the 2 extra speakers on the ceiling would look really bad.
post #212 of 2680
I'm not saying it's useless not at all, and one day I'm sure will return to 7.1, but if you know how to set up 5 speakers "correctly" and calibrate it accuratelly, it would surprise many just how many "phantom speakers" are there when I play a demo scene. Of course the quality of the speakers and acoustics also play a big role here as well.
post #213 of 2680
Hey folks,

I'm looking at the movie titles on the first page. Beside each movie titles, it says DTS MA, LPCM and so on. My receiver is a Yamaha RXV1400 but doesn't have HDMI. It does have optical inputs as well as analog inputs.

If I want to use DTS MA, how will I output it in this kind of situation?

Thanks.
post #214 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Hey folks,

I'm looking at the movie titles on the first page. Beside each movie titles, it says DTS MA, LPCM and so on. My receiver is a Yamaha RXV1400 but doesn't have HDMI. It does have optical inputs as well as analog inputs.

If I want to use DTS MA, how will I output it in this kind of situation?

Thanks.

The answer will depend on your player. If your player internally decodes DTS-HD MA, then via the player's 5.1 (or 7.1) analog outputs would do it. If your player does not decode DTS-HD MA, then there is no way.
post #215 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The answer will depend on your player. If your player internally decodes DTS-HD MA, then via the player's 5.1 (or 7.1) analog outputs would do it. If your player does not decode DTS-HD MA, then there is no way.

That helps a lot.

Is DTS MA really noticeable as compared to the regular DTS I've heard?

Thanks again.
post #216 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

That helps a lot.

Is DTS MA really noticeable as compared to the regular DTS I've heard?

Thanks again.

depends on the title and your system i think. i've heard some say they hear huge diff while there are others that say they dont hear any differences. i think ppl did unanimously say Die Hard 4's DTS-MA lossless sounded clearly better than the already stellar lossy DTS.
post #217 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

That helps a lot.

Is DTS MA really noticeable as compared to the regular DTS I've heard?

IMO, yes. It is the difference between a CD and an SACD/DVD-A.
post #218 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

Just watched Hellboy and it has one of the best soundtracks I have ever heard - Without question Tier 0. Cars, on the other hand, is really nothing special - Tier 1. I am suprised by the raves its getting. I actually think the sound is a little too hot in places. the mix just seems overcooked.


Agreed on Hellboy. I rented this and after watching/listening bought it mainly for the excelent sound. I think the first ~15 minutes of the movie are reference sound and picture, and a great all around HT demo piece.

Just watched 3:10 to Yuma and I thought the 7.1 was phenom. The 2 back speakers made a big dif in this movie IMO and was extremely well done. The only thing I thought could have been a bit better was the bass and LFE. Thought there were some missed oportunities, and a few spots where it could of had a bit more "oomph" so to speak. The train part was the highlight in this area which did not dissapoint. Small complaint in an otherwise amazing 7.1 track.
post #219 of 2680
wanted to add my two cents
resident evil extinction was tier 0 to me sounded awesome I belive it was truehd

Underworld evolution was pretty pathetic I think it was only dolby digital 600 kbps or so tier 3-4 ish for something that could of really rocked.
post #220 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by my65ffrcobra View Post

wanted to add my two cents
resident evil extinction was tier 0 to me sounded awesome I belive it was truehd

Underworld evolution was pretty pathetic I think it was only dolby digital 600 kbps or so tier 3-4 ish for something that could of really rocked.

I watched it last night. I don't think it was TrueHD though. No LPCM either, which is very disappointing coming from Sony.

It still sounded pretty darn good though.
post #221 of 2680
I think hardware questions in the future should be posted in the corresponding forums so this thread can remain as what it is.

Also I do find some of the opinions of certain titles are "interesting", since they're partially "judged" based on the codec or the number of channels used. That to me just missing the point of this whole thread.
post #222 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I watched it last night. I don't think it was TrueHD though. No LPCM either, which is very disappointing coming from Sony.

It still sounded pretty darn good though.

Resident Evil is True HD, but some players are having some issue to access that track on that disc. Both Panasonic and Denon are aware of this, I don't know what other brands are affected though. Sony did express that they are phasing out PCM as they sole lossless[uncompressed] track.
post #223 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

I do find some of the opinions of certain titles are "interesting", since they're partially "judged" based on the codec or the number of channels used. That to me just missing the point of this whole thread.

YOU probably already know this, but the PQ tier thread requires that ranking recommendations include the display and viewing distance for, well, the obvious reasons. For titles that have a 6.1 or 7.1 audio track, I question how someone with a 5.1 system can come to a fully informed opinion. Ditto for a title with a lossless track, but only DD was listened to because of gear limitations.

Just my $.02.

edit: I thought I'd better add that this is not meant to knock anyone's system or to say that their opinion isn't important.
post #224 of 2680
Oh yeah I don't see Spiderman 1,2 on the list. I did rate them both to Tier0 a few pages back, but after revisiting both I would rate Spiderman 1 to Tier 1 and Spiderman2 to Tier 0. Both are True HD. Thanks.
post #225 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

YOU probably already know this, but the PQ tier thread requires that ranking recommendations include the display and viewing distance for, well, the obvious reasons. For titles that have a 6.1 or 7.1 audio track, I question how someone with a 5.1 system can come to a fully informed opinion. Ditto for a title with a lossless track, but only DD was listened to because of gear limitations.

Just my $.02.

edit: I thought I'd better add that this is not meant to knock anyone's system or to say that their opinion isn't important.

Well this rather simple to answer. There is no theatrical 7.1 formats that use more then 2[discrete] ch for surround channels,so there was no discrete back channels to begin with, nor was any extra sound recorded that wasn't there on the original 5.1 mix. These pseudo 7.1 home releases are nothing more then a post processing and can be folded back into 5.1 if it carried via HDMI.
So yes I can come to a fully informed opinion thanks for asking.


Also regarding the formats, I agree that uncompressed/lossless will sound better the lossy codecs, but I think people should concentrate on the soundtrack and not what format being displayed on the receiver, and make a judgement based on what they hear. Also this thread is far more subjective and more "relaxed" then the PQ threads I checked out on both HDM boards. I don't wan't that pissing contest that goes on there to come here. and that's just my 02cents.
post #226 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Oh yeah I don't see Spiderman 1,2 on the list. I did rate them both to Tier0 a few pages back, but after revisiting both I would rate Spiderman 1 to Tier 1 and Spiderman2 to Tier 0. Both are True HD. Thanks.

added
post #227 of 2680
When ordering a BR disc online is there any websites that list the audio codecs available on that disc? I've seen some really good deals on older movie new BR releases. But, I'd rather have the uncompressed audio. Especially if I have it on dvd already.
post #228 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Well this rather simple to answer. There is no theatrical 7.1 formats that use more then 2[discrete] ch for surround channels,so there was no discrete back channels to begin with, nor was any extra sound recorded that wasn't there on the original 5.1 mix. These pseudo 7.1 home releases are nothing more then a post processing and can be folded back into 5.1 if it carried via HDMI.
So yes I can come to a fully informed opinion thanks for asking.

By "theatrical", do you mean "in the theater/cinema?" There are titles with 6.1 DTS-HD (and sometimes MA); are they pseudo, too?

Quote:
Also regarding the formats, I agree that uncompressed/lossless will sound better the lossy codecs, but I think people should concentrate on the soundtrack and not what format being displayed on the receiver, and make a judgement based on what they hear. Also this thread is far more subjective and more "relaxed" then the PQ threads I checked out on both HDM boards. I don't wan't that pissing contest that goes on there to come here. and that's just my 02cents.

I hear ya!
post #229 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

By "theatrical", do you mean "in the theater/cinema?" There are titles with 6.1 DTS-HD (and sometimes MA); are they pseudo, too?

Yes, and yes. There is no DTS HD in the cinema, nor DTS ES Discrete. There are matried EX/ES presentations, but nothing discrete. The delivery format is meaningless anyway as theaters still stuck with lossy codecs with a few exception of some DLP presentations, which use the original soundtrack format , PCM.

Generally speaking we get far better sound on BD at home then most theaters with their lossy codecs and run of the mill speakers and subs.
post #230 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Yes, and yes. There is no DTS HD in the cinema, nor DTS ES Discrete. There are matried EX/ES presentations, but nothing discrete. The delivery format is meaningless anyway as theaters still stuck with lossy codecs with a few exception of some DLP presentations, which use the original soundtrack format , PCM.

Generally speaking we get far better sound on BD at home then most theaters with their lossy codecs and run of the mill speakers and subs.

10-4 on your last point. My home theater surpassed what I experience in the cineplex long time ago. Plus, many movies are, for several reasons, remixed for home theater. But I think that sort of goes to my original point that a 6.1 (or 7.1) system will reveal more of the director's intent in a 6.1 mix than a 5.1 system.

Jeff
post #231 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDog151 View Post

When ordering a BR disc online is there any websites that list the audio codecs available on that disc? I've seen some really good deals on older movie new BR releases. But, I'd rather have the uncompressed audio. Especially if I have it on dvd already.

best way to find specs on discs is to look up the titles you're interested in at hidefdigest's reviews. they pretty much have every disc available on review and list the specs on the lefthand side. while not 100% accurate, i dont think they'd list lossless audio when it's not available on disc. mostly the errors are listing wrong bit depth for the audio format.
post #232 of 2680
Quote:


Plus, many movies are, for several reasons, remixed for home theater.

Almost all are because of the different size of the venues. Some are remixed for marketing reasons like DTS ES Discrete and the likes home releases.

Quote:


But I think that sort of goes to my original point that a 6.1 (or 7.1) system will reveal more of the director's intent in a 6.1 mix than a 5.1 system.

The original intent was realised on the original mix that was released to the theaters. Unless a director want's a specificic mix to be heard by HT users and was remixed specifically to his wishes [Lord Of The Rings trilogy], your theory hold very little truth.

Let's look at this from a practical POV. All those BD, that are 6,7/1 releases are from Lionsgate (which is not even a full fledged studio but rather a distributor company). That should alone give you an idea that this is a marketing strategy not a genuine new mix to further expose the director's intent.
post #233 of 2680
Apocalypto (LPCM) Tier 0
I think since this is already in Tier 0 maybe now it can be in bold letters unless someone objects to it?
A fantastic track there is nothing to complain here wasn't this nominated for an Oscar for sound? If it wasn't it should have been. Also check out the commentary track, it's very light hearted but with some good info about making the movie.
post #234 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

The original intent was realised on the original mix that was released to the theaters. Unless a director want's a specificic mix to be heard by HT users and was remixed specifically to his wishes [Lord Of The Rings trilogy], your theory hold very little truth.

Let's look at this from a practical POV. All those BD, that are 6,7/1 releases are from Lionsgate (which is not even a full fledged studio but rather a distributor company). That should alone give you an idea that this is a marketing strategy not a genuine new mix to further expose the director's intent.

Couldn't agree more

I did 2 home theater mixes last week... the director on one was completely absent, on the other, the director came and reviewed on reel.

As I've spoken about in other threads, the point of a well executed HT mix is to compensate for the differences in playback systems, eq curves, levels and other factors when playing a theatrical mix in the home environment.

I've taken a lot of flack over the years for implying that this is a necessary part of the process. There are those around here that feel it is a travesty and demand they get the original track.

I've tried to explain that you only make changes that compensate for the differences is calibrated SPL (on the dub stage, we SPL LCR at 85db each, LR and RR at 82db each, and the sub at 89-91db, and for the home mixes, we set the nearfields at 80db for LCR LR RR and 85 for the sub.) When you do this, you are going to lose low level ambiences, foley and dialog, and those need to be raised a hair. Also, you want to be aware of what bass management will do to a track, as we don't have that issue in the theatrical environment due to standardization.

I cannot speak for every other mixer, but I make as little changes as possible when doing these... it's my job to keep the integrity of the track, and present it as a closely as possible as the director intended.

PS.. New Line is also doing 7.1, and Lionsgate is a studio with in house production and distribution, just like New Line
post #235 of 2680
Marc, do you do the home theater mixes in the same studio that you do the movie mixes in, or someplace else (closer to a HT environment)?
post #236 of 2680
Quote:


PS.. New Line is also doing 7.1, and Lionsgate is a studio with in house production and distribution, just like New Line

Yes, I know about New Line doing 7.1 for home releases, but I didn't know Lionsgate had any inhouse facilities, thanks for that info.
post #237 of 2680
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Couldn't agree more

I did 2 home theater mixes last week... the director on one was completely absent, on the other, the director came and reviewed on reel.

As I've spoken about in other threads, the point of a well executed HT mix is to compensate for the differences in playback systems, eq curves, levels and other factors when playing a theatrical mix in the home environment.

I've taken a lot of flack over the years for implying that this is a necessary part of the process. There are those around here that feel it is a travesty and demand they get the original track.

I've tried to explain that you only make changes that compensate for the differences is calibrated SPL (on the dub stage, we SPL LCR at 85db each, LR and RR at 82db each, and the sub at 89-91db, and for the home mixes, we set the nearfields at 80db for LCR LR RR and 85 for the sub.) When you do this, you are going to lose low level ambiences, foley and dialog, and those need to be raised a hair. Also, you want to be aware of what bass management will do to a track, as we don't have that issue in the theatrical environment due to standardization.

I cannot speak for every other mixer, but I make as little changes as possible when doing these... it's my job to keep the integrity of the track, and present it as a closely as possible as the director intended.

PS.. New Line is also doing 7.1, and Lionsgate is a studio with in house production and distribution, just like New Line

So, you use the original mix as your guide and only re-balance and re-EQ specifically for home theater playback and add no new elements. When a 6th or 7th channel is added, doesn't that more solidly place sounds in the rear? Now that I'm thinking about it, how do we get sounds behind us without rear surrounds?

One final question to pick up on one thing that you said; is there any standardization for home theater mixes, or does everyone in your position do their own thing?

Thanks, Jeff
post #238 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Apocalypto (LPCM) Tier 0
I think since this is already in Tier 0 maybe now it can be in bold letters unless someone objects to it?
A fantastic track there is nothing to complain here wasn't this nominated for an Oscar for sound? If it wasn't it should have been. Also check out the commentary track, it's very light hearted but with some good info about making the movie.

done.
post #239 of 2680
I had seen Yuma 2 times in 5.1 (SDDVD) and then yesterday watched it in 7.1 blu-ray. It was great sounding with gunshots through all channels, but not Tier 0.

I could not for the life of me get the movie in 16:9 aspect ratio to match my screen??

gasdoc
post #240 of 2680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imuesmail View Post

I had seen Yuma 2 times in 5.1 (SDDVD) and then yesterday watched it in 7.1 blu-ray. It was great sounding with gunshots through all channels, but not Tier 0.

I could not for the life of me get the movie in 16:9 aspect ratio to match my screen??

gasdoc

not sure if i want to take into consideration soemone who can't get his screen to match aspect ratio of the disc. are you sure you are listening to the uncompressed track via hdmi?
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