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My Journey to find the "perfect" speaker... - Page 3

post #61 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

At least let me see what they look like!

I will, next Monday, after I audition them in person. I don't have anything I can send you now. I'm just thrilled at the possiblity that this might be true. It just sounds too good to be true. But then again, these are all experienced audio reviewers and if they are ALL gushing the same... there must be something there.
post #62 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemed67 View Post

Another report from well known audio veteran on these mysterious new speakers:
----------

Anyone knows what speakers he is talking about?

http://www.podiumsound.co.uk/homepage.html
post #63 of 6914
Mudslide -

With all sincerity, I am happy that the AA's turned out to be the right speaker for you, and again I meant no discredit to the brand or your choice. They are supurbly engineered speakers that are just as supurbly built, by a man that truly cares about good sound quality. In fact, I generally hesitate saying anything negative about the speakers I've auditioned, because I would hate to raise doubt in others choices, or cause them to feel that they need to defend them. I hope you understand that I only described my experience with the Aerials to make a point. I appreciate your understanding and applaud your confidence in your choice.

Happy listening!
post #64 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Okay, cause I noticed you mentioned one of your former set-ups not being very clear with vocals during movies. I recently put some treatments up in my room, and one of the biggest differences I've noticed pertains to just that. I run a phantom center, which I really prefer unless sitting off-axis. Well, one of my chairs is outside the left speaker, and it really wasn't anything like sitting nearer the sweet spot. Well, now that I've treated the room, the off-axis sound is MUCH better. Vocals are crystal clear no matter where you sit.

I guess it's sort of my soapbox issue lately, but I think it's hard to get a real feel for what your speakers can do unless you take the room out of the equation to the greatest extent possible.

I have no doubt that your room treatments have improved the sound of your system, and I am enveous of your room. Even though I can't treat my current room, I am the first to recommend to anyone looking for better sound. I have been to the local high-end AV store enough times, where all of the rooms are treated, to know just how much cleaner everything sounds in a properly treated room. But alas, I am a few years away from getting into a new home that will allow me such luxuries.

With that said, I am confident that with the Vienna Acosutics, the poor intelligibility was due to the intentionally recessed "presence region" of those speakers. The 2-4kHz region is where the sound of consanants are. Suppress this range too much, and things like m's, b's and v's become indistinguishable. Also consider that I had no such problems with any of the other speakers I have owned.

Cheers.
post #65 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim916 View Post

http://www.podiumsound.co.uk/homepage.html

Ah, sweet relief. . . thanks Tim, now I can rest tonight.

I would love to hear these, as they make some pretty tall claims.

Treemed67 - Make sure to report back on them after your audition.
post #66 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Mudslide -

I appreciate your understanding and applaud your confidence in your choice.

Happy listening!

You misunderstand....just a tiny bit. This is not my choice for me. The speakers I am recommending are for Nuance and his stated preferences. I have other audio fish to fry...namely HT with a dynamic presence trumping all else. But yes, for a premium all-purpose loudspeaker that he craves, and within his budgetary constraints, my belief is that the 7B's will do just fine.
post #67 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I would love to hear these, as they make some pretty tall claims.
Treemed67 - Make sure to report back on them after your audition.

Congratulations Tim on investigational mind.

Yes hifisponge, I'll certainly post a report. I'm very curious to hear if they stand up to the hype, as I have not heard speakers before receiving such a consistent praise. It would be great if they deliver on the promise. Perfect speakers?

We'll see...
post #68 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Wow...hifisponge, that post was amazing. Thanks man, I really appreciate it!

I agree with much of what you said. Measurements do not a great speaker make. I would prefer to start with a flat FR, but as you mentioned, the FR off axis won't remain flat, so that certainly does suck. I have never found a speaker that maintained a flat FR off axis...it's a shame.....

No problem. I felt that I may have gotten carried away, but I try to write what I seek, and that is a detailed account of a fellow audio enthusiast's experiences.

Since you are interested in "accurate" FR, here is something to consider.

Based on the graph below, you could say that this bookshelf speaker deviates from accuracy due to the rise in the treble starting at around 5kHz. You might even conclude that this speaker will sound "bright".


Here is that same speaker measured in the reviewer's room.


See how flat the treble is now? This is because the treble rolls off to the sides of this speaker, resulting in a "power response" that is better balanced. The designer's goal for this speaker was flat in-room response vs. flat anechoic response. Now some will still find this speaker sounds a little bright, because the theorical ideal is that the in-room response gently roll of in the upper treble. But for me, this is the perfect in-room tonal balance, as the treble is lifted just enough to accentuate detail without sounding overly bright or sharp. (BTW - The irregularities in the lower midrange are due to the room.)

Now here is a speaker with boosted on-axis treble and wide dispersion.


And the in-room response.


This speaker is likely to sound bright and very detailed to most people, and possibly too "hot" to others because the power response is still quite elevated in the treble.

Just sharing what I have learned over the years. If you have any follow-up questions, feel free to PM me.

Cheers.
post #69 of 6914
Quote:


Originally Posted by hifisponge
OK, so here's where I get the collective audiophile slap . . ., and yes I know better, but I have no room treatments.

I have, however done all that I can to make our multipurpose living room as audio-friendly as possible. Thick shag carpet, overstuffed furniture, heavy drapes over the windows . . . The room is certainly not full of hard surfaces, and is not overly "live". And in my defense, many of the negative traits I have experienced with the speakers I've owned have been echoed in the professional reviews of those same speakers, so it isn't just my room.

With that said, I fully understand the benefits of an acoustically treated room and have every intention of having a dedicated room for sound in my next house, but for now I, like many others here, have wives to live with that don't want the main living room to look like a recording studio. And yes, I know there are attractive options for room treatment, but this really isn't the house or the room to invest that sort of effort in.

Quote:


Okay, cause I noticed you mentioned one of your former set-ups not being very clear with vocals during movies. I recently put some treatments up in my room, and one of the biggest differences I've noticed pertains to just that. I run a phantom center, which I really prefer unless sitting off-axis. Well, one of my chairs is outside the left speaker, and it really wasn't anything like sitting nearer the sweet spot. Well, now that I've treated the room, the off-axis sound is MUCH better. Vocals are crystal clear no matter where you sit.

I guess it's sort of my soapbox issue lately, but I think it's hard to get a real feel for what your speakers can do unless you take the room out of the equation to the greatest extent possible.

As one who sells room treatments let me say that I greatly prefer passive room treatments to most electronic EQ solutions above the bass regions. This being said, the things that Hifisponge did do to his room ARE the sort of things I think of when talking about basic, room (and wife) friendly initial responses, or treatments, to a room with obvious problems. The brain though , is a remarkable filter and can also help identify speaker characteristics independant of the room by it's understanding and compensation for some of the rooms issues. A Viola player I knew once told me that while there were certain rooms she liked playing in more than others, there wasn't a room she'd played in where she couldn't tune her instrument or where she couldn't still pick out differant types of the same instrument played by others in the ensemble.
I have also seen some room treatments applied haphazardly , or applied incorrrectly so as to not be visually asymetrical or otherwise offensive and I often shake my head at good intentions gone awry when people have done much , but not done it well.
While not the case in some really offensive rooms, I still regard the speaker as being more important in personal selection and primary enjoyment then the room.....and just to be clear, there is potentially a lot more money in doing room treatments than in speakers, and while, in an FR way, more possible benifit in a perfectly set-up room , controlled for the listening position, I still think that the simple types of passive correction Hifisponge has done are the kinds of things that will take the larger negatives out of the equation for many people.
post #70 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

With that said, I fully understand the benefits of an acoustically treated room and have every intention of having a dedicated room for sound in my next house, but for now I, like many others here, have wives to live with that don't want the main living room to look like a recording studio. And yes, I know there are attractive options for room treatment, but this really isn't the house or the room to invest that sort of effort in.

If you don't glue them to the wall, acoustic panels can be taken to the next house with you. The "investment" has life beyond your current room or house.
post #71 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemed67 View Post

Congratulations Tim on investigational mind.

Yes hifisponge, I'll certainly post a report. I'm very curious to hear if they stand up to the hype, as I have not heard speakers before receiving such a consistent praise. It would be great if they deliver on the promise. Perfect speakers?

We'll see...

They look interesting, but it looks like they employ a single large panel to reproduce all frequencies and thus will probably have beamy highs and a very narrow sweet spot.
post #72 of 6914
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemed67 View Post

Just recently I started for the first time thinking about multichannel audio and video, and wild idea started haunting me: What if I can incorporate both?

Then a few months ago I was introduced to a few incredibly enticing reports from a Munich 2007 High-End Show. They were talking about a new speaker that sounded perfect in every parameter possible. I will be attending Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Colorado this coming weekend just to have a chance to hear this speakers!

I will be intentionally mysterious in this post about the speaker maker as a teaser but will be reporting in a week if I truly find that they meet the hype they generated in such a short time. If all these reports are true, they would meet every single parameter of a perfect speaker, right down to relatively affordable cost. And they would be perfect for audio and video based system.

This is from a few reports:
Upon entering, we were the only visitors and took a seat facing two ...loudspeakers...
...Well, some eight minutes later we had tears in our eyes and a warm feeling in our solar plexus. ...Above all, things were so intensely musical that it was downright scary.

The gentleman introduced himself as.... and asked if he might explain a little about his speakers. For years he has been struggling with the sound of loudspeakers. As a musician and composer -- he is a pianist -- he wanted to get the sound of a piano right when reproduced with other instruments. He had experimented with classic piston drivers, electrostatics, magnetics, NXT flat panels and more to finally come up with a better solution.

There was no breakup, no smearing, no annoying highs, just the music filling the room. And there was no such thing as a point source. There was simply imaging but not as you know it, i.e. without typical pin-point stereo effects. The sound was merely there filling the room. Forget about soundstage in the sense that musician A is exactly there and on his own. Yes, he is there but simply as part of the remainder. Wandering about the room did not disturb this imaging either. The front-to-back perspective remained consistent and locked.

This experience proved so overwhelming that we jumped at the opportunity to audition a pair of the largest... loudspeakers in our own Rotterdam environment. ...has developed a truly new and affordable full-range musical instrument that plays music like the real thing. The top model is 10,000/pr euros.
--------------

Anyone knows which speakers they are talking about?

Whoa! I am super excited now!! If such a speaker can actually be engineered and have that effect on the majority of it's listeners - brilliant!

Aww man...the wait on this is gonna kill me, but well worth it if they truly perform as those journalists say they do. Please update me after you attend the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest! Woohoo...makes me wish I loved in Colorado.

Thank you for your very informative post treemed67! One question, though: what does 10,000 Euros translate to in American dollars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

...but for now I, like many others here, have wives to live with that don't want the main living room to look like a recording studio. And yes, I know there are attractive options for room treatment, but this really isn't the house or the room to invest that sort of effort in.

Bingo and bingo! I am going to attempt to turn the basement into something special, but right now it needs to be finished first (as in dry walled and all that good stuff). There is no way she will allow the living or family room to be turned into a dedicated theater room with odd bass traps and acoustic panels, though I beg her daily. I will eventually have an asylum for my audio gear, however.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

If you don't tell me I might throw-up with anxiety! Not dynamic drivers, not ESLs, not ribbons . . . what the hell are they using? Lasers? No, sharks with lasers strapped to their heads! At least let me see what they look like!

HAHA LMAO! woooooo, you are killing me here!
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemed67 View Post

Another report from well known audio veteran on these mysterious new speakers:

“Most written descriptions of audio equipment and the sound they produce are viewed as clichés. That’s not the intention of the writers of course, but that’s the way it turns out. All the typical descriptive words such as ‘staggering’, ‘awesome’, ‘jaw-dropping’ and so on have become devalued by overuse or inappropriate use. So we won’t be using any of those words here nor indeed during our demonstration. Instead we’ll stick to the facts.

What you will hear is quite literally a world first: A new and unique full-range loudspeaker system. No ribbons (even though we love ribbons), no electrostatic devices (even though we love those too) and no cone drivers or subwoofers. Moreover no hype and no tricks. Promise!

For most people, how we achieve what we achieve is probably interesting for only a short while, if that. If you want to know the details come and talk to us. You might however be interested to note that there are no teams of laboratory bound white coated boffins here. Instead we have a distinctly intriguing combination of a world-renowned concert pianist and an audio engineer with over 25 years experience working with panel loudspeakers.

We have all the electronic measuring equipment of course and the wide-ranging know-how necessary to properly understand the subtleties of loudspeaker design. But we have also allowed ourselves complete freedom to think about psycho-acoustics in new ways, and then apply the appropriate technologies to achieve our goals.

The sound of our loudspeakers has all the positive attributes of the classic designs we grew up with, the ones we all know, love and respect. But we also achieve something extra - difficult to define in words. It is the sort of visceral excitement that comes from any music heard played live by accomplished musicians. But now this is achievable at any volume level and listening position in any room. The traditional ’sweet-spot’ and specific volume requirement described as ‘realistic’ by some and ‘rather too loud’ by others are both startlingly absent.

Bass extension is what you’d expect: Sustained thunder on organ notes yet capable of lightening fast transients as typified by a rim-shot in a smoky jazz club. The speakers go loud of course, but can whisper too. There’s a whole lot more, but you’ll know if our sound is the sound for you within seconds.

Finally, you’ll hear and see that our loudspeakers are modestly priced and can be driven by relatively small integrated amplifiers."
----------

Anyone knows what speakers he is talking about?

Yes, he's talking about my DREAM speaker! Man, if they are truly that good, I will flip! I'll have to wait and see if there sound is for me!

Oh, this teasing is going to drive me coocoo!
post #73 of 6914
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

It is your ears in your setup that must be pleased, not ours. The making of recommendations for your audition is the best we should offer.

I absolutely agree with that! That's why I am just asking for opinions and experiences and will put them in a research journal of sorts. Just because 100 guys all post that they love the same speaker doesn't mean that I will. In the end my ears will make that decision (of course).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

If you like, Nuance, I'd be glad to detail the specifics of the clean and dynamic performance and perceived excellence that I and many others have found in the Aerials over other brands in that price range.

You are certainly more than welcome to. I, of course, will take your experiences as just that; your experiences. It is always fun to read about someone else's journey and experiences, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Instead though, allow me to just advise you again to audition, be mindful of your budget (which is why I recommended the 7B's over the 9's), your room acoustics (and treatments), and consider the ancillary equipment you'll be using (or acquiring). It's entirely possible that Hifisponge's amp section was a poor fit with the Aerials. That could be the reason for their lackluster presentation for his tastes. We don't know. It's possible that he wanted much more musical coloration from the speakers (which is why the Aerials sounded so very ....neutral...to him). We don't know. It could be the speakers interacting with his room. We don't know.

But of course! I have been preaching that same concept for a couple of years now (on this vary forum), so I am in total agreement with you and would be a fool to not follow my own advice. It's great to get that same advice from other's, though; shows me I am not alone in that area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

So I'll reiterate. Listen for yourself and don't strain your brain or your budget () with this search of yours. There is a thrill in the chase, and that should be your focus. And I agree with Hifisponge. A perfect speaker does not exist. But I believe that one that meets your requirements does. It is perhaps not the AA's. But it surely could be.

Good hunting.

You can bet your bottom dollar that I will listen for myself and only allow my ears to decide...well, and maybe my wife's. I also concur that there is no perfect speaker in this world, but there is one that meets my requirements. Wow...that was well stated Mudslide; I like that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

I guess it's sort of my soapbox issue lately, but I think it's hard to get a real feel for what your speakers can do unless you take the room out of the equation to the greatest extent possible.

I couldn't agree more! Imagine my surprise when I first delved into this hobby and discovered that I also have to dumb research and money into a front end that lacks as much coloration and total harmonic distortion as possible while still maintaining it's true power output with all channels driven, not to mention room treatments in order to remove reflections and room interaction from the audio signal. Needless to say, it was a blow to the groin. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, ya know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim916 View Post

http://www.podiumsound.co.uk/homepage.html

Nice!! Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemed67 View Post

Congratulations Tim on investigational mind.

Yes hifisponge, I'll certainly post a report. I'm very curious to hear if they stand up to the hype, as I have not heard speakers before receiving such a consistent praise. It would be great if they deliver on the promise. Perfect speakers?

We'll see...

I am very much looking forward to your thoughts, even if they are negative. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Sm View Post

As one who sells room treatments let me say that I greatly prefer passive room treatments to most electronic EQ solutions above the bass regions. This being said, the things that Hifisponge did do to his room ARE the sort of things I think of when talking about basic, room (and wife) friendly initial responses, or treatments, to a room with obvious problems. The brain though , is a remarkable filter and can also help identify speaker characteristics independant of the room by it's understanding and compensation for some of the rooms issues. A Viola player I knew once told me that while there were certain rooms she liked playing in more than others, there wasn't a room she'd played in where she couldn't tune her instrument or where she couldn't still pick out differant types of the same instrument played by others in the ensemble.
I have also seen some room treatments applied haphazardly , or applied incorrrectly so as to not be visually asymetrical or otherwise offensive and I often shake my head at good intentions gone awry when people have done much , but not done it well.
While not the case in some really offensive rooms, I still regard the speaker as being more important in personal selection and primary enjoyment then the room.....and just to be clear, there is potentially a lot more money in doing room treatments than in speakers, and while, in an FR way, more possible benifit in a perfectly set-up room , controlled for the listening position, I still think that the simple types of passive correction Hifisponge has done are the kinds of things that will take the larger negatives out of the equation for many people.

Very well written! Thank you, Jake!
post #74 of 6914
Thread Starter 
treemed67, those Podium speakers are crazy looking! It appears a metal spike in the back helps stabilize them. I wonder if they would be easy to tip over, cause they appear that way.

Anyway, I am looking forward to your review of them. I can't believe they are that thin!
post #75 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim916 View Post

They look interesting, but it looks like they employ a single large panel to reproduce all frequencies and thus will probably have beamy highs and a very narrow sweet spot.

Tim, not at all! I was many times attracted to panel speakers, but they all have problems you described. There are some things that Magnepans, Sound Lab and a few others do better than anything else out there. I was just a few week ago listening to excellent set up of Magnepans, and they were so engaging while I was in a sweet spot.

But all panels have one problem, once you move even a few feet away, they are completely washed out, focus is lost.
Reports on Podium is that they can be placed anywhere, and they are not prone at all to sweet spot. Even that they are panel speakers they have nothing to do with other panel speakers technologies. This is a brand new technicasl thinking. It's sounds amazing and too good to be true. I'm not in position to travel at all at this point, but I have rearranged my schedule in a hurry to hear them, that's how excited I got.

As analogy, I'm thinking about buying Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO-150FD 60". I really didn't want to spend that much on display, but when I started reading all these reviews and some of them claimed they couldn't find any shortcomings at all, and one reviewer said that even jaded reviewer like him got thoroughly excited, it made me a believer. Similarly, this promises to be technology where reviewers claim to be near perfect, or as perfect as we can imagine at this point. But they all say that this is in a completely new league compared to anything else ever made.

The difference is, unlike Pioneer which commands PREMIUM price for its supreme technology, these are relatively affordable.
The top model is priced at 10k Euros, which I believe is about $12-13k, but there are less expensive models. My current speakers are almost 3x as much.

So, yes, I'm excited. We'll see very soon!
post #76 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

those Podium speakers are crazy looking! It appears a metal spike in the back helps stabilize them. I wonder if they would be easy to tip over, cause they appear that way.

I don't have answer to that question. The company claims they are completely stable and that you can tuck them away all the way to the wall if you want, save for the distance on the bottom for the spikes, which is good for space saving too.
But that is certainly one of the things I WANT to investigate too. I want stable speakers.

What excites me a lot, besides the reported sound, is that they say they are EASY TO DRIVE. You know what that means? All the panel speakers are known for notoriously resistive load, requiring behemoth expensive amplifiers. These seem to be able to drive even with low power SET (Singel Ended Triodes) amps.
Personally, that was one of the things on my wish list.

But of course, the most important aspect on my wish list is ability to realistically reproduce live musical event and yet not to confine me to one sweet spot. I don't sit down to listen to music often, I move all the time. I don't know who has the time to sit for hours just to listen to music in a disciplined analytical way. It would be great if they truly live up to the claim of reproducing realistic soundstage wherever you are.

This is that part from one of the reviewer's report that got my juices flowing the most:

"There was no breakup, no smearing, no annoying highs, just the music filling the room. And there was no such thing as a point source. There was simply imaging but not as you know it, i.e. without typical pin-point stereo effects. The sound was merely there filling the room. Forget about soundstage in the sense that musician A is exactly there and on his own. Yes, he is there but simply as part of the remainder. Wandering about the room did not disturb this imaging either. The front-to-back perspective remained consistent and locked."

"This experience proved so overwhelming that we jumped at the opportunity to audition a pair of the largest... loudspeakers in our own Rotterdam environment. ...has developed a truly new and affordable full-range musical instrument that plays music like the real thing."
post #77 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Sm View Post

As one who sells room treatments let me say that I greatly prefer passive room treatments to most electronic EQ solutions above the bass regions. This being said, the things that Hifisponge did do to his room ARE the sort of things I think of when talking about basic, room (and wife) friendly initial responses, or treatments, to a room with obvious problems. The brain though , is a remarkable filter and can also help identify speaker characteristics independant of the room by it's understanding and compensation for some of the rooms issues. A Viola player I knew once told me that while there were certain rooms she liked playing in more than others, there wasn't a room she'd played in where she couldn't tune her instrument or where she couldn't still pick out differant types of the same instrument played by others in the ensemble.
I have also seen some room treatments applied haphazardly , or applied incorrrectly so as to not be visually asymetrical or otherwise offensive and I often shake my head at good intentions gone awry when people have done much , but not done it well.
While not the case in some really offensive rooms, I still regard the speaker as being more important in personal selection and primary enjoyment then the room.....and just to be clear, there is potentially a lot more money in doing room treatments than in speakers, and while, in an FR way, more possible benifit in a perfectly set-up room , controlled for the listening position, I still think that the simple types of passive correction Hifisponge has done are the kinds of things that will take the larger negatives out of the equation for many people.

Maybe you're in the wrong business then....you should be selling overstuffed furniture, heavy carpet, and thick drapes

I'm sure those things help, and I totally understand the WAF, but they aren't going to help as much as bass traps and treating reflection points, IMO. But my post to him wasn't mean to be a criticism, it was meant to address his mention of poor dialog by sharing my own experience. Not sure why there is such an apparent need to defend the fact that he doesn't have them, lol. Hell, I've only had mine for the last couple weeks!
post #78 of 6914
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by treemed67 View Post


As analogy, I'm thinking about buying Pioneer Kuro Elite PRO-150FD 60". I really didn't want to spend that much on display, but when I started reading all these reviews and some of them claimed they couldn't find any shortcomings at all, and one reviewer said that even jaded reviewer like him got thoroughly excited, it made me a believer. Similarly, this promises to be technology where reviewers claim to be near perfect, or as perfect as we can imagine at this point. But they all say that this is in a completely new league compared to anything else ever made.

Sorry, but I can't resist. IMO, the Pioneer Pro-150FD is simply the best plasma TV you can currently purchase, bar none! I am sure you have seen me in the Kuro Owner's and Settings threads. If you need any help with tweaking that TV, give me a PM or catch us over in that thread. I own a Kuro and it still blows my mind every time I watch a show. You made the right decision treemed.

In contrast, what I described above is what I want to find in a speaker; I want it to blow my mind! If the Podium's are it, I have a lot of saving to do.

My search for the "perfect" plasma is over, but my speaker journey has just begun (and I have looked for years).
post #79 of 6914
Not to burst anyone's bubble - but did you read the review and postscript on 6moon's review of the Podium speakers?

Reviewers usually get very good samples. I would be wary of speakers that are easily damaged in transit and require the designer to fly out, repair, and tune the speakers.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/podium/1_2.html

There is a sweet spot in a live music venue. The claim that playback of music in a room does not have/need a sweetspot is suspect to me.

And what about this quote from the aforementioned site:

At first, the Model One sounds washed-out, tipped up, pale and lifeless. However, the ear/brain truly does "switch" and what seemed all wrong suddenly begins to make a strange kind of holistic sense which then has you question conventional speakers.

Hmm....

- Steve O.
post #80 of 6914
If it sounds too good to be true...
post #81 of 6914
Thread Starter 
Scorch, I too read those comments and/or reviews. As always, only your ears will be able to determine what is right for you. I would certainly love to listen to a pair of these speakers, but if I cannot, oh well. I have to work with what I can find.
post #82 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

One question, though: what does 10,000 Euros translate to in American dollars?

Pre 2000, around $8900. At today's exchange rates: $14000. Thank you, GW.
post #83 of 6914
My oh my, there sure are a lot of quotes in this thread!
post #84 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I am going to attempt to turn the basement into something special, but right now it needs to be finished first (as in dry walled and all that good stuff).

I don't think it's good idea to use dry wall for good sound. I think the quality of the walls, ceilings and floor is the first significant step toward good sound, and dry wall is one of the worst things acoustically. I assume you can't change much ceiling and floor, since this is an existing structure, but you can do a lot about walls.

You could, for example, consider
www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html

Now, this stuff is definitelly expensive. But if you have the money it seems to be great solution.

Another thing that showed up recently is:
http://acoustiblok.com/?gclid=CMvW9s...FREDWAodpT783A

I think it's less expensive, but still not cheap by any means.

The least expensive is probably to do double drywall glued together with Green Glue.
http://www.greengluecompany.com
A friend of mine did a theater room this way, and is very happy.
He also did this:
http://www.soundaway.com/Sound_Isola...oducts_s/5.htm

This is another wall system:
http://supressproducts.com/

I have tons of the links for acoustic isolation and treatment, but these seem to be the most relevant to you, if you want to tackle this issue seriously.
post #85 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorch123 View Post

Not to burst anyone's bubble - but did you read the review and postscript on 6moon's review of the Podium speakers?

At first, the Model One sounds washed-out, tipped up, pale and lifeless. However, the ear/brain truly does "switch" and what seemed all wrong suddenly begins to make a strange kind of holistic sense which then has you question conventional speakers.

- Steve O.

Steve, No I have not seen that report before, but just read it now. Thanks! I really appreciate it. It will help me to mentally better prepare for the trip.

I see their criticism, but I was also curious to read that they concluded if they had a choice to make between Quad and Podium 1, they would choose Podium.
I never had a chance to hear Quads, but I know they are legendary. But I did hear very good Magnepan set up and top of the line Sound Labs, and both times I was blown away. But when I stood up and moved even a few feet away, it was totally different story. That was a deal breaker for me. As I said before, I'm not a kind of person to regularly sit in front my speakers alone to listen to music, so why buy speaker that would satisfy me on a rare occasion where I can just sit down and listen. I'm not an audiophile in a typical sense, by any means. I'm a music lover!

Ever since those two experiences, I was dreaming about possibility that someone could make panel speakers, but without limitations of sweet spot. And then just as I was thinking about it a few months ago, I found the Munich High-End Show report talking about this new unusual technology. I'm very eager to find out if this British concert pianist has figured it out.

As Nuance has said, your own ears are the best judge, so I'm eager what my ears will process. Until then, this is a teaser to me as much as it is to you.
post #86 of 6914
BTW, to all you guys discussing the acoustics, especially WAF in living rooms, take a look at this Italian design... Scroll to the bottom of the page and look at Flexum
www.laboratorium-yter.com/en/soluzione.html

I just discovered this site. To me Flexum looks gorgeous. I will consider it for my room.
post #87 of 6914
treemed67 -

Forget the Flexum, I want those gorgeous Yter speaker cables, and I don't even beleive in the benefits of expensive cables. Those things are like audiophile jewelry!

BTW - what are your favorite speakers at the moment, and what do you own?

Edit: Looked back at your earlier posts and I see your current speakers are the Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario.
post #88 of 6914
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

treemed67 BTW - what are your favorite speakers at the moment, and what do you own?

If you look at the beginning of my comments on this thread, I owned quite a few speakers and my favorites by far are the speakers I own right now - Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario. The added benefit of course is that they are gorgeous looking! You have to see them in real life to appreciate their beauty. I had Sonus Faber Stradivari for a few months before I got Amati, and Amati to me was better sounding. It was more transparent, better soundstange. I have heard some speakers that impressed me a lot at the high end shows, but it's hard to know if I would be impressed the same way in familiar environment. In my room so far, Sonus Faber is the king
Years ago, I had Sonus Faber Extrema, but that was minimonitor and was weak in bass. Amatis have all that musicality, but it's there from top to bottom.
post #89 of 6914
Yes, Sonus certainly makes some beautiful speakers. Magnolia AV here in Seattle carries the line, and while I have never cared for the sound of the lower lines in the Sonus family, the Amati's are impressive. I especially love the black stained finish. You can still see the wonderful woodgrain, but they take on a more distinctive and modern look that I prefer.
post #90 of 6914
I'm with you guys on the Amatis. I find the Sonus Faber sound to be as musical as it gets...top to bottom on their available models. They image like crazy, with instruments and voices just hanging in the air, but anchored in place. To top it off, they're like lovely Italian women or sports cars....sexy and beeeea-U-tiful. They're pretty 'spensive though. If I had the resources for my second setup, my office/2-channel music room, these would definitely be my choice. I'd dump my older, but loved, ACI's in a flash for any SF model. (Sorry, Mike. ) But then again, the SF's are a LOT more expensive than ACI's.

My single displeasure with SF's is their lack of dynamic presentation compared to a few others. 80% of my listening is to HT. It didn't help that I auditioned them against some Martin Logans, king of dynamics. (These are the only speakers that I ever heard that are actually too dynamic. They eventually cut through my ears like razors. While dynamic loudspeakers are what I crave, the Summits nearly destroyed what's left of my rapidly diminishing cerebral material, lol.)
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