My Journey to find the "perfect" speaker... - Page 34

I have seen some pro speakers use multilayer ply rather than MDF, but I think that's to save weight, not because multilayer ply is more inert. Probably the opposite. Some pro speakers are designed to be "sandbagged", which certainly suggests that their mulitlayer ply sides aren't terribly inert.


My understanding is that ribbon tweeters are known for narrow dispersion patterns, not wide. Or at least very narrow vertically. Maybe someone else knows better than I.

Too funny, Rydenfan and I have been talking behind the scenes about these speakers for the past few days, and being the technical / analytical type that you know me to be, I was quite impressed with all of the solid engineering principles behind the Monitor Audio Platinums. In fact it seems a certain someone borrowed my laundry list of techincal benfits and listed them here before I could. You know who you are.

Anywhoo, it just so happens that my local MA dealer just got the PL300's and the PL100's in yesterday. I went and looked at them today and gave them a quick listen, but I am reserving my comments on their sound quality until they have them properly positioned and until they have a bit of playing time on them.

Nuance, you asked about the benfits of the Nomex core used in the mid and bass drivers. MA has a history of borrowing technology from the aerospace industry (C-CAM is used in airplane structures), and the use of Nomex takes this concept one step further. Boy, maybe I should work for the company with comments like that.

The basic idea behind a sandwich cone of C-CAM and Nomex is that the combination of the two gets closer to the ideal driver material, which would be ultra light, stiff and well damped.

This is from the Dupont Nomex web site:

"For more than 30 years, the transportation industry has embraced Nomex® honeycomb for its unrivalled strength-to-weight ratio, which helps to provide vital cost-effective benefits like energy savings and payload increases. Stiff, thin Nomex® sheet structures are used to make extremely strong, yet lightweight honeycomb sandwich composite structures found in aircraft parts such as tail-fins, engine nacelles and helicopter blades. Nomex® honeycomb is also used in the construction of boats to provide buoyancy that enhances speed."

An Italian AV magazine measured the response of the Platinum drivers and confirmed that the drivers in fact do not ring like typical metal drivers. The review is available on the MA website, but here is a snippet (translated from Italian to English):

"The typical alterations to the response due to the use of aluminium membranes are almost completely absent; the features that were unavoidably due to the resonances of the membrane, in the Platinum have been cancelled!"

I'll post my impressions of the Platinum's sound quality here when I have a chance to listen to them with my own music.

That comment on the absence of MDF in the cabinet was taken out of context. The use of ply by its self isn't all that impressive, but the curviture of the cabinet, the use of torsion bolts to tune out cabinet resonances, and bitumen to deaden the interior are pretty impressive IMO when viewed as a whole.



You are correct, ribbons are known to have wide horizontal, but narrow vertical dispersion. The intent of that comment was that MA claims to have improved the vertical dispersion of their ribbon tweeter. With that said, I listened to the MA Platinum PL300 today and when standing close to the speaker the ribbon was still quite directional, but from 8 feet away when standing or sitting there was little change in the treble.

Hey Nuance... Just got back from vacation yesterday... Nice to be home and would love to have you shoot by to check out the new stuff this week if you have time.

Just a FYI, Flanners has the Platinum PL300's setup, and I got a gander at them when I was in that area not too long ago, in fact, I'll be in that area again today and maybe I'll take a little time to check them out again, but I don't have to tell you what kind of compromised listening environment they have going over there... I heard them briefly but didn't want to interfere with someone else's audition.

They are an impressively built speaker and very easy on the eyes. I really did like the cabinet, they are a very wide speaker though... kinda squat looking.

They are certainly kind of squat looking, but i can get passed that if they sound like I hope they do

I would be most interested in your listening impressions of them.

That's too bad! It seems like both you guys are pretty down on Falnner's, so I am guessing it may be tough to get a true audition??

Well I'm just about to head out, gotta go to the Mall out there, and Flanners is right there so maybe I'll go over and be a big pain in their sides...

rydenfan
They have a few rooms, that are just littered with all sorts of speakers in a haphazard design IMO and If I recall from my last visit, there are no chairs in that particular room the PL300's are in which is about 15x15 and speakers 360 degrees all around you. So its definitely not an optimal scenario much less any attention to placement or toe in or. One would have to kneel down to get the tweeter level with your ear. I'll see if I can even tolerate overlooking these shortcomings for a somewhat serious audition.

Nuance
Thanks, any night this week looks good for me, PM me and we can set something up.

Nuance -- was curious if -- as mentioned in an earlier post -- you had the chance or plan to have a second audition of the Era D14s. I have Era D4's (some of the same components as the D14 but in a bookshelf), and am curious how this brand -- in your opinion -- compares to everything you've tested.

And people wonder why hi-fi is a dying business and ipods are taking over the world

OK guys, where to begin.... Bear with me it will be a long one and I hope its ok that I add some pics I took here as well. Today was the first time I ever had a good audition/experience at this location, seriously It was great. I walked in the door and as usual there is someone directly right there to pick up the customer, I stormed right by him without making eye contact and headed right to the Monitor Audio room which is about 20x15. I was pleasantly surprised that they had pretty much completed the room, as before everything was all over the place, but now it was somewhat organized, but there are speakers on every wall, and now there were now 2 chairs in the middle of the room, where there were none before. No room treatments, just berber carpeting. Upon stepping in I slid the big heavy door closed. There in front of my face were the PL300's in Rosewood and the PL100's in Ebony, both luscious in color and beautiful. A treat even to just look at, all powered by a full McIntosh, top to bottom. The best part of today was that I was not bothered by anyone of the sales guys for almost 1 hour, nobody even walked into the room... COOL !!! Very unusual, I ended up having to fetch someone when I finally had some questions.
More pictures further down...


Equipment List....
Both Pre-Amps were fed by a shared McIntosh MDC201 CD Player.

Please bear with me here, I am not familiar with any McIntosh Equipment, and it took me a bit to figure out how to use it, but once I did I was well on my way.

MA PL300's (Santos Rosewood)
Pre-Amp C45
Amp MC402 (400x2)

MA PL100's (Ebony Veneer)
McIntosh Tube Equipment (PreAmp & Amp)
Pre-Amp C2200
Amp MC2102 (100x2)

Once I figured out how to get the Mac stuff running it was a pleasure... I brought 2 Cd's with me Craig Chaquico - Acoustic Planet and Daryl Stuermer - Waiting in the Wingsboth are very dynamic albums that have some really amazing tracks. Daryl Steurmer was from the town where I grew up Whitefish Bay, just north of Milwaukee, and I have been to his house as a highschool kid, when he was still touring with Genesis, and now still plays around here locally quite a bit when he is not on tour. Amazing guitarist, as is Craig. There is some very intricate material on these albums that gave me the chance to hear the benefits of the range of the Platinums, bringing out the highs, mids and lows.

To start with, The Platinums are truly fantastic, the full range of the 300's truly shined, where the 100's were just a bit shy bringing out the midrange as delicately as the 3 way with the dedicated 4", and obviously short on the bass, But the Ribbons were extremely clear and precise. No sub was connected to these setup and both speakers were running full range. I went back and forth on the 2 speakers but quickly settled in on just running through the 300's, as that was my intent from the beginning. Not sure I really cared for the way the tubes sounded, kinda quashing the sound spectrum.

The Craig Chiquico runs heavy in the midrange area, and has some great precision with his incredibly articulate and fast guitar plucking, which I have found can stress out the tweeters with the steel of the strings, but the mids and ribbons really sounded great. This is one of the first speakers that I have heard ribbons and it was a pretty nice experience for me, not bright at all. I was really impressed so far...... One of my favorite songs on the Album is Center of Courage !!! Incredible speed, Craig just running through the strings hard !! This will stress out a speaker, I have heard tweets break up at higher volumes of this. The 300's handled it really well.... The whole album sounds fantastic, he does alot of harmonics off the guitar, which to me has always been a pleasure, seriously some hard jams on this album, and really great from beginning to end. It seemed to me that the bass was a bit lacking then what I am used to, but I am running the F112 with my setup at home, and its running hot but its tight, so I tend to keep it a bit higher then I should.

Then I put in the Dayrl Steurmer, Wow - There's the bass, full solid and heavy... they really put it out... To give credit here... The Craig Chiquico was recorded in 1994, and the Steurmer was recorded in 2001, and just sounded like a better more vibrant recording...

I won't get into it so hard with the Steurmer album, as its a more laid back album but has some very pleasant full range sounds. Highs were really refreshing and the tiny little tubular type bells (very delicate sound) they use on this album come through cleanly, and really stood out in my mind where before they never really did. They also can certainly put out bass, without being muddy or boomy at all to me.. Dual Rear ported, they were sitting about 18"s from the wall, and toed in just a bit to where I moved my chair and they were firing just off to the sides of my shoulders. Off axis was pretty good, but they tended to be somewhat focused, they started to lose it for me at about 30 degrees, but not bad. Vertical dispersion was fine when walking around the room standing up as opposed to sitting. The Leather front fascia was a really cool touch with the magnetic grill spectacular. Gloss Finish was spot on... even though they obviously don't clean them EVER...

In the end I would say they are super sweet speakers, obviously I can't put them up against the speakers I'm running now, and in my house seeing as they were priced at $4499.00.... I had to look around the room at the rest of the pricing structure to realize they were priced each... hheheh I really liked them... I couldn't justify the price of them for myself but on the second hand market I would have no problem. They are really sexy, and sounded great. More linear then my Sigs, less pronounced and more even in the mid range but a great tweet. The ribbons are smooth...


More Pictures












Opposite this wall gives you an idea of how weird they setup this room, I did not take pics of the other two walls completely packed to the gills with more and more speakers... you get the Idea... Speakers acsending on both sides...?

Warpdrv -

Thanks for the wonderful review.

Now here's your chance to own some at just about half price:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1213550008

Warpdrv, thanks so much for the review! I truly appreciate you taking the time to head over there. My interest in these continues to grow

I've discussed my take on the PL300's with Tim (hifisponge) before. It's too long to type out again here (maybe he has the notes), but suffice it to say that at one point these were my top choice along with the Paradigm Signature S8's V2. MA has great engineering behind these speakers that appeals to the engineer in me, but for whatever reason the S8's sounded better, albeit by a small margin. However, combined with their lower price tag it made the S8's my first choice. I remember thinking the highs and midrange being slightly better on the S8's, while the bass and slam impact was much better on the PL300's.
Of course this is all before I heard the Focal 1037 Be's

Hey thanks for that bit of info there dread....

I very much find myself basing my thoughts and descisons off the Paradigm Sigs... albeit they are only .v1 I think they are great performers. The PL300's were extremely well engineered, and I would love to hear the .v2 Sigs for comparison sometime in the future, probably instore for my next trip down to Chicago.

Great review Warp, thanks for posting it, and the pics. I like the looks of the PL300 and have become a true fan of ribbon tweet's, but $4800 for a used pair! Wow, thats more than I can spend on a pair of speakers! DOH! I just spent a little more than that on my HT3's !!! You guys should really hear those things, they are easily my favorites and I wouldn't be surprised my opinion doesn't change for a long time to come.

Fine review, Warp. Many thanks for the report. I have a soft spot for MAs and I've wanted to audition the Platinums since they were unveiled last year.

Geez but the audio world is making some gorgeous speakers these days. Those are almost as sexy as Tim's comely Focals.

I have found that ribbons have never given me the ice-pick-to-the-ears irritation. Every ribbon presentation I've heard, even as far back as the early Infinities, has been delicate and clean. The problem has always been with mating the ribbons with the other drivers. I have always heard a disconnect where I'd expect the blending of sounds should be smooth.

Can you address the integration of the tweets with the mids for us?

Mud...

You need to spellcheck your signature to read..."Everyone Else Is Taken..."

Jason

EGADS! Thanks, Jason. Dang keyfourd.

Notes? I gotsya notes right ear!

No problemo...didn't want you walking around with spinach in your teeth...

Jason

Jason:

What speakers have you bought since you are selling your Sierras?

Nuance, I hope you are able to make it over there. I would be really interested in your impressions as well.

Mudslide, I did not have enough time to spend with the 300's to give any such accurate thoughts on mid/tweet integration, much less enough material to really give them a proper run though... I'm sorry..


Thanks Brandon..... You are right, they finally got their $hit together over there with the MA's, but the room was still way to over crowded as well as untreated. It would be nice if they could close off some of those other "living" rooms so to speak and move some of the lower level speakers to those rooms to allow some dedicated listening environments, as well as adding more product lines then just MA, Def Tech's, ML... they used to carry Canton as well.... I guess I really didn't take a look around this time, not exactly sure what they were still carrying at this point, as there are only 2 dedicated rooms like that I never walked into the other room that day. That place is huge, and it would be easy to make use of those other rooms that are seriously worthless they way they sit now... basically decoration IMO.

I work on Friday but if the weather goes south Its a possibility, unless you are talking about the evening.

Oooooh Ooooohh I think I know this one...

Does it start with a D ?






I agree, Brandon has a much better ear and can interpret what he hears more articulately then I can...
I went there about Noon, and the place was pretty much empty, and I think if you tell them to leave you alone they will do just that, especially if they think your buying the PL300's... gotta be a good commission dollar riding on those...