Does blue ray have a BETTER picture then HD-DVD?? - Page 2

I agree - a wash and both will have bad transfers from time to time. A real shame users have to buy 2 players to get all the titles they like right now.
Even worse is the supposed winner will most likely be who pays off the biggest money in the end to settle the matter.

Users loose from start to finish during this BETA test as I see it.

I saw Black Crowes HD-DVD playing in Best Buy and it was macroblocking like crazy. You can't look at video in retail stores.


All the players look exactly the same. The newer players are just improving on speed and features.


Agreed. Looking at the HD-DVD selection today and there aren't many movies I would want at all. I would like Bourne, King Kong, Transformers(with lossless audio), Batman if I had to pick any I would want. I can live without those. I do hope that this war ends soon or the studios just all go neutral.


Well, like I said in another post. We are winning really as they are forced to lower the prices of the players and soon the media. We would be probably still be paying $700+ for a BR player if not for HD-DVD. Also, they are striving to get the best features and best PQ/SQ for bragging rights. We are really only losing studio support and Blu Ray is not losing much in that area.

How scientific!!

To the OP!

If you can, buy them both.

Wendell, HD DVD has direct 24p mode on several players now and the OP already has the PS3 which is also capable of fine 24p output.

And you have proof of this? Or is the player simply doing 3:2 pull down and outputting this as 24P? If so, this could be a hit or miss situation. Did they (Toshiba) resolve the lip sync issue when the player is in 24P mode?

You must have a pretty poor screen if all the players look the same to you.

I agree.

PQ is tied although the early BD PQ wasn't as good as HD DVD.

HD DVD does have more consistent image quality because most disks use a better, more efficient compression standard (VC1). For proof, look at Training Day BD vs. the HD DVD version.

Well my BDP-S300 and PS3 were consistantly better than my Toshiba A2 before it took a tank. I do agree however that some of first HD-DVD and Blu-Rays didn't look all that great... Once again it comes down to the codec used and VC1 is a decent one at that.. But I have seen Mpeg2 look good if done right..

None of the HD DVD players that do 24p are doing any type of 3:2 pulldown. The XA2, A20, A30 and A35, all do 24p. I've had the A20 and now the A35 and there is no lip sync issues with either(I'll assume the A30 falls in here too since it's almost identical to the A20). The only player to have any real issue with the 24p has been the XA2, for which a new firmware update is on it's way.

For my two cents, I'd have to say the only viable comparison would be the same title on a dual format player. Anything else would be inclusive because of the quality of the players utilized. All aren't created equall!!

As an audio nut, Blu-ray has the edge for me. I cannot tell the difference in video quality and doubt anydody that says there is a difference. My display is not 1080p. On the other hand, my audio is very high end with great speakers (go Klipsch!) and DTS-HD MA is important to me.

Eh?? The A35 doesn't provide a superior picture than Blu-ray -- it may not even beat the previous Toshiba champ, XA2 because the former lacks the Reon chip.

If Nature's Journey is any indication, there are horrendously slightly differences between blu-ray (that is almost maxed out, codec-wise) and HD DVD (that is maxed out, codec-wise). And I do mean horrendously slight.

Still, both formats are capable of reference quality video and audio -- including lossless audio, even if the differences between HQ lossy and HQ lossless are negligible or non-existent.

There are several people on the firmware update thread that feel that the 1080p24 on the toshiba's are processed. Was there confirmation stating otherwise?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...d#post11609444

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...d#post11605362

Yes there was...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=907495

I was wondering...

Does the PS3 decode DTS-MA and TrueHD in the player? Or simply bitstream it to the avr?

In the player for TrueHD, but it doesn't decode DTS-MA yet(firmware upgrade, on the way).

Sounds like I'll be going neutral with this upcoming price drop!

Neutral is the only way to go. IMO the war isn't going to end, anytime soon and there are too many good movies on both sides, to ignore one.

No, I'd say not participating at all is the way to go. Most people don't have the $700+ to go format neutral nor do they have an HDTV to fully enjoy the experience. Players and disks are still prohibitively expensive and most smart consumers (not the rabid, foaming mouthed early adopters on this site) would be wise to sit this out and let the chips fall before making a choice.

After reading that thread there are still some descepencies with some people saying its not truley unprocessed and other people arguing that processed is the only way to do it dueto IME.

People agree that it does look better than 1080p60. but there is no official confirmation that I see that states that the XA2/A20 can do 1080p@24 without processing.

Of course I could be missing it

Here is a quote by alan gouger, the site admin.


Gary Murrell also agreed

I really enjoy this hobby and fortunately have X amount of disposable income to take advantage of being an early adopter. I would venture to say a high percentage of "active" members (being those that visit on a daily basis) fall into my category. Your description of an early adopters isn't very flattering and a bit surprising considering you are posting on a hobbyist website.

One thing to keep in mind is that Gary has an XA2, which, as I did say, in my initial post, does seem to be having it's issues with 24p.

Also, did you read Robert's(aka. "DTV Tivo Dealer") post, right below Gary's "agreement" post...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post11634755

He confirms that the A30 is outputting 23.98, as it should and he's not seeing the same results as Alan. I can tell you, from having an A20 and now A35, they BOTH perform identically, in my setup(thru an Onkyo 705, out to a Sony XBR4 40", which is a very capable 24p set).

Anyway, this has gotten off topic, so I'll leave it at that.

Its not really off topic. We are talking PQ. And 1080p@24 is a big part of PQ.

Roberts post states that the A30 is outputting 1080p24. Which is what the firmware patch does. However, that does not mean that the 1080p24 is unprocessed.

where's all these movies on blu-ray that kicks hd dvd's ass? ive had both formats pretty close to launch and theyre pretty much equal for video. matrix, mission impossible, and king kong on hd dvd look great. just like crank and rocky balboa on blu-ray.

Being format neutral myself. I can say PQ wise both are equally as good for the most part when both are at their best, "BUT". On an overall basis HD-DVD has a lot more titles that look Hi-Def than Blu-ray. There is a lot of junk on Blu-ray. I can't say that for HD-DVD. It is disappointing the junk exclusive Blu-ray studios is pushing on people. Bad titles are far and few between on HD-DVD. You will get a ton of them on Blu-ray. Also I don't see lots of grain like I do on Blu-ray. Must be that mpeg 2 Blu-ray uses that causes it. That said I am still more impressed with HD-DVD than I am with Blu-ray considering Blu-ray has better spec's but it don't show. Another thing that people might not agree with is I see more pop (3D) images on HD-DVD than Blu-ray. I really like the coating on Blu-ray. It doesn't scratch as easy as HD-DVDS. If you see any marks just wipe it with a soft lint free cloth and it disappears. On HD-DVD no such luck. That said, I do like Blu-ray and if they win hats off and I will embrace it whole heartedly. Scratched disc's will be far and few.

If soneone were to ask me right now which one would I pick. I would have to say HD-DVD at this point from what I have seen. I own more titles on Blu-ray only because I was getting them cheap at the pawnshop. I tell it like it is and if anyone is format neutral will know what I am talking about if you own lots of titles for both formats. "Slips on flame suit".

which means the pictures are equal unless the players screw them up.

Amen.... I am a working class bum and I somehow mustered up the courage to buy an A2 and a PS3 along with a Middle-tier Sony HDMI receiver, nice Panasonic plasma display, decent cabling, and all the fixins and its been the best investment Ive made in a long time. For what people piss away money on, you can do a home theater that the whole family can enjoy for less than you think...and you can go all HD to boot.

My modest, yet great performing Home system continues to pay dividends pretty much every night in one form or another.

Incorrect.

Both players can use the same codecs, but Blu-Ray disc has a much higher disc capacity, and a much larger overall bandwidth output capacity than HD-DVD. So Blu-Ray has the potential to be MUCH better PQ-wise than HD-DVD.

If a studio chose, they could encode a film for both formats using the AVC codec, but the Blu-Ray encode could take advantage of a higher bit-rate encode because of it's larger disc capacity and output bandwidth capacity, resulting in a finer quality picture from the same movie, using the same codec.

The problem in comparing the two is that the few studios that are neutral and release the same films on both formats generally make One master encode, not two separate masters for each format, and dupe their copies on both formats from that single source. Because of this, they have to use a lower quality, bit-rate and bandwidth starved master that is capable of being played back on an HD-DVD player, so the Blu-Ray purchasers of the same title will see video and audio output that is identical to the HD-DVD format, because the Studios don't want to spend the money for 2 masters at differing quality.