Triad Owner's Thread - Page 6

Hi Paul (All),

I just completed my HT room which contains silver in-walls up front and bronze in-wall surrounds and back-The set up looks fantastic with the custom painted grills. I also have two silver subs on the floor spread out from the screen. My question is, what should I set the bass settings at to get more punch with the subs? The room is 14X20 with the screen and seating on the long walls (20'). Should I also be making bass adjustments on the preamp (Integra 9.8) or leave that level at 0.

Many Thanks

Make sure the fronts and surrounds are set to "small," even though the InWall Silver/4 LCRs look kind of big. Make sure ALL the speakers in the system are in phase, with positive to positive. Set the preamp crossover frequencies to 80 Hz for everything. Calibrate with an SPL meter, and then cheat and add about 2 dB of bass, or even a few dB more if you listen well below reference level. Also, if the subs aren't placed properly, they won't provide much slam. Make sure they're on the floor, and back up against the wall. Try moving them a bit, from 1/3 of the way across the wall to 1/4 of the way. Those are not boomy subs at all, and if the program material doesn't have low bass, the subs won't manufacture it. Judge them with good-sounding material. Two Silver subs should slam pretty good.

Don't turn the bass up on the preamp, either. Run the level higher on the sub amps if you want more oomph.

Paul,

This seems like the best place to get your attention, so here goes:

I'm planning to use Triad InCeiling Bronze/8 LCRs, InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds (in the ceiling) and InWall Bronze/10 PowerSub (again, in ceiling) for a living room 7.1 system. I'm tentatively planning to drive them with a Yamaha RX-V2700, though the H/K AVR347 is another possibility.

The room is, ahem, less than ideally shaped/configured. I have attached a crude floorplan with my proposed speaker locations.

Questions for you:

1. Have you got any suggestions with regard to speaker placement? The gas fireplace in the corner really interferes with the front left/right speaker placement. I have no idea what 'ideal placement' might be for an in-ceiling subwoofer.

2. Am I insulting your speakers with my planned receiver(s)?

The Yamaha receiver is fine.

You have your seating rotated 90 degrees from optimum to the TV/speaker configuration. I understand why you have to do it that way, but it's a problem. The only good seat is the left-hand seat on the sofa across from the TV.

A few comments: Pull the center speaker out from the wall a few feet. Place the subwoofer in the ceiling a few inches away from the wall the TV is on, either in the corner or at a third wave (1/3 of the way across the ceiling, and adjacent to the TV wall.) You will make no bass whatsover placing the sub in the middle of the ceiling where you have it. It's frustrating to see the woofer cone flapping like a sail in a half gale and not hearing any bass. It has to couple with two boundaries to work properly.

Thanks Paul, I will relocate the speakers per your suggestions.

The furniture on the drawing is 'for display purposes only'. The units will be furnished by their eventual owners, and who knows what they'll do.

Hi Paul on the verge of completing my built ins. I was going to placve the L&R speakers on the bottom shelf (vertically or horizontally 19" clearance) and the center on the mantle, surrounds are going tobe an inwall or onwall setup (i may just use the inwall omni's in an onwall configuration since they are more shallow). Wanted to get your thoughts as to what triad's I should go with - I was looking at the silver and bronze LCR's and potentially the silver monitors (little rich for my blood)

thanks

You can fit InRoom Bronze or Silver LCRs vertically on the lower shelves, with a fraction of an inch to spare for the Silvers. The center is not an ideal scenario, but you could use an OnWall Bronze LCR, which uses the same drivers as the Silver, other than they are smaller in diameter. The center channel wouldn't have as much headroom, but it would still work well. Anytime there's a TV above a fireplace, speaker options become limited.

Don't try to mount an InWall Gold/4 Omni on the wall. It'll look horrible, there's no provision for wall mounting, and the grill and frame won't attach properly. Either use an InWall or an OnWall version for the appropriate application.

Your best choice up front would be InRoom Silver Monitors, as you mentioned, but they are $2,000 each and there's no OnWall version. We can make one as a custom product, though, if you want one.

One more thing...The LCRs all have metal grills, and for no extra charge we can match the color of your shelves for a clean look. The Monitors have a cloth grill that comes in black or white...for now.

Thanks Paul - very helpful as always. any reason you are reccomending an onwall center rather than placing a matching LCR on the mantle shelf? Also any plans for an on wall bronze/silver omni?

I hastily read your post, and I missed that. You can use a Silver LCR or Bronze LCR on the mantle. Horizontal configuration isn't ideal, but not much is absolutely ideal. Okay, nothing is.

We will not be making a Bronze or Silver version of the OnWall Gold Omni. We are working on other options that are over a year off. The current extruded aluminum enclosure is expensive for us to build, even though I love the look, and we are exploring less expensive onwall technologies for the smaller sizes.

Well, ordered my Triads today....walked in to my dealer today to give him my color samples......2 rear On wall Bronze Surrounds, 2 In Wall Bronze LCR's for left and right, and one In Wall bronze LCR for my center channel.....

looking forward to them! What should I set the crossover of my sub at when I get them? Sub is a Sunfire True EQ, receiver is Onkyo 875

Congratulations, and let us know how it works out. Start out with the crossover frequencies set to 80 Hz. If you like to headbang, you may want to move that up to 100 Hz. If you can still localize the sub, try setting the sub to 60 Hz and the Bronze LCRs to 80 Hz, or the sub at 80 Hz and the LCRs at 100 Hz.

Hi Paul,

For Inwall Gold L & R can it be install just about 2 - 3 inches from side wall. (due to the width of the room) will that affect the sound quality or should there be a minimum distance away from the side wall.


Thanks
Marcus Gan

That's too close to the side wall for ANY speaker. You'll get too much gain in the lower midrange/bass, plus some nasty 1st reflections. The only way to improve the situation is to use an equalizer or room correction to knock down the peaks, and put acoustical panels on the wall adjacent to the speakers. Those two things will help a great deal.

WOW! Impressive! My dealer just got acknowledgement of my order at Triad on Tuesday....when we asked Triad about an ETA ( thinking it's going to take about a month), Tina at Triad emailed back and said my order would ship by the 10th!

That's outstanding service considering that the speakers have to be made and color matched! I don't know if this is the norm, but regardless, I'm impressed...

hats off to you guys! Paul, you got a great team!

This is the norm. In order to compete with speaker companies that have a warehouse full of Chinese-built product just waiting to ship, we have to build and ship expediently. You are always welcome (as are any of you) to come up for a factory tour to see this machine in action. Having the digital paint matching equipment and all the base and tint paints in house has shortened the custom finish process to about two days longer than our regular 3-4 day turnaround.

We ship FedEx 3-day, so your speakers won't be languishing somewhere for a week, either.

I don't want to jinx this deal, so I'll shut up now...

Unrelated note: The new Challenger Hemi, at 4150 lbs., 13/18 mpg, and a base price of $41,000 will be dead on arrival. Too bad, because it looks great. I still love the old Mopars best.

but as a former (kick myself in arse) '67 Coronet RT and '66 Hemi Charger owner, I agree with all three points. The 'rod is a beauty, but a day late/dollar short to the retro party.

A real shame, too. I had such high (antiquated babyboomer lust) hopes for it.

It's sad, but my car didn't cost a whole lot more, it's the same horsepower, but it gets 50% better highway gas mileage and weighs 950 lbs. less. Maybe Chrysler should do what speaker companies do; give up, and put their brand name on some kewl-looking Chinese imports. Okay, sorry...rant off.

Hey Paul,

I know how you feel. The name of my main corporation starts with All American, which also owns Audio Dynamics Div. my HT business. Sometimes, it seems being patriotic is insane, when our politicians are a bunch of sell outs and most of the goods we buy, including our food and other consumables are inferior garbage from our enemy, China.

But don't worry! The companies importing crappy Chinese speakers aren't doing great numbers these days either.

With the scare of an economic downturn, spending is more cautionary. Any company still standing after the dust settles will have an opportunity to reap the rewards. As a builder of dream entertainment systems / A/V dealer and as a consumer, I know that people in the market for quality, durable goods are still willing to pay more for a superior product. There are just fewer in the market at this time.


I learned the hard way in my finance business, how ad agencies will waste hundreds of thousands of marketing dollars advertising brand versus conveying benefits. Unless your name is Pepsi, Taco Bell or Pampers, marketing needs to concentrate on educating consumers about how your product will solve their problem or give them what they want. Once I learned that, I became unstoppable and I fired my ad agency.

In this day and age of Internet discounting, fewer and fewer dealers are able to educate potential clients or properly demonstrate products. They are either unwilling or it's not cost effective to invest in showrooms or demo product, when forced to compete with other online retailers. For me, I choose to work only with a select, exclusive clientele, usually referred to me. I pick and choose whom I am willing to work and the type of projects, so I typically do not get shopped to death. As a manufacturer, you are in a different position where you must stand out, above the crowd of others who want to take your business away.

Please do not take this as negative criticism because that is not my intent. I greatly admire your products, your company and I hope to see Triad making special speakers twenty years from now. Triad makes a fantastic product, but Triad is not a household name. Small companies do not have the advertising budgets of Pepsi or Taco Bell or B&W. Therefore, it's that much more important to clearly convey the right marketing message. When marketing as a brand, it's hard to get your name past the crowd of B&W's, Focal and cough.....cough.... Boses of the world. It's more important that HT enthusiasts know why Triad is a better choice for them, how Triad will be a good long-term investment and how American made really benefits them. That's more important than advertising your brand which in the end will only benefit your advertising agency. In the right application, you have a superior product to many others. I'd like to see more folks find that out for themselves. Best of Luck!

Regards,
Anthony

Very astute comments, Anthony. Actually, Triad has a small ad budget considering our (moderate) size, and most of our marketing is to CEDIA dealers, not consumers. Triad gets spec'ed into an installation most of the time, with the upscale clients trusting the installer to get them the most appropriate gear and do the best installation. We are not as much a speaker company as a solution company, despite the Dilbertesque ring to that statement. We have gone from totally unknown to; according to the 2008 Inside Track Dealer Survey; having better brand name recognition than Sonance, Speakercraft, Elan, Panamax, Russound, and many other names we all know, finishing 4th out of 18th in the custom installation category. We don't do much retail, so I don't expect us to be as well known as the big box guys, nor am I concerned. We own the niche we are in, and we love our dealers and customers. For us, this is still a blast, and we don't try to drive numbers hard. And we enjoyed double-digit growth again last year while everyone else wanted to put a Glock to their heads.

Just for reference, somewhere between "most" and "almost all" would describe speakers currently being made in China. Triad, Vandersteen, and Theil are the only three I know of who make at least 90% of their stuff in America. There may be others, but most companies try to disguise the fact that they manufacture in China. I think Triad is doing the right thing, and we try as hard as possible to do as much in North America as we can.

Thanks for the valuable comments.

What's disheartening is that folks like myself who are willing to wait and save their nickels in order to purchase quality are running out of options as this Wal-Mart society takes over.

You cant find American made furniture anymore. There's only a few companies still making furniture in North Carolina. It's all being made overseas and brought in on huge container ships.

Two years ago my mom gave my sister and I great Christmas gifts, American made Sligh grandfather clocks, which were made in Michigan.

I got one of the last clocks made by the Sligh company as they could no longer afford to make them as the public was not discerning enough to tell the difference between something hand made in America versus something made by cheap labor in China of inferior materials. The owner of the clock shop that sold my mom the clocks was sick over losing the line because now everything in his shop is nowhere near the quality he once had.

Now, this week, we have Pioneer being forced to quit manufacturing their plasma panels because the market says their product is too expensive, even though those who do their research know it's the pinnacle of all flat panel displays and to them worth every penny.

It's a sad state of affairs to say the least.

Yup, too bad. I owned a 1972 Plymouth Barracuda that looked just like the one in this picture (same color scheme red/orange with black top and white interior). I sold it to a local Plymouth dealer in 1984. He spent about $30,000 restoring it. Too much money to spend for my taste.

That style was dropped in mid 1974 due to "the energy crisis".


Now I am restoring my getting older 1981 Corvette, which is a much better vehicle in every way than the old Cuda.


.

Ah, a thread full of old musclecar gearheads. I love it!

And Mike, I hear you. Pioneer is stopping production of plasma panels, but they are remaining in the plasma TV business, buying panels from Matsushita. While the "cheap at all cost is better" mentality has become more prevalent, some companies continue to cater to folks who actually care about quality. I love to see Aerial, Vandersteen, Theil, and other companies in our business that try to avoid compromise, even if it makes the cost higher. There are people who will pay for quality.

My Dad used to tell me "Hay is always cheaper after it's gone through the horse."

Ah, a barnyard euphemism...

Mike,

I can't agree with you more!

Your new Triads must be loosening up by now. When are you going to post your review?


Regards,
Anthony

Paul,

An economic slowdown will never vastly effect those in the market who demand quality goods, vs. lower price. Those who insist on the best have always been there and always will be.

I see an industry shakeout coming soon, where the less solid companies will no longer be standing after the dust settles. I think TRIAD will soon have a tremendous opportunity to seize more marketshare and take what is rightfully yours. Continue following your vision (making no compromise products), vs. following the crowd and your success will continue.

I know oil, energy and food costs are strangling many, but let's all do the right thing for America's future. We MUST tell China what they can do with all of their inferior and dangerous crap. They're even trying to poison our children with lead and poison our toothpaste with anti-feeze. We also need domestic oil so we can tell the Saudis where to go. When are we all going to wake up and take our country back? We need to buy American or at least buy products from American allies whenever we can.

Cheers!
Anthony

You are a wise man, Sir. I, on the other hand, am just a wiseguy...

Not to engage in China bashing, but it goes deeper than Americans realize. Almost all food additives now come from ingredients sourced from China. Any processed food, supplements, or vitamins contain unknown ingredients from China. We do little here to monitor what is in what we eat, as far as imported whole foods and additives. It'll take, unfortunately, one catastrophe on a large scale to halt this.

I should mention that our four OmniRound products come from China, but with RoHS certification. (No hazardous substances used in the product, including no lead in the solder, no mercury, etc.) Our subwoofer amplifiers also come from China, and are RoHS compliant, but later this year, we will introduce DSP amplifiers designed and manufactured in Canada. I always invite other speaker companies to volunteer where their products are made.

The markets will even out, just as they did with Japan 40 years ago, when goods from Japan were cheap. China and India will gradually raise their prices, and the trade deficit will slow at some point.

Hi Paul,
I was wondering if you have tried the Bryston mono Power Packs for the Triad subs?

Carl

Powered subwoofers always have amplifiers tailored specifically for the speaker and enclosure. Sub amps have limiters, based upon frequency, amplitude, etc., that are speaker specific, and equalization, because a sealed enclosure drops off at a rate of 12 dB/octave below the system resonance. Regardless of how good the amp is; and Bryston is great; the results won't be as good, even if you use sophisticated room correction (which cannot boost low bass enough). I had a dealer once that used Bryston amps for our subs, and let a dozen of our amps build up in their warehouse. They complained that our subs had enough output, but no low bass, and they appeared to be down around 15 dB at 20 Hz. That's because they were. Our amps would have brought that up to -3 dB at 19 Hz.

So the short answer is "no" because they would not work well.

Just finished reading through this thread, as well as many others on the Triad speakers. A few questions (of course)...

The room is a combination family / TV room (hesitate to call it a "Home Theater room, because it is far from optimal for this). It is large, at 24' long and 20' wide. The TV will be a wall-mounted 60-65" Plasma, seating area will be about 8-9' from the TV, and the ceiling is 10'. Sorry, no pictures yet because construction is just commencing. Here is a sketch of the room layout:



I'm looking to do in-wall LCR's, with in-ceiling surrounds. I think a system made up of speakers from the Bronze line will be ample for our needs, but am willing to upgrade to a higher cost solution if this will be unacceptable. The main use will be TV/movies, with music being secondary.

This is for our house in Florida, and I have just sent an email to the local rep as well. For reference purposes, we currently have a relatively simple 5.1 KEF 3005 HT speaker setup in a similar size room in our house in Arizona. This is acceptable, but certainly no wow factor. This setup includes the Onkyo 605 receiver and a Samsung 70" DLP. I want to upgrade the speakers in this house, but my husband doesn't think we need to.

So ... comments on whether I'm crazy to consider the Bronze series, and also would like recommendations for the new receiver - assuming we stay with the Bronze approach.

And, by the way, the reason for in-wall / in-ceiling speakers is to satisfy the HAF!!! I would have canned the whole family room approach and designed this new second story addition as a stand alone Home Theater room, but HE wouldn't have it!

Because of the small home theater venue (within a large room) and your proximity to the front speakers, Bronze LCRs will do a nice job. Silver LCRs would be better, of course, and then there are Silver Monitors or Gold Monitors, but I digress.

The issue may be bass, due to the room size. While fronts can usually be selected according to listener proximity, subs are more of a room size thing. If you plan on using one of ours, I'd do a Gold PowerSub with the 500 watt RackAmp500.

If the acoustics are on the dead side, a pair of InWall Silver/4 Surrounds mounted in the ceiling will work great, if you're doing 5.1.

Any receiver that can handle, say, a 5 ohm load will work fine. A few are Newcastle, Denon, NAD, Integra, h/k, and a few others. If the receiver has a "switch" to allow use with 4 ohm speakers, pass.