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Triad Owner's Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 6133
Gentlemen: I recently came across 4 Silver 4 InWall speakers that I purchased from the insurance company who employs me. They were salvaged after being involved in a water damage claim in Tulsa, OK, and came from a very high end home theater. I also got a Digital Projection Ivision 20HD front projector which is currently in Deerfield Beach, FL, who is trying to repair the main logic board that got a little water on it. I'm hoping for the best as that's a $7,000 unit and I've herad good reviews. The speakers are in perfect shape, and so far I'm throttled by their performance. The only issue that has me a little baffled is that they appear to be designed to be mounted with the low frequency driver mounted on the top, and the two tweeters mounted on the bottom. The Triad press photos all appear to have them turned upside down. Either that, or mine are mounted incorrectly. Since Triads are not designed to be installed by anyone other than a licensed professional, which I am not, it's difficult to get information regarding their correct installation. They have stickers on the "top," marked right and left with an arrow pointing toward the front of the theater, so I think they're correct, but I want to make sure I have them correct before actually mounting them to the studs. Any thoughts? In addition, since I'm limited by space on the back wall, I have no choice but to place the two rear channel speakers only 2" from each other and slightly to the left of center. I've heard that they should be mounted with the arrows pointing toward each other. But since I'm still confused about the correct installation of the RS and LS channels, I don't want to take anything for granted. Please help. Thanks.
post #212 of 6133
Paul - I may have to move my inwall omni's from one room to another, Unfortunatly the room is a different color - any DIY paint tips? I presume i should be using a slightly diluted spray? do i need to sand/primer?

thanks
post #213 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioGdad View Post

Gentlemen: I recently came across 4 Silver 4 InWall speakers that I purchased from the insurance company who employs me. They were salvaged after being involved in a water damage claim in Tulsa, OK, and came from a very high end home theater. I also got a Digital Projection Ivision 20HD front projector which is currently in Deerfield Beach, FL, who is trying to repair the main logic board that got a little water on it. I'm hoping for the best as that's a $7,000 unit and I've herad good reviews. The speakers are in perfect shape, and so far I'm throttled by their performance. The only issue that has me a little baffled is that they appear to be designed to be mounted with the low frequency driver mounted on the top, and the two tweeters mounted on the bottom. The Triad press photos all appear to have them turned upside down. Either that, or mine are mounted incorrectly. Since Triads are not designed to be installed by anyone other than a licensed professional, which I am not, it's difficult to get information regarding their correct installation. They have stickers on the "top," marked right and left with an arrow pointing toward the front of the theater, so I think they're correct, but I want to make sure I have them correct before actually mounting them to the studs. Any thoughts? In addition, since I'm limited by space on the back wall, I have no choice but to place the two rear channel speakers only 2" from each other and slightly to the left of center. I've heard that they should be mounted with the arrows pointing toward each other. But since I'm still confused about the correct installation of the RS and LS channels, I don't want to take anything for granted. Please help. Thanks.

Positioned with "top" on the top and the arrows facing the screen is correct. Which Silvers do you have? It sounds like Silver Surrounds, but which Silver fronts? Silver LCRs? Silver Monitors?
post #214 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by baltik View Post

Paul - I may have to move my inwall omni's from one room to another, Unfortunatly the room is a different color - any DIY paint tips? I presume i should be using a slightly diluted spray? do i need to sand/primer?

thanks

They cannot be painted without spraying them, and if they've been painted once, they cannot be painted again. Unfortunately, you need new grills. The frames you can paint with a brush. You might want to contact your dealer to see what he would charge just for grill inserts, custom painted. I feel your pain. I went through the same thing when I repainted my living room. It won't hurt to try to paint them yourself, but they really need to be paint-free first and then sprayed. Expanded metal doesn't have perforations; it has slits. I tried painting some here, and they looked like crap.
post #215 of 6133
We have painted them with a sprayer. Try to remove existing paint first, bathe in thinner or other solution. Dilute your paint! If it is latex water it down to ~50/50 otherwise it will go on way too thick. Apply a very light coat and let dry, then do a light second coat after the first one has has dried. Don't use primer it will make it too thick.

Bob

PS. It might be easier to buy new grills and have Triad paint them to match.
post #216 of 6133
Got it - thanks guys
post #217 of 6133
All our finishes are water base, so a solvent will do nothing. And if you use a solvent based paint, it will flake off after a while.

Good luck, but I have some experience with this, and it's usually hopeless. It won't hurt for you to try, though.
post #218 of 6133
Thanks for the fast response, Paul. I swear I don't recall seeing the word "top" anywhere on the speakers, but it's probably there. The stickers with the arrows on them had gotten wet and smudged, so it's possible there was more information on them than I was able to read. The binding posts are on the top and there's no disputing the fact that I can see the words "right" and "left" and the arrows clearly do point toward the screen.

Since I've put this theater together with speakers and amps as they come available on my employer's salvage sales, it's a mix of brands, which I know is not ideal. But here's a list of equipment:
Fronts: Atlantic Technology 8200
Center: Aerial Acoustics CC3
Surrounds: 4 Triad Silver 4 In-wall Sourrounds
Sub: HSU VTF-1
Pre/Pro: Outlaw Audio 990
Power Amps:
-Surrounds: ADCOM GFA-2535 (4x65 I believe)
-Fronts: Parasound HCA-1000A (2x125)
-Center: Parasound HCA-1201A (150 mono)

The Outlaw is a recent addition and one that I purchased new. It replaced an older Yamaha AV receiver and made a significant improvement to the entire soundfield.
post #219 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

They cannot be painted without spraying them, and if they've been painted once, they cannot be painted again. Unfortunately, you need new grills. The frames you can paint with a brush. You might want to contact your dealer to see what he would charge just for grill inserts, custom painted. I feel your pain. I went through the same thing when I repainted my living room. It won't hurt to try to paint them yourself, but they really need to be paint-free first and then sprayed. Expanded metal doesn't have perforations; it has slits. I tried painting some here, and they looked like crap.

Sorry just want to clarify - if the grilles are standard triad white (were not custom matched on original order) does that qualify them as unpainted?
post #220 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by baltik View Post

Sorry just want to clarify - if the grilles are standard triad white (were not custom matched on original order) does that qualify them as unpainted?

In order for us to make them black or white, we have to paint them. When we do custom paint, we don't start out with white or black (already painted) grills. They get painted with two coats, and repainting them means four coats, and that seems to streak, clog the slits, and make an uneven pattern, in addition to cutting off a good percentage of the sound.
post #221 of 6133
I am in the process of upgrading my AV system to 5.1 surround and the room is a very open floorplan with a 9' ceiling that flows into the kitchen at the back and has a large passthrough "window" and doorway on one side leading to the living room. Knowing this would limit placement for the rear surrounds, I had the room pre-wired when the house was built to allow for installation of the rears in the ceiling to either side and just behind of the main seating area facing the wall with the TV and AV system. The location of the rears will be about 12' back from the fronts, and the room as about 15' wide (although as I mentioned, it is a very open floorplan).

I just purchased a NAD T775 receiver and have the Era Design 5 speakers for the fronts and center channel. I am considering Triads for the rears but not exactly sure which inceiling speakers would match best and not blow my budget. (The NAD T775 is very nice, but a lot more than the prior NAD amp and tuner I bought 20 years ago. ) I tend to use the system about 50-50 for music listening vs. home theater.

From what I read on the Triad site, it sounds like the Omni Rounds have a directional tweeter which I could aim at the listening area for the rears. With a mix of music and home theater, would the Omni Round 8 (or 6) be a better choice than one of the other speakers with the angled baffles? With the open floorplan, when listening to music, I am more interested in filling the space than sitting on the sofa and just listening.
post #222 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCCaniac View Post

I am in the process of upgrading my AV system to 5.1 surround and the room is a very open floorplan with a 9' ceiling that flows into the kitchen at the back and has a large passthrough "window" and doorway on one side leading to the living room. Knowing this would limit placement for the rear surrounds, I had the room pre-wired when the house was built to allow for installation of the rears in the ceiling to either side and just behind of the main seating area facing the wall with the TV and AV system. The location of the rears will be about 12' back from the fronts, and the room as about 15' wide (although as I mentioned, it is a very open floorplan).

I just purchased a NAD T775 receiver and have the Era Design 5 speakers for the fronts and center channel. I am considering Triads for the rears but not exactly sure which inceiling speakers would match best and not blow my budget. (The NAD T775 is very nice, but a lot more than the prior NAD amp and tuner I bought 20 years ago. ) I tend to use the system about 50-50 for music listening vs. home theater.

From what I read on the Triad site, it sounds like the Omni Rounds have a directional tweeter which I could aim at the listening area for the rears. With a mix of music and home theater, would the Omni Round 8 (or 6) be a better choice than one of the other speakers with the angled baffles? With the open floorplan, when listening to music, I am more interested in filling the space than sitting on the sofa and just listening.

The angled-baffle square-grill InCeiling models are far better, and you could also consider our InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds in the ceiling. I'm not a fan of round ceiling speakers for home theater applications, despite the fact that we sell them and often they're used for surrounds. No, the OmniRounds would not be a better choice, to answer your question, but they would cost about half as much as one of our square ceiling offerings. The OmniRound8 is $300, and the Bronze Surround is $600 each. The InCeiling Silver/8 Omni has recently been redesigned, and it's $550, with an angled baffle.

Thanks for asking.
post #223 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The angled-baffle square-grill InCeiling models are far better, and you could also consider our InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds in the ceiling. I'm not a fan of round ceiling speakers for home theater applications, despite the fact that we sell them and often they're used for surrounds. No, the OmniRounds would not be a better choice, to answer your question, but they would cost about half as much as one of our square ceiling offerings. The OmniRound8 is $300, and the Bronze Surround is $600 each. The InCeiling Silver/8 Omni has recently been redesigned, and it's $550, with an angled baffle.

Thanks for the info, Paul. Just a couple of follow-up questions. On the Triad site, I see the InCeiling Silver/6 Omni and the InCeiling Silver/8 Omni SE, but no (non-SE) Silver/8 Omni. Is the Silver/6 Omni the one that was recently redesigned and $550, or is there another variant that is not on the web site?

Also, do the square grill InCeiling models do as good a job of not letting sound bleed to the upper floor as the OmniRounds? I would assume so, but the description of the OmniRounds specificially mentions that.
post #224 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCCaniac View Post

Thanks for the info, Paul. Just a couple of follow-up questions. On the Triad site, I see the InCeiling Silver/6 Omni and the InCeiling Silver/8 Omni SE, but no (non-SE) Silver/8 Omni. Is the Silver/6 Omni the one that was recently redesigned and $550, or is there another variant that is not on the web site?

There now is an InCeiling Silver/8 Omni ($550) and an InCeiling Silver/8 Omni SE ($900). The redesign was relatively minor, to make the enclosures exactly the same size to allow dealers or customers to upgrade. For some peculiar reason, one speaker got designed a fraction of an inch smaller.

Quote:


Also, do the square grill InCeiling models do as good a job of not letting sound bleed to the upper floor as the OmniRounds? I would assume so, but the description of the OmniRounds specificially mentions that.

The square ceiling models have far better isolation and far better sound quality. Either way, a full, braced, damped enclosure is the only way to reduce back waves from bleeding through floors above them. There's a thread right now dealing with how to kill the back waves, and it isn't possible unless you build a SEALED box or use a back box.
post #225 of 6133
Thanks for clearing that up, Paul.
post #226 of 6133
I just finished installing a 5.1 In wall Silver setup for a customer. I must say I was very very impressed by the detail and how dynamic they were. They also were a lot easier to install than I was expecting.

http://eliteavi.com/eliteavi/index.p...m-home-theater
post #227 of 6133
Are there any issues in using Triad inwall speakers in a false wall? I'd like to use 703 in between the studs and cover with fabric so that I can put bass traps behind the false wall, but I can sheetrock it if it makes a big difference.

Also, would it be a big problem to mount inwall subwoofers midway up the wall so that I can hide them with an AT screen? I'm guessing that it will not excite as many modes, but shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Thanks,
CJ
post #228 of 6133
No problem mounting inwalls into a false wall, as long as it's sturdy enough to hold the speakers solidly.

You are correct that you'll excite fewer room modes with the sub in the middle of a wall, but you'll also get much less bass. I prefer more coupling with the room, and then dealing with the peaks after the fact with acoustical material or EQ.
post #229 of 6133
Paul:

I currently have B & W CWM 800 in walls for L & R, a CWM Cinema for center, and CCM65's for surround. They are powered by a B & K Ref 30 pre/pro and a B & K 125.7 S2 amp.

The speakers are mounted very high on the wall. I have not been happy with the sound of the system as the sound stage seems too "high".

I was looking to move the B & W's to my bedroom and replace them with Triad's. I was looking at the Bronze 8/LCR and the Bronze 4/ Surrounds.

The LCR's are currently 9 1/2 feet high. There is 13 feet between the L & R speaker. The front wall is 16 feet from the wall behind the sofa.

What would your suggestions be? Would the Bronze 8/LCR be OK to mount on the wall versus the ceiling? What is the angle of the speaker? Would the wall placement make the sound stage seem to "low"?

Your or anyone's thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
LL
LL
LL
post #230 of 6133
Thread Starter 
Hey, AVTEXAN.......an AVOKLAHOMAN here.

I certainly understand your problem here. Your soundstage is too high, but given the layout of the room you are and were limited on placement. It looks like your installer did the best they could with the product they had to offer. I probably would have tried to get you to go with the Inceiling Bronze/8 LCR to begin with, though. You room is perfect for that type of installation. However, they might not of been dealers for Triad......Nice looking room BTW.

There is very little you can do to fix the problem without replacing your current speakers. It sounds like you're okay with that, though.

Quote:
Would the Bronze/8 LCR be OK to mount on the wall versus the ceiling?

Hmmm? As a Triad dealer and installer, I've not attempted to do what you are asking. I'll let Paul chime in and assist. I've really never thought about it before. I tend to think the angle would too steep, but really dunno.

In regards to the Inceiling Bronze 8/LCR yet. Have you heard these yet? They are wondeful and I highly recommend them. The very best Inceiling product on the market by a wide margin.

Let's see what Paul says. As an alternative to your current speakers, I think the Inwall Silver/6 LCR would project a wider soundstage and dispersion over your current speakers.
post #231 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

Paul:

I currently have B & W CWM 800 in walls for L & R, a CWM Cinema for center, and CCM65's for surround. They are powered by a B & K Ref 30 pre/pro and a B & K 125.7 S2 amp.

The speakers are mounted very high on the wall. I have not been happy with the sound of the system as the sound stage seems too "high".

I was looking to move the B & W's to my bedroom and replace them with Triad's. I was looking at the Bronze 8/LCR and the Bronze 4/ Surrounds.

The LCR's are currently 9 1/2 feet high. There is 13 feet between the L & R speaker. The front wall is 16 feet from the wall behind the sofa.

What would your suggestions be? Would the Bronze 8/LCR be OK to mount on the wall versus the ceiling? What is the angle of the speaker? Would the wall placement make the sound stage seem to "low"?

Your or anyone's thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

That's a tough room because the acoustics are live, and you have the dreaded "TV above the fireplace" scenario. The faux finish mandates you put replacement speakers where the current ones are. The B&Ws are good speakers, but with the room and the positioning, I wouldn't expect stellar results. The installer did what he could.

You could certainly install three InCeiling Bronze/8 LCRs into the wall, if you have 8" of wall depth, which is unlikely. The speakers have a 45-degree angle to the baffle, and they would put you more on axis at the seating area. The perceived soundstage would be lower, and it would correspond with your screen.

This may be a trivial issue, but you could order the speakers in your wall's base coat, and do the faux paint to get a better look, or we could do a color that would blend in better. The current grills are too light, and they stick out.
post #232 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

No problem mounting inwalls into a false wall, as long as it's sturdy enough to hold the speakers solidly.

You are correct that you'll excite fewer room modes with the sub in the middle of a wall, but you'll also get much less bass. I prefer more coupling with the room, and then dealing with the peaks after the fact with acoustical material or EQ.

Thanks for your quick response.

CJ
post #233 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJO View Post

Thanks for your quick response.

post #234 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

That's a tough room because the acoustics are live, and you have the dreaded "TV above the fireplace" scenario. The faux finish mandates you put replacement speakers where the current ones are. The B&Ws are good speakers, but with the room and the positioning, I wouldn't expect stellar results. The installer did what he could.

You could certainly install three InCeiling Bronze/8 LCRs into the wall, if you have 8" of wall depth, which is unlikely. The speakers have a 45-degree angle to the baffle, and they would put you more on axis at the seating area. The perceived soundstage would be lower, and it would correspond with your screen.

This may be a trivial issue, but you could order the speakers in your wall's base coat, and do the faux paint to get a better look, or we could do a color that would blend in better. The current grills are too light, and they stick out.

It should be easy to replace the Triad's in the same location. The cut out hole for the B & W's is smaller than the Triad's (13.3 x 8.7 versus 13.75 x 13.75). As far as depth goes I have about 4 FEET (see the attached pic).

If I mount them on the wall with a 45 degree angle will the sound field appear to low? If my math is correct the speaker would be "pointing" about 6 feet in front of my rear seating position. I understand there would be some dispersion, but would this be better or worse than what I have now? 60-65 degrees would be perfect.

As far as paint goes I would be fine with a base coat and to faux them. My faux person did that on my current set-up. It actually looks really good but did not come out very well in the pic.

As far as surrounds (pic attached). What would your recommendations be? I am not quite sure on the width that I have. Would something like the Bronze 4/ Surrounds work or would you recommend something else?

Thanks for your and ttowntony's responses.
LL
LL
post #235 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

If I mount them on the wall with a 45 degree angle will the sound field appear to low? If my math is correct the speaker would be "pointing" about 6 feet in front of my rear seating position. I understand there would be some dispersion, but would this be better or worse than what I have now? 60-65 degrees would be perfect.

As far as paint goes I would be fine with a base coat and to faux them. My faux person did that on my current set-up. It actually looks really good but did not come out very well in the pic.

As far as surrounds (pic attached). What would your recommendations be? I am not quite sure on the width that I have. Would something like the Bronze 4/ Surrounds work or would you recommend something else?

If you install the speakers in the wall with the baffle angling down 45 degrees and your last row is at a 60 degree position, that's well within the good usable dispersion pattern of the speaker.

On the surrounds, find out what the stud or joist space is. If you have 12" spacing, none of our square ceiling speakers will fit. Our S-size speakers need 10.75", and a 12" on-center studs are usually 10.5" wide, inside measurement. The size of our drivers and box wall thickness makes it nearly impossible to make anything narrower.
post #236 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

Paul:

I currently have B & W CWM 800 in walls for L & R, a CWM Cinema for center, and CCM65's for surround. They are powered by a B & K Ref 30 pre/pro and a B & K 125.7 S2 amp.

The speakers are mounted very high on the wall. I have not been happy with the sound of the system as the sound stage seems too "high".

I was looking to move the B & W's to my bedroom and replace them with Triad's. I was looking at the Bronze 8/LCR and the Bronze 4/ Surrounds.

The LCR's are currently 9 1/2 feet high. There is 13 feet between the L & R speaker. The front wall is 16 feet from the wall behind the sofa.

What would your suggestions be? Would the Bronze 8/LCR be OK to mount on the wall versus the ceiling? What is the angle of the speaker? Would the wall placement make the sound stage seem to "low"?

Your or anyone's thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


AV Texan,

Looking at your room it appears you have alot of cabinet space. IF you are truely looking to lower your sound stand and get better sound why not have your isntaller take the bnws out and route the speaker cables down into the cabinet. Take one of the doors off on each side and have the inner part covered in grill cloth. A nice pair of In Room In rooms would SOUND very good.

Another thing I would probally do if it was my room is move my plasma up around a foot and put a nice tilt mount braket on it. That would allow for you to tilt it down for better viewing and allow you to put a bronze in room under the TV.

These are just a few things I would personally do.

Where are you located in texas?
post #237 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The angled-baffle square-grill InCeiling models are far better, and you could also consider our InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds in the ceiling.

Paul, one more question I was wondering about. I understand how the square InCeiling Omni models would work in the ceiling as rear surrounds. (As you have mentioned before, just behind the listening area with the angled baffles in toward the listening area.) You suggested the InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds as another option for mounting in the ceiling. With their dipole full range drivers and straight ahead woofer, it is not obvious how they would be positioned in a ceiling mount for best sound.
post #238 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCCaniac View Post

Paul, one more question I was wondering about. I understand how the square InCeiling Omni models would work in the ceiling as rear surrounds. (As you have mentioned before, just behind the listening area with the angled baffles in toward the listening area.) You suggested the InWall Bronze/4 Surrounds as another option for mounting in the ceiling. With their dipole full range drivers and straight ahead woofer, it is not obvious how they would be positioned in a ceiling mount for best sound.

First off, I generally prefer direct-radiating rear surrounds as a first choice. But any dipole mounted in a ceiling should have the front array (in-phase) aimed at the front speakers, with the rear array (out-of-phase) aimed toward the rear of the room; the same as if the speakers were mounted in a wall.
post #239 of 6133
Hi,

I am looking for a single (or possibly a pair) Triad Gold LCR.

I have a mint condition Triad Gold center channel speaker with the factory Bird's Eye Maple finish.

This is the current version of this speaker. It was new in October 2006, purchased here from AVS. I have the original box for shipping. It is in perfect condition.

I am switching to an acoustically transparent screen so I don't need the horizontally configured center channel; I would prefer a center channel identical to my left and right speakers...finish / colour does not matter).

I know it's a long shot, but perhaps someone else is in the opposite situation?

I would trade my center channel speaker straight across for any single Triad Gold LCR, or I would consider a trade / cash deal for a pair of Gold LCRs (current model only please).

Please don't reply with offers for any different speakers, as if I can't find a trade I will simply go ahead and use the speaker I have, mounted vertically on a stand...by the way - does Paul or anyone else have any thoughts about this?

Assuming I keep my existing center channel speaker, would I be better off to mount the center channel horizontally or vertically (with the tweeter at the same height as the L&R speakers, in either case, behind the screen)?

Thanks,

Doug

250-655-1504
post #240 of 6133
hey ttown im from okc was just curious what else you guys carried up there? I might be willing to make a trip to audition them this weekend or maybe next. Let me know pm me some quotes of average pricing or something and let me know store hours and directions. thanks.

Garrett
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