Triad Owner's Thread - Page 87

Just sent the PM. Thanks.

Just an fyi, no amplifier I know doubles it's power from 8 ohms to 4 ohms.

Most amplifier manufacturers under rate the 8 ohm power so that when 4 ohms are called for, the number doubles.

I've found that some amps sound better or worse depending upon the speaker, and the back EMF from that speaker. Some amps sound pretty much the same on any speaker load, but some amps sound different on every speaker. I remember reviews of a famous cube-shaped amplifier when it came out in the '80s. Some of the reviewers liked it, but most did not, either because it was too bright or it was too muted and dull. Apparently, the electromotive feedback of the various speakers used for the reviews changed the response of the amplifier, thus the variety of reviews. One reviewer did call it "an unmitigated horror show," which it was not. (It was a pretty good amp for the money.)

Other than being able to drive a 4 ohm load and having enough grunt, Triad speakers don't seem to make amps react like that. I ran three different amps on my Platinums when I had them, and other than output level, they didn't sound all that different.

Thanks for the positive and negative feedback. Pun intended.

That's true, even with big monoblock monsters. I've seen 200 into 8 ohms, followed by 400 into 4 ohms, followed by 800 watts into 2 ohms. Ifor is correct. It's not really possible in the real world. A lot of that power is sluffed off in the form of heat as the impedance goes down. In a perfect world, a real 200 watts might be 380 into 4 ohms, as it is with my Lyngdorf amps.

Hey, ifor, did the tee shirt arrive? Sorry I only had "L."

Quite often I get requests for pricing, so I thought I would make things simpler by posting a few system prices, in various configurations. Of course, we have InWall versions of all these LCRs, and they cost a few bucks more. The InWall Surrounds are the same price as the OnWall Surrounds. You can always add back channels, but these basic systems are all 5.1 and 5.2. Let me know if this helps, and if you want to see Gold Monitor and Platinum LCR systems...

Systems based upon Gold LCRs
(Substitute InRoom Gold Center at no price difference)

(3) InRoom Gold LCRs
(2) OnWall Silver Surrounds
(1) InRoom Gold DSP Sub (built-in 1,000 watt amp)
$9,650

(3) InRoom Gold LCRs
(2) OnWall Gold Surrounds
(1) InRoom Gold DSP Sub
$11,450

(3) InRoom Gold LCRs
(2) OnWall Gold Surrounds
(2) InRoom Gold DSP Subs
$13,700

Systems based upon Silver LCRs
(3) InRoom Silver LCRs
(2) OnWall Silver Surrounds
(1) Silver OmniSub
$4,600

(3) InRoom Silver LCRs
(2) OnWall Silver Surrounds
(2) Silver OmniSubs
$5,400

(3) InRoom Silver LCRs
(2) OnWall Silver Surrounds
(1) InRoom Silver DSP Sub
$5,450

(3) InRoom Silver LCRs
(2) OnWall Silver Surrounds
(2) InRoom Silver DSP Subs
$7,100

Systems based upon Bronze LCRs
(3) InRoom Bronze LCRs
(2) OnWall Bronze Surrounds
(1) Bronze OmniSub
$3,150

(3) InRoom Bronze LCRs
(2) OnWall Bronze Surrounds
(2) Bronze OmniSubs
$3,800

(3) InRoom Bronze LCRs
(2) OnWall Bronze Surrounds
(1) InRoom Bronze DSP Sub
$3,750

(3) InRoom Bronze LCRs
(2) OnWall Silver Surrounds
(2) InRoom Bronze DSP Subs
$5,400

Edit: All the DSP Subs and LCRs are available in spectacular veneer, which is priced like spectacular, hand-crafted veneer. Veneer matching is at no charge. If you order three LCRs, all three are done from consecutive veneer slices, so your speakers are a true matching set. Pedestals are available for all LCRs listed here. We offer free custom paint of all these products, and the standard finish is a black pebblestone. I can also price out some Mini LCR systems; lower-priced for smaller venues.

Thanks for the list.

What are the dimensions of the Plat baffle wall?

By the way, back in September, I had my contractor install - two pairs of DS300s and two DS400DCs and a HPF800 in my new condo in Manhattan. I have yet to listen to them. The construction is complete now. Hopefully the finishing work will be done by the end of the next month.

For a while I forgot we have speakers in those walls. The only thing I see right now is that HPF-8 in a closet.

We ran speaker wires for subs as well. but have not installed any yet. I do know DS series need a subwoofer. Probably will go with inwall slim subs.

I'll check and see if I have a BaffleWall drawing.

If I hadn't just repainted the entire interior of my house three years ago, I'd have DesignerSeries invisible speakers all over the place, other than in my two theaters. The sound surprisingly good, they're invisible, they have broad dispersion, and they don't "hotspot." For non-critical background music you can run them without a subwoofer, but they sound very nice with a small sub. Don't expect 110 dB output, but they provide very good distributed audio with no speakers visible. And we have not had a warranty claim yet. As long as you use the HPF-8, you'll have no problems.

I just e-mailed you a .PDF of a mechanical drawing.

Thanks. I'm assuming the dimensions are with the LCR - not just the wall. MSRP?

You'll see the .PDF and it'll make sense. The speaker fits inside the BaffleWall.

The BaffleWall is a big, heavy, complex component made out of MDF, acoustical material, and steel. The shipping packaging is epic. Retail on each BaffleWall is $3,000.

The two biggest advantages I see in mounting a Platinum LCR in a BaffleWall are the elimination of the nasty reflection from the wall behind the speaker (inwalls don't have this problem) and the tremendous amount of gain because of the boundary.

Paul,

For your InRoom speakers (Gold Monitors) is there a recommended distance from wall that they should be placed? I always asumed (probably incorrectly) that this wasn't an issue for speakers that did not have rear firing ports in them.

Mike

That's really not a speaker issue; it's a wall issue. The wall behind your front speakers should be treated to absorb down to 100 Hz at least. The idea is to make the wall "disappear." Having a hard wall behind a speaker will cause a reflection corresponding with the waveform that coincides with the distance between the drivers and that wall (and double that distance.) If the speaker is two feet from the wall, that frequency will be higher than if the speaker is three feet from the wall, but the bump in response and cancellations caused by the reflection will still be there. Full acoustical treatment will mitigate the reflection problem. Inwall speakers do not have this problem.

As I stated, the BaffleWall also eliminates this reflection, but it also produces gain the lower you go in frequency. Tony Grimani estimated we were getting as much as 12 dB of gain below 200 Hz, meaning for the same volume, we were using one-quarter the power at those frequencies.

My other conclusion from all of this is some sophisticated scheme of EQ is required in any decent system.

Paul, Why?

Thanks.

Inwall speakers don't have a wall behind them to cause a nasty reflection (although there's still a "floor bump.") Other than the boundary effect, which is a smooth, predictable gain caused by proximity to a wall, the frequency response in an untreated room is better with an inwall than an otherwise identical inroom speaker. This goes against what is erroneously referred to as "conventional wisdom."

The broad acceptance of the factoid that "inwalls suck" comes more from the fact that most of them are cheap, plastic, open-back speakers, and not because they are mounted flush into a wall. The BaffleWall emulates a wall, and adds the good qualities of inwall installation to the Platinum LCR. And unlike mounting a speaker in a real wall, the BaffleWall can be moved around, pulled out, and angled towards the listener. The only two downsides are that it's big and expensive.

Thanks for the explanation.

So inwalls on a false wall needs some kind of treatment.

Are there any differences between a standard LCR and a Cinema Plus LCR? Will a standard LCR fit in a plat baffle?

Ideally, a wall with inwalls mounted in it would be treated. This isn't practical very often, though.


The Platinum LCR is the same animal, but we have made custom InWall versions through our custom department. Here's one we did where there wasn't a lot of depth...

Thanks Paul. I'm speechless. Curious to see the mounting hardware for that :-)

I'm not sure how it mounts, but it would appear the wings on the baffle extend over the 16" on-center wall studs. This would either require cutting out sheetrock, or, for new construction, mounting the speaker into the studs and then drywalling up to the baffle for a custom fit. I assume this installation was used with a fabric wall.

I still know of no high-end speaker company that addresses custom applications like we do. It's challenging fun.

Thinking very hard.

Thanks for your patience with my questions.

I'm happy to answer any questions and help where I can. Do you guys think you're trying my patience? Not at all.

Now get off my lawn, you kids...

OK. you asked for it.

Do you think this amp will drive platinums? If I use both power supplies in tw0 dedicated 15A circuits? Thanks

http://www.crestron.com/resources/pr...1&model=PROAMP

I heard that Crestron amp in the Crestron demo room at CEDIA 2009. And guess what...they used Triad Gold LCRs and four Gold DSP Subs. It cranked to a shocking level.

Gold LCRs are more difficult to drive than Platinum LCRs, which are a slightly tamer load and a bit more sensitive. That amp is perfect for Platinum LCRs. And by "perfect," I mean about as close as you can get in power, stability, and sound quality. I like their processor, too, but, alas, I am a poor peasant...

Paul,

I plan to have in-ceiling bronze LCRs installed in our new construction home, and planned to install the corresponding new construction brackets. If these are put in, would it preclude upgrade in the future to in-ceiling Silver Monitors? If there is even a remote chance of upgrading in the future, is it better to forgo the NCBs and install the speakers as if the ceiling were pre-existing?

Thanks

If you're planning on upgrading, don't use a new construction bracket. The speakers install just fine as a retro installation. That will give you the latitude to install the larger Silver Monitors at a later date. I used NCBs in my office, but mostly to provide a clean template for the sheetrock guys to cut clean holes.

Here's another important consideration: Your ceiling joists MUST run left-to-right (nor front-to-back) if you ever want to install the InCeiling Silver/6 Monitor.

Thanks,

No NCB brackets then. I was thrilled to have my joists running the correct direction to accomodate upgraditis. Silver Monitors are not in the budget now, but should the funds ever arise, I'm all set.

Actually, if your ceiling joists ran the wrong way, I was going to suggest removing them and installing new joists in the right direction...

Paul, what is the retail on Plat sub with 1KW rack amp? Thanks

The InRoom Platinum DSP Sub with the onboard 1,000 watt amp is $2,500 in the standard black finish. We have suspended sales of the sub with the outboard RackAmp1000 due to vendor issues. That version (same performance) was $2,750 and is not available.

On board may not be an option for me based on the current setup.

Either 4 cinema plus silvers or 2 gold subs -

Paul, do you have a drawing of cinema plus silver? what is the retail with rack amp?

Thanks

I'll try to get that information and post it today.

Meanwhile, here's a .PDF of an old article by Tony Grimani which explains the concept of a speaker in a baffle. Tony knows his stuff far better than I do.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/pmi/pdf...fled_again.pdf