Triad Owner's Thread - Page 141

These links are pretty good. The guys at Audioholics (Gene, actually) know the nuts-and-bolts stuff very well, and they're pragmatic. And for the life of me, I don't know why all receivers can't drive a 4 ohm load without limiting current. It might take another $25 in parts. But what do I know.

I understand the in-room speakers will sound much better than the in-wall speakers. I am curious to know how much. For those who have listed to the Triad Silver in-wall vs in-room, what is the difference?

Incorrect. The speakers are essentially the same; InRoom and InWall. By installing the speaker in the wall, you have additional advantages: There is no wall reflection from behind the speaker, and there is substantial gain from the midrange down, which enhances headroom. Inwall speakers (GOOD speakers mounted in a wall) can sound better, all other things being equal.

The misnomer is that "inwalls suck," and that's because people compare a $1,000 inroom speaker to a $100 imported, 2 lb. plastic piece of crap. Make it a fair comparison, and an inwall sounds better. The disadvantages of an inwall are you can't tow them in and you can't move them. We even have a $2,500 optional BaffleWall for our $7,500 Platinum LCR whose purpose is to use the added gain of a wall; as much as 12 dB around 100 Hz. That's a lot.

Use the speaker that is most appropriate for your application, and know that all Triad models within the same family sound almost identical.

Good enough to persuay me to consider inwalls for my theater lol

For music and HT, what kind of receiver or pre/pro and amplifier do you recommend for the in-wall silver LCR. Assume 5.1 or 7.1 system.

Well I'm putting my system together. It'll be a doozie!

I started a thread to show my progress. Hopefully I can help out some people looking to put together a budget system and they'll help me in return with some good advice!

Pretty much going to a be a second-hand Bronze mashup system.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21990011

What kind of cables will I need to connect the Silver Sub to my Onkyo TX-NR3008? The amp has several inputs/outputs. I'm just used to my single coax connections.

Anything that will drive a 6 ohm load and is at least 80 watts per channel will work well. Of course, more power is always better...

Single coax is fine. I see no reason to use balanced inputs on a subwoofer, unless hum and noise is a problem. There is no sonic difference, although some folks imagine there is. They are delusional.

Well, from someone who knows far more about Subwoofers than all of us on this thread, I'm told that balanced XLR can make a difference - as they usually have a much lower ouput impedance than unbalanced RCA. XLR can be as low as 100 ohms, whereas RCA can be as high as 1k-2.2k ohms. So XLR can (but not always) result in better bass performance, especially as subsonic frequencies.

I have never heard or measured a difference. Long runs may benefit, though.

I've never believed there to be any difference other that the benefits you mentioned for long runs, but I'd take the word of Ken Kreisel over anyone when it comes to subwoofers.

As long as Monoprice exists, I can just try both.

Will run coax for now since that's what I have.

If the runs are under 100' and you hear a difference, the difference is imagined. I am saying this with respect, but unless something else is wrong, there will be no difference. Don't hate me!

Depending upon which amp you're using, there may be a level difference if you only use one of the RCA inputs. The quality will be the same, though.

Running a new InRoom Silver with 600w amp along with an Emotiva Ultra 12.

I have an installer in Kansas City who is suggesting a Triad system for a 5.1 system in our hearth room powered by our NAD 755.

We have two issues, we have space for a L and R in wall speakers, but not the center channel speaker in wall. Also, want to be able to listen to good stereo music in the room. Any ideas on what is best suited for the center channel? It appears we need to go to the ceiling due to the fireplace preventing a Center channel speaker? Will this work with the two left and rights built into the wall on each side of the fireplace? For good stereo are the gold overkill and how much do they cost? Does an in wall sub sound as good as a free standing sub and would you go with Triad or Sunfire?

Also, for a 5.1 system, what speakers for the rear? in ceiling?

I've never heard a Triad Subwoofer, but I'd take one over a Sunfire any day.

You don't see me comparing Triad to other brands much at all, and I certainly won't engage in fratricide here. But as long as M&K and Sunfire have been mentioned, I'll make a few observations. Sunfire does an exceptional job of getting high output out of small packages; better than anyone. They're very impressive. Triad's response does have better bandwidth linearity, though, with (generally) much flatter and extended frequency response. Sometimes you need high output and a small footprint.

I sold more M&K than any other salesperson on Earth through the 1980s, and it's strength was performance per dollar. The drivers were inexpensive, the amp modules were cheap, the enclosures were particleboard with wood screws...all stuff Triad stays away from. But M&K subs thumped pretty good and they were reasonably priced. Triad's fit and finish and component cost is a lot higher. Even Triad's cheaper OmniSub line is built better. I will give Ken credit for designing subs that pounded, though, and the S1B satellite would tear your ears off despite it's small size. I've known Ken since the late '70s, and he and all the folks at the old M&K were great people.

Just bought two Butler Audio amps to try out on my Gold Monitors. The 2250 and 3150 should be here early next week. Anyone in here have any experience with Butler Audio?

Is there any difference between the capabilities of the Silver Sub with plate amp vs rack amp?

Currently, the Silver and Gold DSP Subs only come with the onboard PlateAmp 600. Performance and features are the same as the RackAmp version. It's a supplier issue...

Based upon the specs, only the 2250 would be a good match for Gold Monitors, unless you didn't care about output and headroom. I bet they sound suh-weet, though, and I'm interested in your opinion. They'll need tons of ventilation, and probably several fans. Butler lists "nominal power" consumption at 4 ohms at 1,200 watts. I'd love to put these 2-channel amps up against my semi-digital Lyngdorf amps that are almost the same power (and also run hot.)

If you pay shipping and insurance I'll let you borrow the big one. Like to get your opinion on that tube solid state hybrid versus your digital and get some facts based opinion on the matter. I just figured even the smaller one is 225 watts into 4ohms so it's more then my current amp at 150 watts. Plus I would think having the 3 channel and 2 channel amp in separate chassis that your getting a little more then if all 5 channels were in the same chassis.

Thanks, but I'm done fiddling with my gear for a while. Let us know what it sounds like. 225 watts is around 1.5 dB louder...barely audible. And the stereo amp idles at 40 watts, so it'll eat tubes. I'd find out how much a replacement set costs before buying the amp. Does it have an auto-bias function? That would help.

Have you ever run into the Butler Audio group at the shows?

Just checking out those Butler amps. It's a hybrid design. One tube per channel, and yet the model 2250 is rated at 400 watts into 4 ohm! They also state: "The tubes are driven at less than 5% of their maximum rating and thus are not stressed like in a typical tube amplifier. Under normal use, they should not need replacement." and " BK Butler's Tube Driver BLUE technology places the triodes exactly where they should be: DC coupled through the output power devices to the speakers." Hmmm.... maybe I'll go dust off my Kern tube powered wah pedal

Anywayzzzz- Just finished installing my in-wall Gold Monitors a couple of hours ago. I've been testing them with an Onkyo stereo receiver (old school- not an AVR). I'll be powering them with a Parasound amp, and should have it all up and running soon. It was an interesting install with 6" deep speakers in a 4" deep wall. I'll post up some pics soon. Acoustics tomorrow. It's almost a shame to hide them behind an AT screen.

I've always wanted to try these Butler amps out as they are said to have the tube sound and solid state power. The amp I'd want if there was no compromise by my budget is the Bat VK-6200. As much as I love EAD I think the Gold Monitors with their neutral realistic sound might mate well with an amp that leans a hair on the warmer sounding side. Just a theory but I love experimenting, it seems the only way to silence the demons in my head that keep wondering if this or that is better. On another note one thing I'm wondering is how people differ on how much power you need and benefit from. Some people say you need 400-500 watts where some I've talked to when I tell them my room size, speaker sensitivity, and that they're crossed at 80hz are like why do you need that much power. Yet another thing I may need to find out on my own.

Nope, but the product looks very interesting. I'll have to dig into the design philosophy and topology. I don't know if the amps are hybrids or all tubes, and I've never seen an output stage with lots of power that uses a single output device; tube or solid state...although that would totally eliminate crossover distortion found in push-pull outputs. As of now, I haven't a clue about Butler amps other than they draw lots of current out of the wall.

Hey Paul

What's the list for the InWall Silver/4 Omni SE's?
I'm shopping for some value inwalls that are enclosed and was hoping that these would be the least costly in your inventory.

Thanks