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Triad Owner's Thread - Page 143

post #4261 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech5635 View Post

Looking to run a non surround system using two triad 6 gold lcr inwalls. Any idea on a great amp to run them? Parrasoud? Any suggestions without breaking the bank. I'm assuming that a denon avr just won't do them justice? What would you suggest as a processor for eq and so on as incase I want to go to a full surround in the future.

Most any amp that delivers more power into 4 ohms than into 8 ohms will work nicely. The Gold LCR will work with 100 watts, but 200 is better, and 250 and up is desired.

Despite their large size, the Gold LCRs are true LCRs that require a subwoofer and they need to be crossed over at 80 Hz...and set to "small." If Triad had chosen to make them full-range, sensitivity would have been around 3 dB less.
post #4262 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post


Are you trying to match some Triad speakers to Sonance, or are you looking for a comparison? I no longer work for Triad, so I'll go out on a limb and say the difference between the two is like the difference between a piggy bank and a vault. You have a spectacular receiver, and it deserves appropriate speakers, otherwise, you spent too much on it. There are inwalls from Triad that will fit into a 4" stud space, but if you have 6" of space, your options open up (along with your wallet.) Sonance makes very good distributed audio speakers, but they are not known for their home theater products. For inwalls, though, you could do a lot worse than Sonance, which is decent quality.

Hi Paul
Thanks for the reply. Today I ordered the bronze LCR on walls and sides to match as well as 2 silver subs.
I had a demo of the golds and blew me away.
post #4263 of 6133
I've been getting quite a few questions as to why we recommend an 80 Hz crossover with our Gold and Platinum LCRs, and why they don't "go lower." There is no badge of honor for front speakers having more extension, especially when you should all be using subwoofers to handle the frequencies below 80 Hz. If a loudspeaker is designed to be flat at 40 Hz, it will generally be a few dB less sensitive; as many as 4 dB. This is a bad tradeoff, because it translates to at least double the power being needed (for every 3 dB reduction in sensitivity), higher distortion in the speaker because the woofer is now moving more, more power being used by the amplifier to drive the speaker, etc. All this for bragging rights that the speaker "goes lower" when you will never use that range of the speaker, anyway. That's why you have subs.

If you read speaker catalogs (I'm a boring guy) you'll notice that there may be a 15" woofer that is flat to 27 Hz, with sensitivity of 91 dB. If you look at the 96 dB version of that same driver, it may only be flat to 70 Hz. This is anecdotal evidence that higher-sensitivity versions don't have the bass extension. And that doesn't matter, because we don't need bass extension in an LCR. By definition, an LCR is designed to be used in a home theater system with a subwoofer.

And, BTW, the Gold LCR is pretty flat to 45 Hz, but we recommend an 80 Hz crossover for the best performance of the system. The Platinum LCR is flat to 55 Hz or so, but running it that low is unnecessary, and it puts a strain on those 10" Scan-Speak drivers. Why pound the bejabbers out of them when you have multiple and hefty subs?

Specs are subject to interpretation. My bicycle tires can run at 170 psi, but the bike would ride like crap. I run them at 95-105 lbs. Yet I know less experienced riders who brag about running high pressure like it's desirable, which it is not.

I would set any LCR at 80 Hz, unless it was smaller and I wanted more power handling, and then I'd do 100 Hz or as high as 160 Hz.

UPS is making a delivery...new drum set...back later...maybe...
post #4264 of 6133
In addition to everything Paul said above, there is one more reason to use subwoofers and crossovers even with physically "large" speakers like the Plat's and Gold LCR's. That reason is bass optimization. The speakers need to be placed where they image the best and present the proper soundstage. Those placements are *never* the best placements for bass. Separating the bass from the speakers and re-directing it to the subs allows the subs to be placed where they optimally interact with the room and each other. Once that's done, the bass can be EQ'd with room correction to provide flat response.

Here is the response Audyssey XT32 can provide with multiple subs placed around my room, (in this measurement, the subs have an 80 Hz crossover set):



In my system, the Plat's are crossed at 80 Hz and the Silver Monitors in the surround positions are crossed at 100 Hz.

Craig
post #4265 of 6133
Guys,

I had the layout service done by Dennis and they did a great job.

They included Triads in my layout. I have been thinking Emotiva or, if I could find, Definitive Audio In walls from ebay due to budget concerns.

In re-looking at the Triads, what would the Inwall Bronze series run?
post #4266 of 6133
Hi:

We are at the starting point of building a new construction home theater.

We have been told to go with the Triad Platinum series speakers.

The home theater, right now, is scheduled to be 18 feet wide x 26 feet long (this may change as needed for correct acoustics, etc.) x 10 feet high.

We would like a 9.2? system? 9.4?

Recommendations?

post #4267 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Hi:

We are at the starting point of building a new construction home theater.

We have been told to go with the Triad Platinum series speakers.

The home theater, right now, is scheduled to be 18 feet wide x 26 feet long (this may change as needed for correct acoustics, etc.) x 10 feet high.

We would like a 9.2? system? 9.4?

Recommendations?


I would recommend talk to Dennis Erskine.
post #4268 of 6133
I am intending to replace B&W CCM818 LCR in ceiling speakers with in-wall speakers. The speakers will be used in a 15/18 room with 8ft ceiling for HT and music.

In looking at the Triad web site, I see that the product offering includes both LCR and monitor categories for in-wall speakers. Could someone help me to understand what are the differences (in price and quality) between the gold and silver in-wall monitor and LCR offering?

Also, I would like to reuse my existing in-ceiling B&W speakers as surround and surround back. Would they be reasonably matched with the Triad speakers discussed above or would I need to switch out all of the speakers.

I intend to reach out to a rep, but thought a bit of intel would be helpful.

Thank you.
post #4269 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

UPS is making a delivery...new drum set...back later...maybe...

post #4270 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Hi:

We are at the starting point of building a new construction home theater.

We have been told to go with the Triad Platinum series speakers.

The home theater, right now, is scheduled to be 18 feet wide x 26 feet long (this may change as needed for correct acoustics, etc.) x 10 feet high.

We would like a 9.2? system? 9.4?

Recommendations?


Our design service with Dennis Erskine would be a good place to start. If you would like to discuss, shoot us an email.
Reply
Reply
post #4271 of 6133
I just went on the triad website and noticed they dont offer the onwall gold mini monitor anymore. Is there a reason for this? I currently have the on wall bronze LCRs and was considering upgrading to the gold mini monitors.... I guess not now.
post #4272 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by swtguy View Post

I just went on the triad website and noticed they dont offer the onwall gold mini monitor anymore. Is there a reason for this? I currently have the on wall bronze LCRs and was considering upgrading to the gold mini monitors.... I guess not now.

It became a supply problem. The extruded aluminum material became expensive, and we sell only a few pair of OnWall Gold MiniMonitors a month. Triad would have had to buy enough extrusion (minimum order) to last for five years. I have a total of five Gold MiniMonitors, and they're spectacular little speakers.

BTW, the difference between Monitors and LCRs is explained on our home page.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/educati...akertypes.html
post #4273 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

It became a supply problem. The extruded aluminum material became expensive, and we sell only a few pair of OnWall Gold MiniMonitors a month. Triad would have had to buy enough extrusion (minimum order) to last for five years. I have a total of five Gold MiniMonitors, and they're spectacular little speakers.

BTW, the difference between Monitors and LCRs is explained on our home page.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/educati...akertypes.html

(I wrote new copy for this section months ago, but they haven't updated it yet...)
post #4274 of 6133
Hi Paul:

What is the absolute best 9.4 triad home-theater set-up available?

My home theater is new construction and is 18' wide x 26' long x 10' high.

Thanks!
post #4275 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Hi Paul:

What is the absolute best 9.4 triad home-theater set-up available?

My home theater is new construction and is 18' wide x 26' long x 10' high.

Thanks!

That depends upon the space you have to work with, and you need to ask a home theater guy who has spent time on-site and spoken with you. There is no definitive answer, but if price were no real object (within reason) and you had a 5,000 cubic foot room with seating for, say, ten, I'd use an acoustically-transparent screen and three Platinum LCRs. The room has to be acoustically treated, and I wouldn't rule out using Triad BaffleWalls for the LCRs. Subs have to be chosen for the room (as well as their placement) but four Platinum DSP Subs would work...or six Gold DSP Subs...or twelve Silver DSP Subs.

For surrounds, the designer would have to determine if dipoles or direct-radiating would work best. With Platinum LCRs, the direct-radiating surround of choice is the Silver Monitor, and I'd do six. For dipoles, I'd do six Gold Surrounds.

These are general answers, but I hope this helps. Choosing speakers is more than buying them and setting them up in a room, as you well know. There's a lot of design involved.
post #4276 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

It became a supply problem. The extruded aluminum material became expensive, and we sell only a few pair of OnWall Gold MiniMonitors a month. Triad would have had to buy enough extrusion (minimum order) to last for five years. I have a total of five Gold MiniMonitors, and they're spectacular little speakers.

BTW, the difference between Monitors and LCRs is explained on our home page.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/educati...akertypes.html

Ah I see. I love the bronze LCR but was wanting to upgrade to the gmm since it was the only better onwall speaker(as far as I can tell). I guess I might have to look into doing in ceiling instead, although that wouldnt work as well for my application.
post #4277 of 6133
Why not InWall?
post #4278 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbraden32 View Post

Why not InWall?

Studs in the way for the tv location(above the fireplace). Also pretty high off the ground so the onwalls work better because I can angle them slightly down.
post #4279 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The room has to be acoustically treated, and I wouldn't rule out using Triad BaffleWalls for the LCRs.

What do the platinums in bafflewalls give me that having just the floorstanding platinums don't
post #4280 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

That depends upon the space you have to work with, and you need to ask a home theater guy who has spent time on-site and spoken with you. There is no definitive answer, but if price were no real object (within reason) and you had a 5,000 cubic foot room with seating for, say, ten, I'd use an acoustically-transparent screen and three Platinum LCRs. The room has to be acoustically treated, and I wouldn't rule out using Triad BaffleWalls for the LCRs. Subs have to be chosen for the room (as well as their placement) but four Platinum DSP Subs would work...or six Gold DSP Subs...or twelve Silver DSP Subs.

For surrounds, the designer would have to determine if dipoles or direct-radiating would work best. With Platinum LCRs, the direct-radiating surround of choice is the Silver Monitor, and I'd do six. For dipoles, I'd do six Gold Surrounds.

These are general answers, but I hope this helps. Choosing speakers is more than buying them and setting them up in a room, as you well know. There's a lot of design involved.

Paul:

So would this be the "ultimate" in a Triad home theater set-up for a 18' wide x 26 foot long x 10 foot high home theater:

3 Triad CinemaPlus Platinum LCR
6 Triad InWall/OnWall Gold Surrounds
12 Triad CinemaPlus Silver Subs w/RackAmp 500 DSP
3 Triad CinemaPlus Platinum BaffleWalls



Where do the 12 silver subs go



Thanks!
post #4281 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

What do the platinums in bafflewalls give me that having just the floorstanding platinums don't

http://www.triadspeakers.com/pmi/pdf...fled_again.pdf
post #4282 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Paul:

So would this be the "ultimate" in a Triad home theater set-up for a 18' wide x 26 foot long x 10 foot high home theater:

3 Triad CinemaPlus Platinum LCR
6 Triad InWall/OnWall Gold Surrounds
12 Triad CinemaPlus Silver Subs w/RackAmp 500 DSP
3 Triad CinemaPlus Platinum BaffleWalls



Where do the 12 silver subs go



Thanks!

Not Paul, but I'll throw my *opinion* out there anyway.

3 Platinum LCR's behind an acoustically transparent screen is the *best* front soundstage imaginable.

If you are doing front Wides or Heights, you don't want to use dipoles in those positions. You want monopoles. The Silver Monitors are the best choice, assuming another set of Plat's is out of the budget.

For side and rear surrounds, you need to decide whether dipoles or monopoles are the better choice. For me, personally, if I had 18' of width, I would go with monopoles for all surround positions. However, the width of the seating, the importance of the peripheral seats and their proximity to the surrounds could dictate dipoles. In my room, (see link in my signature), I have 16' of width and I use monopole Silver Monitors. I have 1 seat that is ~5' from a side surround, but it is the least used seat. I'm OK with that one seat being compromised.

I will let Paul and others comment on subs. I chose a non-Triad subwoofer solution.

The baffle walls can be considered, but are not "necessary." They will add some extra output, and could potentially reduce frequency response issues, especially the "bounce" off the wall behind the speakers if no baffle is used. However, the Plat's will already be the most powerful part of the "system" and more output may well not be required. In addition, there are other ways to improve FR. I'm not using baffle walls with my Plat's, and I don't feel like I'm missing *anything*!!!

You should put up a diagram of your room, as well as the rest of your plan, (equipment, seating, etc.)

Craig
post #4283 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

What do the platinums in bafflewalls give me that having just the floorstanding platinums don't

The BaffleWall eliminates the reflection (sonically damaging) from the speaker to the wall behind it. When you pull a speaker out or push it closer to the wall, you just move the problem to a different frequency. Most studios have their main monitors flushed in the eliminate this problem. But even a bigger advantage is the gain from the wall; as much as 12 dB in the lower frequencies. This equates to 1/4 the power for the same output. With the proliferation of great digital equalization systems (even on cheap receivers), the system can be calibrated flat, you use less power, you don't blow drivers, the drivers don't work hard...it's all good. The BaffleWalls for Platinum LCRs are $2,500 each.
post #4284 of 6133
post #4285 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Paul:

So would this be the "ultimate" in a Triad home theater set-up for a 18' wide x 26 foot long x 10 foot high home theater:

3 Triad CinemaPlus Platinum LCR
6 Triad InWall/OnWall Gold Surrounds
12 Triad CinemaPlus Silver Subs w/RackAmp 500 DSP
3 Triad CinemaPlus Platinum BaffleWalls



Where do the 12 silver subs go



Thanks!

The nice thing about the Silver DSP Subs is there's a CinemaPlus version that's designed to mount behind a cloth wall. They're only 9" deep. Of course, you could do four Platinum DSP Subs, but they do take up more space due to their depth.
post #4286 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Well, I was following this

http://www.triadspeakers.com/pmi/ced...us_Handout.pdf

You posted that within seconds of me posting my last one. In that picture, you see shallower versions of Triad subs. Note the fabric-covered walls of that theater. It's a small room, and it looks spectacular. Dennis Erskine is really good at designing these systems, BTW.
post #4287 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The nice thing about the Silver DSP Subs is there's a CinemaPlus version that's designed to mount behind a cloth wall. They're only 9" deep. Of course, you could do four Platinum DSP Subs, but they do take up more space due to their depth.

lol, ok, so where do the subs go?

In that handout, it shows 3 subs under each bafflewall - that would make 9 - where do the other 3 go

Or do 3 go on each wall?
LL
post #4288 of 6133
9 subs is alot! Dannngg
post #4289 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

What do the platinums in bafflewalls give me that having just the floorstanding platinums don't

About 6db increase minimum in sensitivity and that is a huge amount.

Added
I see that Paul addressed this already.
Reply
Reply
post #4290 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

lol, ok, so where do the subs go?

In that handout, it shows 3 subs under each bafflewall - that would make 9 - where do the other 3 go

Or do 3 go on each wall?

That's just for display. They wall mount, and where they go depends upon the room design and acoustical engineering. And actually, that was a Platinum LCR used for a center channel. The other nine subs (twelve total) were mounted on the other three walls.
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