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Triad Owner's Thread - Page 150

post #4471 of 5172
8/29/12 at 7:01am


Looks like a ribbon tweeter with a "dispersion lens", (AKA "horn".) Ribbons beam so much that I'm not sure how they would benefit from a horn. Still, it looks like a unique and interesting concept. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it.

Craig
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post #4472 of 5172
8/29/12 at 7:48am
It's might be an air motion transducer, and not a ribbon.
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post #4473 of 5172
8/29/12 at 12:34pm
anyone know the crossover frequencies/slope of the drivers on the In Room Gold LCR? Wanting to setup some EQs in a DataSat RS20i, and need the crossover points for these speakers. Thanks all, website just says 50Hz to 20kHz... not sure on the rest of the drivers, and if it's a 6-12-18-24dB per octave slope.

Stieger
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post #4474 of 5172
8/30/12 at 5:30pm
Take a gander at this beauty heading over to CEDIA

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post #4475 of 5172
8/30/12 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post

Take a gander at this beauty heading over to CEDIA

I should have added this the new Triad CR1 LCR's
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post #4476 of 5172
8/30/12 at 6:52pm
That's gorgeous. It looks like some of the Sonus Faber offerings. Be a shame to hide that behind an AT screen.
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post #4477 of 5172
8/31/12 at 5:21am
I was looking at the Triad InWall Bronze/6 Sub. Does it need the RackAmp as described on the product page? Do any special amps/specs need to be used with the Triad subs?
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post #4478 of 5172
8/31/12 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post

Take a gander at this beauty heading over to CEDIA


that is downright purty... smile.gif
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post #4479 of 5172
8/31/12 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivatech View Post

I was looking at the Triad InWall Bronze/6 Sub. Does it need the RackAmp as described on the product page? Do any special amps/specs need to be used with the Triad subs?

As with any sealed, compact sub, you need the matching amp. The amp has protection and limiting built in specifically for that woofer. And, even more importantly, the amp contains the EQ curve to make the sub flat to 20 Hz. For example, if you use an off-the-shelf amp on a Bronze Sub, bass will roll off at 80 Hz and be down around 24 dB at 20 Hz. All amplified subs use EQ to extend bass response, and the EQ curve is specific to the speaker with which it's being used. We've had some dealers with ADD use a standard amp on our subs, and they always comment, "There's tons of upper bass, but no low bass at all. What did we do wrong??" Well, duh...
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post #4480 of 5172
8/31/12 at 9:27am
Okay, here's what I know about the CR1 so far. It won't be out this year, and beyond that, I know nothing about an introduction date. Pricing is still up in the air, but it appears that in basic black with the stand it will be around $13,500 each. I would expect the veneer to add at least $1,000-$1,500, and the optional veneer to the horn is another $1,000. The speaker is extremely labor-intensive to build, and requires almost a full day on the CNC router. The HF driver is, in fact, based upon the air-motion transformer, which, technically, is still a ribbon. It's a superb driver. The horn enhances midrange output and power handling, and is functional, as it is on the Platinum LCR. The speaker uses two pro 8" drivers for midrange, and a pro 15" driver for mid and upper bass. Pro drivers trade extension for sensitivity, so, despite the 15" driver's size, it's probably 3 dB down at 70 Hz. This is an LCR, though, so the discussion is moot. I don't have any test data, and at this early stage, it would change, anyway. I am told sensitivity is 98 dB, so this is a FLAMETHROWER. Finally, there is a speaker around the corner that will cause me to consider selling my 9-year-old Gold Monitors. Please don't pummel me with questions, because I just told you everything I know, and waterboarding me will just make me lie to make you stop.

Darryl B. Morticome.
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post #4481 of 5172
8/31/12 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Okay, here's what I know about the CR1 so far. It won't be out this year, and beyond that, I know nothing about an introduction date. Pricing is still up in the air, but it appears that in basic black with the stand it will be around $13,500 each. I would expect the veneer to add at least $1,000-$1,500, and the optional veneer to the horn is another $1,000. The speaker is extremely labor-intensive to build, and requires almost a full day on the CNC router. The HF driver is, in fact, based upon the air-motion transformer, which, technically, is still a ribbon. It's a superb driver. The horn enhances midrange output and power handling, and is functional, as it is on the Platinum LCR. The speaker uses two pro 8" drivers for midrange, and a pro 15" driver for mid and upper bass. Pro drivers trade extension for sensitivity, so, despite the 15" driver's size, it's probably 3 dB down at 70 Hz. This is an LCR, though, so the discussion is moot. I don't have any test data, and at this early stage, it would change, anyway. I am told sensitivity is 98 dB, so this is a FLAMETHROWER. Finally, there is a speaker around the corner that will cause me to consider selling my 9-year-old Gold Monitors. Please don't pummel me with questions, because I just told you everything I know, and waterboarding me will just make me lie to make you stop.
Darryl B. Morticome.

Good to see you dropping in Paul. If you want fewer questions, perhaps an avatar that doesn't look like you're still at work would help wink.gif

Looking forward to hearing more about the CR1 and had no idea that Cristiano Ronaldo was endorsing speakers.... (Soccer reference to CR7)
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post #4482 of 5172
8/31/12 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The HF driver is, in fact, based upon the air-motion transformer, which, technically, is still a ribbon.

I stand corrected and informed. Thanks for the update.
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post #4483 of 5172
8/31/12 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

I stand corrected and informed. Thanks for the update.

I wasn't correcting you; some call it a ribbon and some don't. It works like a ribbon, though, as opposed to an electrostatic design. That's a whole other discussion. Here's another teaser, though. There are surrounds for the Cinema Reference system, too. Pics soon...
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post #4484 of 5172
8/31/12 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Good to see you dropping in Paul. If you want fewer questions, perhaps an avatar that doesn't look like you're still at work would help wink.gif
)
Per your suggestion, I have replaced my Serious Speaker Businessman pic with one of me trashing some younger riders mercilessly in a bike race.

To reiterate, I am fully retired, but I'm willing to continue answering questions and helping people who have Triad questions. Be patient, though. It may take a few days (or a week) for me to respond because I'm busy goofing off, and watching my 1st place White Sox. I may refer you to someone else at Triad if what you're asking is beyond my realm, and please don't ask me to design your room from the ground up. You'll have to pay someone to do that. But I love this thread, and this is a great bunch of people, united by an interest in Triad. I'll help as much as I can. Feel free to ask questions and for suggestions pertaining to Triad. I am still Triad Dude.
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post #4485 of 5172
8/31/12 at 12:35pm
ThE Utah White Sox or the ones from Chicago the O's spanked?
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post #4486 of 5172
8/31/12 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Finally, there is a speaker around the corner that will cause me to consider selling my 9-year-old Gold Monitors.

I can't wait to hear more about the 'around the corner speaker'.
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post #4487 of 5172
8/31/12 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Goat View Post

I can't wait to hear more about the 'around the corner speaker'.

And I'll second that..........................................

A more capable Gold Monitor positioned between Gold Monitors and Platinums would completely peak my interest..........................as long as cost is near what I've budgeted for Plats.
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post #4488 of 5172
9/1/12 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

As with any sealed, compact sub, you need the matching amp. The amp has protection and limiting built in specifically for that woofer. And, even more importantly, the amp contains the EQ curve to make the sub flat to 20 Hz. For example, if you use an off-the-shelf amp on a Bronze Sub, bass will roll off at 80 Hz and be down around 24 dB at 20 Hz. All amplified subs use EQ to extend bass response, and the EQ curve is specific to the speaker with which it's being used. We've had some dealers with ADD use a standard amp on our subs, and they always comment, "There's tons of upper bass, but no low bass at all. What did we do wrong??" Well, duh...

Can the RackAmp drive more than one sub? Are the amps available for purchase from subs? I saw a sub for sale 2nd hand at a low price but no amp included. Wondering if it's a good purchase and how I could use it.
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post #4489 of 5172
9/1/12 at 5:38am
The only Triad production subs I know that the rack amp can drive are dual slim-sub 4's. These are not really designed for more than background music though. Triad can custom manufacture Bronze subs with 8 ohm drivers, and two of these subs can be driven by a single rack amp. But there may be an extra charge for this.

The reason I know about this is because I recently had a customer who was thinking about upgrading his Slim Subs to standard Bronze/4 InWall's.
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post #4490 of 5172
9/1/12 at 11:59am
Hey guys,

I am exited as I just ordered Triads for my system. I am getting 3 Gold LCRs, 2 Silver Surrounds, and 2 silver omni subs.
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post #4491 of 5172
9/1/12 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

And I'll second that..........................................
A more capable Gold Monitor positioned between Gold Monitors and Platinums would completely peak my interest..........................as long as cost is near what I've budgeted for Plats.

The new Cinema Reference LCR will probably be $12,500 in basic black, with stand. I imagine the zebrawood finish with the zebrawood horn will be $15,000 or so.

Personally, I'd like to see a Monitor that uses four of the current 7" Scan-Speak Revelator woofers with the Scan-Speak R-29 tweeter. It would be a vertically-aligned tower with the tweeter in the center, and sensitivity could be over 94 dB. I know David Nelson build a few, but I wish he'd finish it and add it to the line. But, if wishes were knishes, I'd be having a Kosher lunch...:rolleyes.gif
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post #4492 of 5172
9/1/12 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivatech View Post

Can the RackAmp drive more than one sub? Are the amps available for purchase from subs? I saw a sub for sale 2nd hand at a low price but no amp included. Wondering if it's a good purchase and how I could use it.

Almost all our sub amps can drive a 4 ohm load, and our woofers are almost all 4 ohms. The amps won't drive a 2 ohm load. They will say "nuh-uh" and shut off. So, to answer your question, no. If you order 8 ohm drivers for the Bronze subs (as Dawn says) you can match two 8 ohm cabinets to a RackAmp 350. Otherwise, noper.
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post #4493 of 5172
9/1/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Weber View Post

Hey guys,
I am exited as I just ordered Triads for my system. I am getting 3 Gold LCRs, 2 Silver Surrounds, and 2 silver omni subs.

That's a spectacular system; congratulations! And despite the low price of the Silver OmniSub, two of them will POUND and keep up with Gold LCRs. Oh, yeah.

Once you get everything installed and calibrated, let us know what you think.
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post #4494 of 5172
9/1/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Looks like a ribbon tweeter with a "dispersion lens", (AKA "horn".) Ribbons beam so much that I'm not sure how they would benefit from a horn. Still, it looks like a unique and interesting concept. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it.
Craig

Ribbons have broad horizontal dispersion (desired) and narrow vertical dispersion (also desired.) The horn augments gain the lower in frequency the ribbon goes, meaning it can be padded down to reduce excursion and distortion and increase power handling. Nothing but good stuff.
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post #4495 of 5172
9/1/12 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Ribbons have broad horizontal dispersion (desired) and narrow vertical dispersion (also desired.) The horn augments gain the lower in frequency the ribbon goes, meaning it can be padded down to reduce excursion and distortion and increase power handling. Nothing but good stuff.

Hi Paul,

My experience with ribbons is a little different. I owned a set of AV911 Strata Mini's that had ribbon midrange and tweeters, and I have a friend with 2 different sets of Legacy speakers that use ribbon midrange and tweeter drivers. The Strata Mini's had a *very* small sweet spot. Admittedly, it was smaller vertically than horizontally, but you still needed to aim them very precisely, and use the "head in a vice" technique to get the best sound. When you did, they were glorious, but move slightly and they changed completely. The Legacy's are a little better, but they still change appreciably even with small off-axis movements.

Don't get me wrong... I *love* the sound of ribbons, especially for 2-channel music. There are few speakers that can rival the smooth, effortless detail of ribbons... in the sweet spot. However, for an HT system with multiple seats, I have reservations about their ability to cover a wide horizontal area. I'm sure the Triad engineers know what they're doing, and the horns may well work exactly as you describe. I certainly hope so. I will reserve judgement on these until I hear them. I wish I were going to be at CEDIA for their introduction.

Craig

PS. The Air Motion Transformer is a "dipole" driver. In the old Heil AMT application, they were mounted in an open cabinet allowing them to radiate front and back. In the current Steinway-Lyngdorf application, they are placed against the wall and the backside wave is bounced off the wall behind the driver. How does Triad deal with the backside wave of the AMT driver in an enclosed cabinet with a horn in front?
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post #4496 of 5172
9/1/12 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Hi Paul,
My experience with ribbons is a little different. I owned a set of AV911 Strata Mini's that had ribbon midrange and tweeters, and I have a friend with 2 different sets of Legacy speakers that use ribbon midrange and tweeter drivers. The Strata Mini's had a *very* small sweet spot. Admittedly, it was smaller vertically than horizontally, but you still needed to aim them very precisely, and use the "head in a vice" technique to get the best sound. When you did, they were glorious, but move slightly and they changed completely. The Legacy's are a little better, but they still change appreciably even with small off-axis movements.
Don't get me wrong... I *love* the sound of ribbons, especially for 2-channel music. There are few speakers that can rival the smooth, effortless detail of ribbons... in the sweet spot. However, for an HT system with multiple seats, I have reservations about their ability to cover a wide horizontal area. I'm sure the Triad engineers know what they're doing, and the horns may well work exactly as you describe. I certainly hope so. I will reserve judgement on these until I hear them. I wish I were going to be at CEDIA for their introduction.
Craig
PS. The Air Motion Transformer is a "dipole" driver. In the old Heil AMT application, they were mounted in an open cabinet allowing them to radiate front and back. In the current Steinway-Lyngdorf application, they are placed against the wall and the backside wave is bounced off the wall behind the driver. How does Triad deal with the backside wave of the AMT driver in an enclosed cabinet with a horn in front?

The air motion transformer has wide dispersion in the horizontal axis but tightly controlled vertical coverage. I sold Apogee ribbons at retail, and they had a small sweet spot. I also experienced the same with Acoustat electrostatics, where you really had to sit motionless or the frequency response changed. This driver has broad horizontal dispersion, otherwise it would not be suitable for multiple seats in a home theater.

I have no idea how David Nelson is handling the back wave of the driver, but I'll ask him. As I said above, I've told you as much as I know about the speaker system. I do know that it is unnecessary to have the back waves from a ribbon to fire backwards into the room. In fact, in most cases, the infinitely-out-of-phase back waves make the sound ethereal, increase the soundstage, and greatly muddy the sound. Multi-channel systems do not benefit from reflections off the wall behind the speaker. IMHO, two-channel systems do not benefit, either, especially when you look at the measurements.
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post #4497 of 5172
9/2/12 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The air motion transformer has wide dispersion in the horizontal axis but tightly controlled vertical coverage. I sold Apogee ribbons at retail, and they had a small sweet spot. I also experienced the same with Acoustat electrostatics, where you really had to sit motionless or the frequency response changed. This driver has broad horizontal dispersion, otherwise it would not be suitable for multiple seats in a home theater.
Good info. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

I have no idea how David Nelson is handling the back wave of the driver, but I'll ask him. As I said above, I've told you as much as I know about the speaker system. I do know that it is unnecessary to have the back waves from a ribbon to fire backwards into the room. In fact, in most cases, the infinitely-out-of-phase back waves make the sound ethereal, increase the soundstage, and greatly muddy the sound. Multi-channel systems do not benefit from reflections off the wall behind the speaker. IMHO, two-channel systems do not benefit, either, especially when you look at the measurements.
Agreed. The Strata Mini's use absorption behind the ribbons to absorb the backwave. It would be interesting to know how that is handled in a close box. I also agree that HT systems don't benefit from dipole/bipole main speakers.

It will be interesting to hear the impressions of these at CEDIA. Hopefully, some Triad members will be attending.

Craig
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post #4498 of 5172
9/2/12 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


It will be interesting to hear the impressions of these at CEDIA. Hopefully, some Triad members will be attending.
Craig

Triad hasn't finalized the design, so there will not be a live demo at CEDIA. Doing a live demo, with shipping, setup, added staff, double the booth space, airfare, etc. can easily add $50,000 to the cost of a show. Triad's not a huge company, and we did our gonzo demo three years ago. Maybe next year when the economy continues to improve. There will be static displays, though.

Craig, I always appreciate your interest and intelligent input.
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post #4499 of 5172
9/2/12 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

That's a spectacular system; congratulations! And despite the low price of the Silver OmniSub, two of them will POUND and keep up with Gold LCRs. Oh, yeah.
Once you get everything installed and calibrated, let us know what you think.

I chose the Omni as I needed active subs-- pre wire dictates LFE run, not speaker wire.
Are Triads Passive Subs much better?-- Should I reconsider?
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post #4500 of 5172
9/2/12 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

The new Cinema Reference LCR will probably be $12,500 in basic black, with stand. I imagine the zebrawood finish with the zebrawood horn will be $15,000 or so.
Personally, I'd like to see a Monitor that uses four of the current 7" Scan-Speak Revelator woofers with the Scan-Speak R-29 tweeter. It would be a vertically-aligned tower with the tweeter in the center, and sensitivity could be over 94 dB. I know David Nelson build a few, but I wish he'd finish it and add it to the line. But, if wishes were knishes, I'd be having a Kosher lunch...:rolleyes.gif

"If he builds it.............they will come."

So.........if David Nelson has built a few, then he should have no problem building three more.................right? Sounds intriguing............

If you use 2/3 more drivers on these, lets call it Gold Monitor Plus...........then 166% the price for Gold Monitors would have me dancing in the streets! You know, Triad does do custom............I can only hope- 94 db sensitivity at 1m would be the ticket.

BTW, I didn't realize you spoke Yiddish! tongue.gif
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