Triad Owner's Thread - Page 154

They were out at the same time. The "SE" (Special Edtion) versions use much more costly drivers and crossovers. The SE tweeters, for example, are the same used in the Silver Monitors, Gold LCRs, and Gold MiniMonitors. The woofers are very similar (same family) as are used in more costly models, too. The SE versions play a bit louder, have flatter frequency response, and generally sound more natural and detailed. The SE versions have been the same since introduction. The regular Omnis all changed to "Sats."

Thanks Paul.

Omni SE mated with Plats? No?

I don't think any of the SE models have enough sensitivity and/or power handling to keep up with Platinum LCRs. When I compared Gold Omni SEs to Gold MiniMonitors in my house, the Gold SE's sensitivity was about a half-dB lower, and it also has less power handling. It sounds exquisite, but I wouldn't count on an Omni or a Sat to do any heavy lifting.

I don't know how I missed this one.....................

Pseudo-futuristic Bauhaus toaster oven? Um..............I can see that.

So..........you don't like my American made heat radiators huh? Figured I could vent the beast and heat the house!

From what I've read, the Plats can handle 1000 watt peaks with RMS of 500...............is my Bauhaus toaster oven to much for Plats? What amp would you suggest Paul............I'm all ears as I have a friend who would love to toast some Apfelstrudel.

Your amp is perfect for Platinums. And there's no such thing as "too much power," not to sound like Tim Allen. The capability is there, but you're not using it unless you turn it up to drain-bamaging levels. At a level where you're using 50 watts, a 1,000 watt amp will be the same volume as a 50 watt amp. It's nice to have reserve capability, though. I rarely use the 505 hp I have on tap in my car, but it's nice to know I can be totally irresponsible if I wish to be.

I tend to like American made amplifiers (and speakers), but there are many good amps from all over the world. I think we're approaching a time when Class D and variations have become so good we may see all the non-EnergyStar power hogs disappear in the next decade. Even though I use semi-digital Lyngdorf amps (Triad was the U.S. distributor), I prefer American Class AB amplifiers. And you can always use them as a hibachi if your broiler breaks...

Has anyone upgraded from Paradigm Studio 100s to Triad In Room Gold LCRs? I"m looking at possibly going from my Studio 100s (V3) to a used set of In Room Gold's...wondering if this would be a significant upgrade?

Home Theater Design Ideas - Speakers.pdf 236k .pdf file I currently have the Bronze/8 LCR and Bronze/4 Surrounds in my Family Room and I like them a lot.

I am in the final planning stages for my HT. The room is 13.5 x 21 x 9. It will be used for 70% movies and 30% music. I am running a B&K Ref 200x2 for the Left and Right and a B&K Ref 200x7 for the rest of the system. The room will be acoustically treated. The subs will be a pair of Paradigm Sub 15's. I am using a 120" wide AT screen.

My questions are as follows:

1) I want to use the Gold LCR's in front. I have space behide the false wall. Should I use in walls behind the false wall but inside the soundproof shell or in rooms on a shelf?

2) Should I use dipoles or direct radiating for the sides? Which models will pair the best with the Gold LCR's?

3) What would be a good fit with the gold LCR's for the rear speakers? There is not a good spot on the back wall because I have (2) racks there. So they would need to be in ceiling.

Thanks in advance for your help!

I would use the InWall Gold/6 version because it will install seamlessly, and it's the same performance as the InRoom version.
Your room is somewhat narrow, and as much as I like direct-radiating surrounds, they may "hotspot" in your situation. Depending upon budget, you could use InWall Gold or Silver Surrounds. The Silver Surround is surprisingly potent, but the Gold is spectacular. I have Silver Surrounds in both my theater systems, BTW. Although you could use another pair of Silver Surrounds in the ceiling, I prefer directional rears. I would look at the InCeiling Silver/6 Sats, which mount with a flush grill, and the angled baffle fires down at the listeners. That's what I use in my main theater. They're $500 each, including custom paint matching.

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/ics6sat.html

if anyone out there in the southern new jersey/southeastern pa area has in-ceiling's (not rounds) in a ht environment and is willing to demo, i'd appreciate it...

If I do the dipoles between the rows it seems that each row will have a set of drivers pointing directly at them. Would a single set of direct-radiating between the rows be better? If I did what would you recomend? Possibly InWall Gold/4 Omni SE?

I have an extra set of amp channels and can add an extra set of sides if this would have any benefits.


Would InCeiling Gold/8 Omni SE be overkill? If I did go with the InWall Gold/4 Omni SE for the sides are these a better match?

Dipoles between two rows work great. You get a diffuse surround field, but still with sharp directional cues. You could do multiple direct-radiating sides, but that's not my recommendation.

There's no need to match the sides to the rears, because the rears are firing into the back of your head and ears, anyway. That's why I like directional speakers in the rear. The InCeiling Gold/8 Omni SE isn't overkill; there's no such thing as overkill; but it does have more clarity than the InCeiling Silver/6 Sat, and it sounds a bit better...for twice the money.

Hi all -

Scanned the thread for a bit, and saw some older posts on this, but want to get some feedback on a potential upgrade

I have a pretty decent setup now (see my sig for link to the room layout and configuration), consisting of 802D's L/R, HTM2D center, 803D Surrounds, and 805D Wide's, along with two JL Audio 113's subs (B&W are all the new generation) Amplification is a McIntosh 7 x 200 amp. Volumetrically, the room is about 4320 cubic square feet (24 x 20 x 9). Room is carpeted, some drapery, homemade 4 foot corner bass traps which doubt are doing much, ceiling untreated (cannot really do much more treatment-wise in the space) Processor is an Integra 80.3, using Audyssey Pro calibration.

While I anticipated more of a movie/music mix in using the space, I am listening to a lot less music lately in this room than before, so I am vaguely toying with the notion of change (in AVS'er speak, this means the change is inevitable )

There is a lot I like about these B&W's but at times, at louder listening volumes, I feel I might be able to get a bit more performance, especially in terms of midrange impact and retaining a tighter soundstage as the heat is turned up. Having said that, I repositioned my mains, changed the toe in , did a new cal over the weekend, and some of this was addressed (I think my mains were a bit too far from the rear wall).

Nonetheless, the notions I am vaguely toying with are Triad Platinums or JTR Noesis across the front. I should have an opportunity to hear a Triad setup later this week (thanks Tony), but doubt I will find the JTR's nearby to listen to.

So my open ended curiously starts with:


I hate this hobby...

thrang,

What subwoofer crossover are you using? IME, a higher crossover point can free up significant amplifier power and allow the whole system to play back louder and cleaner, which is what it sounds like you are trying to achieve. If you're running a lower crossover, the first thing I would suggest you try is a higher crossover. With your subwoofer/speaker configuration, a crossover as high as 120 could be used with minimal risk of subwoofer localization. Audyssey Pro "ranks" the sub crossovers. You could use the highest ranked, higher crossover. I don't use Pro, but I think the filters need to be re-calculated if you change crossover. Check with the Audyssey Pro thread if you want more info: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-in-post-1

If a speaker "upgrade" is inevitable, I can highly recommend the Platinums. If you would like to hear another set after hearing Tony's, you're welcome to visit here too. I haven't heard the JTR Noesis, but they received some pretty good commentary at the recent GTG: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434901/northeast-october-20th-gtg-results-thread I don't think you could go wrong with either speaker.

Craig

Interesting you touch upon this, as the latest calibration picked 40 and 50 as the optimal crossovers around room (40 for the towers and center, and 50 for the 805 wides), which I found interesting. Rather than introduce more variables, I left it that way yesterday to listen for a while. My intent was to raise upward and re-listen.

With Audyssey, my understanding is you can raise the crossovers and not have to re-calibrate, but you cannot lower them without invalidating the EQ. That's the other reasons left the initial recommended crossovers at the lower values.

I appreciate the offer to visit - I may take you up on it if I pursue this further.

I have never heard the B&W 802D's but did have Aerial Model 9's with the big Aerial center and can say that even the older Triad Gold's were better for movies IMHO. I am a really big fan of high efficiency speakers for movies now, they just have a level of dynamics that is generally not possible with audiophile speakers.

I know there are some like fugueness and RMK! that have replaced full Aerial and Revel Ultima set-up's with Seaton Sound and JTR speakers and have been more than happy with the switch. Personally after hearing a couple of different Triad set-ups the Platinum's are on my short list as I have not heard a bad Triad speaker yet.

Thanks - yes I've been following the JTR thread, and Rob (RMK) has already been kind enough to give me some feedback. They are really high efficiency speakers...and early feedback seems extremely positive.

While they cost much less, they aren't terribly "nice" looking, and I do wonder about resale value based on brand awareness. Plus I do need to hear them. Rob me an idea to bounce off of Jeff of JTR regarding that, so I'll see.

I'll preface my comments by saying that I love both Aerial Acoustics Model 9s and the B&W 802s. They're excellent products when used in the appropriate setting...and that is the key. The Aerials have a sensitivity of 90 dB, and they may not play loud enough in a large room, especially if you listen over reference level. Other Aerial speakers have a sensitivity of 85 dB, and they are only for really high-quality, small venues. Both the 802 and Model 9 are full-range speakers, and while that may be desirable for stereo listening, I maintain that an LCR is best for home theater. There's no need for a speaker to be flat to 30 Hz in a theater, especially when you will be using subs, and also because a speaker designed to have bass extension will almost always give up sensitivity to go deeper. The Platinum LCR is 92.5 dB or 94.5 dB (depending upon how it's measured), handles 500 watt peaks, but is down 3 dB at 60 Hz. That was done intentionally.

The B&W 802 is my favorite model of theirs, and I wouldn't hesitate using a pair in a room under 3,000 cubic feet, for two-channel listening. I don't think they have the right dispersion pattern for a multichannel system, being more hemispherically-radiating. Also, they won't play comfortably loud enough for a serious theater, although they're exquisite at moderate levels. I hope I don't sound like I'm "damning with faint praise," because I love the 9s and the 802s, used properly.

A few years ago, Dennis Erskine sent a client to me who already had a pair of 802s for his stereo venue, and a local dealer recommended another set for his dedicated theater. After looking at the detailed theater plans, I could see why Erskine had a problem with the 802s and why he recommended Triad Platinum LCRs. The 802s would have been placed far enough from the first row that it was doubtful the SPL at the seats would reach a maximum of even 105 dB. The room would have overwhelmed this fine speaker. The client ultimately bought Platinum LCRs, and he kept them, even after comparing them to his beloved B&W 802s. He agreed that the accurate, clean, almost-unlimited output of the Platinum LCR was better for his dedicated theater than the B&Ws...as nice as they are.

It's been over a year since I've worked for Triad, and while I am Triad Dude , I am more of a pure "speaker guy." Assuming the speakers you're considering are of good quality; and that includes JTR and Seaton (Mark's a good friend of mine); the key is matching the appropriate speaker to the room and your listening requirements. Maybe it's just me, but an LCR should have limited vertical dispersion, and three of them should be able to hit at least 112 dB at the money seat. Not many speakers can 1) do that, and B) still maintain accuracy. The Platinum LCR is as good at playing loud and still sounding great as anything I've ever encountered.

Platinum is still by far my favorite speaker for home theater. Thrang - my only concern would be fit and finish in your room. All three of my Plat LCR's are behind a 10ft wide 2.35 screen. They are just black boxy speakers but with a cool looking baffle. You may want to consider a custom veneer that will match well in that nice room of yours if you go with them.

Hey guys, got a question. Does anyone have the on wall bronze lcr's that can tell me how they are? I'm currently finishing my basement (no dedicated room, just open) and want to incorporate these (if within budget) plus some rears/sub but I'm having a hard time finding anyone to demo them or best price. I've called Triad (left a message) and emailed. I found one "supposed" dealer but they do not carry them in store. I was deciding between these and the Jamo D600's. I currently run B&W CDM7's in my family room and I am hoping they sound as good or better. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Guys,

Going to go with Triad in-ceiling speakers for the surround speakers in a 7.1 setup in a basement media room. Room is nondedicated, no acoustical treatment etc. Rough size is 22 x 20 x 8. Use will be 80% movies, 20% tv/sports. No multi-channel music.

Budget is flexible but the cheaper of the two prices below is certainly more attractive.

Installer has quoted $2800 for (4) silver/4 surround or $6400 for (4) gold/4 surrounds.

Anyone have practical opinions on the differences between the two? Worth the price for the golds? I'm leaning towards the less expensive of the options, but once these go in, they're staying. I'm not going to bother upgrading them at any point in the foreseeable future.

This is being paired up with some DIY LCR for fronts, and an SV Sound PB-12 Plus sub. Video is Epson 5010 front projector, Oppo BD, etc.

Thoughts?

If it will be a well treated room is dipole still the best choice?

Fronts Placement Question - Gold LCRs - 2.35:1 AT screen 120" wide - Room is 15'x21' - Front of center channel to MLP is 12'

So I'm moving from non-AT to AT screen, from an in-room center to a matching vertical in-wall center (since Paul swears that its a sonic match!). I want to keep my in-room L/R. I'd like them to flank the screen but still hidden behind fabric so that my screen doesn't have to come forward another foot or so towards the MLP. Issue, if I have 12ft from center to MLP, then simply put I should have 12ft between the L/R which should be fine sine the screen is only 10ft wide; however then they get within 1.5 or so of the side walls. I've heard folks say staying off side walls 3.5ft is desired b/c of wavelengths at 80Hz/nulls/etc.. Thoughts?

I'm getting ready to build fabric frames and treat the side walls .. the front wall already has a 2" treatment. Traps are also going to be constructed in the two front corners (around the L/R as req'd).

In an ideal world, all speakers would be mounted well away from boundaries to reduce "SBIR" or Speaker Boundary Interference Response, which is the phenomenon you are referring to. It is basically sound waves reflected off the nearby boundaries that combine with the original waves in a constructive/destructive interference. You can reduce SBIR by treating the wall with absorption down to the lowest SBIR frequency. However, that usually requires very thick absorption material. For example, an 80 Hz soundwave has a wavelength of 14.66 ft. It's 1/4 wavelength, (the "peak" positive deflection, if you will), is 3.67 ft. IOW, to absorb an 80 Hz wave, you need absorption that is over three and half feet thick. Alternatively, it needs to be 6" thick and placed 3.5 ft from the reflecting boundary. That is simply not happening in most rooms.

The best most of us can do is to ensure that speakers are placed at dissimilar distances from the closest boundaries. This spreads out the reflections and keeps them from accumulating at specific frequencies. You *don't* want the speaker to be 2' from the side wall, 2' from the rear wall AND 2' from the floor. All those reflections will "gang up" on each other and cause amplification of the SBIR. If you can place the speakers 1' from the side wall, 3' from the rear wall and then 2' off the floor, you'll spread the reflections out and they will even out somewhat. Then, run Audyssey XT32 or some other high-end room correction on the resulting soundwaves. You should end up with pretty even FR across multiple seats.

Craig

Thanks Craig for the advice. I have a denon 4311 (XT32) so I have that covered. Hadn't thought about the tri-fecta .. but makes sense. I'll work up some dimensional drawings and see what I'm left with.

If your front wall is treated you should move your speakers close to the front wall. SBIR is a function of distance from the wall to a speaker or sub. The further away from a wall the speaker or sub is placed the lower the frequency SBIR will occur. You see 3.5 feet mentioned a lot because that is the 1/4 wave length for 80hz. So if the sub is placed closer than 3.5' to a wall it won't have an SBIR problem because it is not playing higher frequencies. If a speaker is placed greater than 3.5 feet it won't have an SBIR problem because it doesn't play lower frequencies. A different crossover would change this distance. A lower crossover the speaker would need to be placed even further from a wall and a higher crossover it could be placed closer. But, there are more than one way to skin a cat.

Knowing that if a speaker placed closer to a wall the SBIR frequency will be higher, we can move the speaker closer until we raise the SBIR frequency high enough that it can be absorbed with acoustic treatment. At 3.5 feet or greater you would need quite thick acoustic treatments as Craig stated. But, if we move the speaker less than 1 foot from the wall then the frequency will be high enough to fix the SBIR problem with acoustic treatments. Make sure your treatments are rated down to the frequency you are trying to absorb and get your speakers to within that distance.

Did you ever make any progress on this?

One more comment I would make is that the JTR speakers use a compression driver tweeter. While I have not heard the Noesis speaker, in general, I find compression drivers to get a little harsh and brittle at higher SPL's. The silk dome tweeter in the Platinums, mated with their dispersion lens, (AKA "horn"), is a smoother sounding tweeter at high SPLs, at least to my ear, than most compression driver tweeters that I've heard. It may be that the CD tweeter Jeff is using in the Noesis is a much higher quality driver than some of the other CD's I've heard.

Also, the Platinum's dispersion lens is designed to limit vertical dispersion while providing wide horizontal dispersion. This reduces floor and ceiling reflections, while providing wide coverage for multiple seats. For multi-seat HT's, this is a big benefit. The Noesis horn is a square, 70x70 horn and it, (likely), won't provide these same benefits.






I am using the Silver Monitors in the Wide and Surround positions. They are a great timbre match for the Plat's. They use the same tweeter, (without the lens), and the same midrange drivers. They are less than 1/3 the price of the Plat's and they work exceptionally well.
The JL's should work *very* well with the Plat's, especially with Audyssey doing the blending. Nonetheless, I always find that Audyssey needs some adjustment of the subwoofer Distance setting(s), especially for multiple subs. Audyssey Pro usually does a better job with this, so it may not be an issue for you.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Craig

Hi Craig,

In the interest of accuracy , the Noesis horn (although it appears square) has a 60/40 (horizontal/vertical) dispersion pattern and so has a similar benifit to the plats in that regard. Also, it is rotatable so can be setup for either horizontal or vertical placement of the center channel. The Noesis compression driver is a considerable upgrade beyond what you will find in other CD based commercial offerings. I have never heard the Plats (only the Gold In-Room Monitors) and a Plats comparison to the Noesis would be very interesting. I hope that can happen at some point as I know these speakers represent the very best that is available for HT and MC music listening.

Paul or anyone else,

Why did Triad go away with the horn on the other Triad LCRs like the Old Classic Golds had an Plats still have?

Hi Craig

No, no progress yet - haven't hooked up with Tony to hear his, but our moons may align Friday -

Thanks