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Triad Owner's Thread - Page 160

post #4771 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Those Linn speakers are really great for 2-channel at a moderate level, but Gold LCRs; at double the power handling and at least 2 dB more sensitivity; will be more dynamic, they'll never sound strained, and they'll stay smooth and uncompressed beyond ridiculous playback levels. Your own suggestion of using four InCeiling Mini/8 LCRs is a good one. Forget about Triad's or anyone else's round ceiling speakers. The rest of your stuff is too good. Your ADA amplifier is a beast. We love ADA at Triad, and one of the best demos ever was at the CEDIA New Technology demo a few years ago where they used Gold LCRs with big ADA electronics. It was jaw-dropping.

Please talk to a video expert before you do a screen that big if you're going to sit closer than 20', which you probably are. The left and right will be out of your direct vision, and you'll give up brightness, detail, contrast, and black level. You probably want a better, smaller picture. Ten feet back from a 13' screen is way too close. To test what I'm saying, go to a theater and sit in the front row. Then move to the center of the theater. If you still prefer the overwhelming and blurrier big picture, then ignore my advice. There is no right or wrong; there is only what you prefer.

Paul,

Thanks for the advice. Neither the screen size or seating distance is set in stone. Since I'm only doing one row, seating could be moved back as far as about 17.5 feet if the screen was overwhelming. My other thought on surrounds is just going with a 5.2 system with the inwall golds up front and the Bronze incorner satellites in the back. I've heard many systems in all configurations and IMO two powerful surrounds in the back corners like at the real IMAX theaters seems just as satisfying to me as having four back there. I'm sure many will disagree, but that prevents four big holes being cut out of the ceiling.

Matt
post #4772 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Paul,

Thanks for the advice. Neither the screen size or seating distance is set in stone. Since I'm only doing one row, seating could be moved back as far as about 17.5 feet if the screen was overwhelming. My other thought on surrounds is just going with a 5.2 system with the inwall golds up front and the Bronze incorner satellites in the back. I've heard many systems in all configurations and IMO two powerful surrounds in the back corners like at the real IMAX theaters seems just as satisfying to me as having four back there. I'm sure many will disagree, but that prevents four big holes being cut out of the ceiling.

Matt

2 cannot achieve what 4 can do biggrin.gif Plus you don't need that big and powerful of surrounds since you can use bass management.
post #4773 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Paul,

Thanks for the advice. Neither the screen size or seating distance is set in stone. Since I'm only doing one row, seating could be moved back as far as about 17.5 feet if the screen was overwhelming. My other thought on surrounds is just going with a 5.2 system with the inwall golds up front and the Bronze incorner satellites in the back. I've heard many systems in all configurations and IMO two powerful surrounds in the back corners like at the real IMAX theaters seems just as satisfying to me as having four back there. I'm sure many will disagree, but that prevents four big holes being cut out of the ceiling.

Matt

Bronze Sats won't have the output to keep up with Gold LCRs. I second the opinion of doing two pair of surrounds. And in most rooms, there should be side (main) surrounds, as well as rear surrounds.
post #4774 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Bronze Sats won't have the output to keep up with Gold LCRs. I second the opinion of doing two pair of surrounds. And in most rooms, there should be side (main) surrounds, as well as rear surrounds.


Sure. I want to do it right the first time. How about Inceiling Bronze/8 LCR's for back surrounds and inwall Bronze/4 LCR's for side surrounds? Would that be a powerful enough setup to keep up with the Golds up front? The FURTHEST distance that any surround speaker would be from a listening position is 8 feet.
post #4775 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Sure. I want to do it right the first time. How about Inceiling Bronze/8 LCR's for back surrounds and inwall Bronze/4 LCR's for side surrounds? Would that be a powerful enough setup to keep up with the Golds up front? The FURTHEST distance that any surround speaker would be from a listening position is 8 feet.

You could use Bronze LCRs for surrounds, but there's a reason they're called "LCRs." Their dispersion pattern is narrow, and they only work well as surrounds in specific applications. I would consider four InWall Silver/4 Surrounds due to the proximity to the seating. And if your room will have any acoustical treatment (a must, in my opinion), dipoles will work better with more even coverage. Are you adverse to dipoles?
post #4776 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

You could use Bronze LCRs for surrounds, but there's a reason they're called "LCRs." Their dispersion pattern is narrow, and they only work well as surrounds in specific applications. I would consider four InWall Silver/4 Surrounds due to the proximity to the seating. And if your room will have any acoustical treatment (a must, in my opinion), dipoles will work better with more even coverage. Are you adverse to dipoles?


I was trying to stick with direct radiating surrounds due to Trinnov. I would MUCH prefer to have a nice, diffuse surround sound field if possible with dipoles, but am concerned it may not work. If you read through the Sherwood/Trinnov setup threads, people have had to aim one of the tweeters at the mic. to get a reading. I'm just worried that with multiple high frequency transducers I will have a problem getting a proper calibration. Maybe I'm wrong though? Haven't you at Triad had setups at Cedia that incorporated Trinnov? If you think I can get dipoles to work with my setup, then thats the direction I would like to go. I just want to be sure before holes get cut in the walls and ceiling.

Thanks again for all your help,
Matt
post #4777 of 6133
Paul, Tony and Craig. What Pre/Pro and Power Amps or AVR are you using with the Platinums?

I ask this for if i upgrade to the Plats maybe i might need to upgrade my Pre/Pro and or power Amps to make sure that i am getting the best out of them.

cheers

Ian
post #4778 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

I was trying to stick with direct radiating surrounds due to Trinnov. I would MUCH prefer to have a nice, diffuse surround sound field if possible with dipoles, but am concerned it may not work. If you read through the Sherwood/Trinnov setup threads, people have had to aim one of the tweeters at the mic. to get a reading. I'm just worried that with multiple high frequency transducers I will have a problem getting a proper calibration. Maybe I'm wrong though? Haven't you at Triad had setups at Cedia that incorporated Trinnov? If you think I can get dipoles to work with my setup, then thats the direction I would like to go. I just want to be sure before holes get cut in the walls and ceiling.

Thanks again for all your help,
Matt

I've heard a few demos with ADA/Triad and Newcastle/Triad that sounded great. The big demo with ADA used dipole surrounds (Gold Surrounds, actually), and the rears and sides sounded great. I think the problem with dipoles and Trinnov may be that dipole tweeters are off-axis, and the program probably (incorrectly) tries to EQ them up to "flat," which would entail an enormous treble boost. There should be a way of calibrating the rear level without employing EQ with dipoles. Maybe one of the other regulars knows more about this. I wouldn't allow a technology, no matter how good, completely determine my setup to the possible detriment of the results. Direct-radiating speakers that close to some listeners will "hot-spot" and they'll be too loud and directional, especially in a treated room. Dipoles are far from perfect, but they work great in the real world. Direct-radiating speakers work in more live acoustics, and when there aren't many seats.
Edited by Paul Scarpelli - 2/25/13 at 12:49pm
post #4779 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

I've heard a few demos with ADA/Triad and Newcastle/Triad that sounded great. The big demo with ADA used dipole surrounds (Gold Surrounds, actually), and the rears and sides sounded great. I think the problem with dipoles and Trinnov may be that dipole tweeters are off-axis, and the program probably (incorrectly) tries to EQ them up to "flat," which would entail an enormous treble boost. There should be a way of calibrating the rear level without employing EQ with dipoles. Maybe one of the other regulars knows more about this. I wouldn't allow a technology, no matter how good, completely determine my setup to the possible detriment of the results. Direct-radiating speakers that close to some listeners will "hot-spot" and they'll be too loud and directional, especially in a treated room. Dipoles are far from perfect, but they work great in the real world. Direct-radiating speakers work in more live acoustics, and when there aren't many seats.

Paul-

Everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. No reason to skimp on an installation to work around what was to me a $600 receiver. I have been happy with the Trinnov with my Linn speakers and would like to attempt to use it, but if I have to ditch it, no worries. I may, however, pay Curt Hoyt with Trinnov to do some consulting and I'm sure he would know how to make it work with dipoles.

That being said, would I be losing much in my 19*17 room going with the silver inwall surrounds instead of the golds? The price difference is significant as you know. For surround backs I guess I would be deciding between inceiling silver monitors, inceiling bronze monitors or inceiling bronze lcr's. Thoughts?
post #4780 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian13 View Post

Paul, Tony and Craig. What Pre/Pro and Power Amps or AVR are you using with the Platinums?

I ask this for if i upgrade to the Plats maybe i might need to upgrade my Pre/Pro and or power Amps to make sure that i am getting the best out of them.

cheers

Ian

I'm in prepro transition right now. I have a Bryston SP3 on the way and I'm also looking a the Datasat RS20i. As for amps, Classe (newest version), ADA and Bryston amps work very well with the Plats in my experience.
post #4781 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Paul-

Everything you're saying makes a lot of sense. No reason to skimp on an installation to work around what was to me a $600 receiver. I have been happy with the Trinnov with my Linn speakers and would like to attempt to use it, but if I have to ditch it, no worries. I may, however, pay Curt Hoyt with Trinnov to do some consulting and I'm sure he would know how to make it work with dipoles.

That being said, would I be losing much in my 19*17 room going with the silver inwall surrounds instead of the golds? The price difference is significant as you know. For surround backs I guess I would be deciding between inceiling silver monitors, inceiling bronze monitors or inceiling bronze lcr's. Thoughts?

If you can get someone from Trinnov to consult, that might be good. If you get someone who is predisposed to hating dipoles, that may not serve you well. Direct-radiating surrounds can work very well, but sometimes dipoles work better for a larger seating area. Gary Reber and Floyd Toole hate dipoles. Dennis Erskine and Tony Grimani love them. Diff'rent strokes.

Will your rear speakers mount in the ceiling or in the wall? Also, there is no Bronze Monitor.
post #4782 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian13 View Post

Paul, Tony and Craig. What Pre/Pro and Power Amps or AVR are you using with the Platinums?

I ask this for if i upgrade to the Plats maybe i might need to upgrade my Pre/Pro and or power Amps to make sure that i am getting the best out of them.

cheers

Ian
I'm using an Integra 80.2 pre/pro with Audyssey XT32 and an Earthquake Cinenova Grande power amp, (610 wpc into 4 Ohms.) The combo sounds fabulous. Yesterday, I had a few forum members over to check out the system. A couple of them posted about it here:

Mike Duke's comments: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1349395/craig-johns-theater/270#post_23007895
BrolicBeadt's comments: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1349395/craig-johns-theater/270#post_23008065

I was truly humbled by their comments, but it just shows what the Plat's can do.

Craig
post #4783 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

If you can get someone from Trinnov to consult, that might be good. If you get someone who is predisposed to hating dipoles, that may not serve you well. Direct-radiating surrounds can work very well, but sometimes dipoles work better for a larger seating area. Gary Reber and Floyd Toole hate dipoles. Dennis Erskine and Tony Grimani love them. Diff'rent strokes.

Will your rear speakers mount in the ceiling or in the wall? Also, there is no Bronze Monitor.

Rear surrounds have to be in the ceiling so it looks like I would have to decide beween the Silver6sattelite and the inceiling bronze8LCR.

For side surrounds, any thoughts on how big of a performance jump I will get going from the Silvers to the Golds in my smallish room?
post #4784 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFLUGSTA View Post

Rear surrounds have to be in the ceiling so it looks like I would have to decide beween the Silver6sattelite and the inceiling bronze8LCR.

For side surrounds, any thoughts on how big of a performance jump I will get going from the Silvers to the Golds in my smallish room?

Unless you like to calibrate surrounds way too hot, Silver Surrounds will do a nice job. The Gold Surrounds are spectacular, but the front soundstage is most important. If you're going InCeiling for the rears, and you have at least 8" of joist depth, the InCeiling Bronze/8 LCRs will work very well. Rear surrounds (my opinion) can be more directional. The InCeiling Silver/6 Sats would be an okay second choice, but the LCRs have more output and headroom.
post #4785 of 6133
With the Gold surrounds Paul are the tweeters supposed to be towards the ceiling or floor?
post #4786 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I'm using an Integra 80.2 pre/pro with Audyssey XT32 and an Earthquake Cinenova Grande power amp, (610 wpc into 4 Ohms.) The combo sounds fabulous. Yesterday, I had a few forum members over to check out the system. A couple of them posted about it here:

Mike Duke's comments: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1349395/craig-johns-theater/270#post_23007895
BrolicBeadt's comments: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1349395/craig-johns-theater/270#post_23008065

I was truly humbled by their comments, but it just shows what the Plat's can do.

Craig

Very impressive, and nice comments. Explaining what Platinums sound like is like trying to explain what chocolate tastes like to someone who's never had it. They're actually a bargain at $7,500 each new. Credit also goes to Craig for what is, apparently, a superb setup and calibration. I hope I get to see/hear it someday.

BTW, I also have the Integra 80.2, and it does a very nice job. The sound is very neutral, which is the definition of "high fidelity." wink.gif
post #4787 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Very impressive, and nice comments. Explaining what Platinums sound like is like trying to explain what chocolate tastes like to someone who's never had it. They're actually a bargain at $7,500 each new. Credit also goes to Craig for what is, apparently, a superb setup and calibration. I hope I get to see/hear it someday.
Thanks, Paul! You're welcome to visit any time, (but leave that black stocking cap at home.) eek.gif That's scary! biggrin.gif
post #4788 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Unless you like to calibrate surrounds way too hot, Silver Surrounds will do a nice job. The Gold Surrounds are spectacular, but the front soundstage is most important. If you're going InCeiling for the rears, and you have at least 8" of joist depth, the InCeiling Bronze/8 LCRs will work very well. Rear surrounds (my opinion) can be more directional. The InCeiling Silver/6 Sats would be an okay second choice, but the LCRs have more output and headroom.

Thanks for the advice.
post #4789 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

With the Gold surrounds Paul are the tweeters supposed to be towards the ceiling or floor?

After all these years, I am still not clear on this. The speakers are labeled left and right, and it doesn't really matter much. I'd put the tweeters on top if the speaker has to be mounted lower. The only problem with mounting them "wrong" is the front array will be out of phase with the LCRs, causing a slight loss of upper bass.
post #4790 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

After all these years, I am still not clear on this. The speakers are labeled left and right, and it doesn't really matter much. I'd put the tweeters on top if the speaker has to be mounted lower. The only problem with mounting them "wrong" is the front array will be out of phase with the LCRs, causing a slight loss of upper bass.

I think it hilarious that Triad has it pictured both ways on the same page (which aids in the confusion) ... http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/iwg4sur.html
post #4791 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauleyc View Post

I think it hilarious that Triad has it pictured both ways on the same page (which aids in the confusion) ... http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/iwg4sur.html

post #4792 of 6133
The correct way to mount Gold Surrounds is high on the side walls, with the rears at the same height on the back wall, if possible, with the tweeters on the bottom. If they have to be mounted low, turn them upside down and reverse their left/right position.

post #4793 of 6133
Paul,

That's how I've always done it -- based on height.

Here's another question.

What if the surround is mounted in the ceiling? I've tried it both ways and I like it best with the tweeters facing out/forward.
post #4794 of 6133
post #4795 of 6133
Hi all. I'm new to the thread. I'm about to become a Triad owner and I had a couple of questions about recommended setups.

I have a 17' x 12.5' TV room that is being renovated. I am planning to put silver in-wall LCRs across the front on one of the short walls, above the equipment cabinet and below the plasma TV. My question is about the surrounds. I have to put them on shelves (we're having built-in shelves on the two long walls of the room). I'm not sure which speaker to use there. I am currently leaning toward silver Omni SE's. The silver mini-monitors seem like overkill and none of the surrounds (with the angled tweeters) really look like they were designed to be used in a shelf. If I can get approval (eek.gif) to put the couch far enough forward into the room, I may also put another set of speakers in the back corners. That wall is almost all taken up by two windows so my only option is 1 speaker right behind the couch and between the windows or one of the satellite corners in each corner. I'm leaning toward the corners since the 6.1 with the rear right behind you seems frowned upon.

From a previous system I have a Velodyne DD-12 so that will be handling sub duties (hopefully from someplace near the fronts). I may add a 2nd later depending on how the setup works out with 1.

Does any one have any thoughts or suggestions about that plan? Ideas about the side surrounds are particularly welcome. I'm a bit lost.

Thanks!

Adam
post #4796 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamCS View Post

Hi all. I'm new to the thread. I'm about to become a Triad owner and I had a couple of questions about recommended setups.

I have a 17' x 12.5' TV room that is being renovated. I am planning to put silver in-wall LCRs across the front on one of the short walls, above the equipment cabinet and below the plasma TV. My question is about the surrounds. I have to put them on shelves (we're having built-in shelves on the two long walls of the room). I'm not sure which speaker to use there. I am currently leaning toward silver Omni SE's. The silver mini-monitors seem like overkill and none of the surrounds (with the angled tweeters) really look like they were designed to be used in a shelf. If I can get approval (eek.gif) to put the couch far enough forward into the room, I may also put another set of speakers in the back corners. That wall is almost all taken up by two windows so my only option is 1 speaker right behind the couch and between the windows or one of the satellite corners in each corner. I'm leaning toward the corners since the 6.1 with the rear right behind you seems frowned upon.

From a previous system I have a Velodyne DD-12 so that will be handling sub duties (hopefully from someplace near the fronts). I may add a 2nd later depending on how the setup works out with 1.

Does any one have any thoughts or suggestions about that plan? Ideas about the side surrounds are particularly welcome. I'm a bit lost.

Thanks!

Adam

Because your room is rather narrow, I would consider OnWall Silver Surrounds, which can be placed on a shelf. Silver Sats would be a good choice if you want direct-radiating surrounds, but proximity to a listener will prove distracting. And for the price of Silver Sats, you could do two pair and put one pair in back. Try to position the DD-12 near the front speakers, and avoid sitting dead-center in the room. That's where there is no bass.
post #4797 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Because your room is rather narrow, I would consider OnWall Silver Surrounds, which can be placed on a shelf. Silver Sats would be a good choice if you want direct-radiating surrounds, but proximity to a listener will prove distracting. And for the price of Silver Sats, you could do two pair and put one pair in back. Try to position the DD-12 near the front speakers, and avoid sitting dead-center in the room. That's where there is no bass.

Thanks so much for replying! I can do that since the shelves haven't been built yet so I can make one wide enough to accommodate that. It doesn't matter that they may have books or whatever right next to them and the shelf top and bottom above and below? I figured they were designed to fire into a more open space and that's why I was looking at the bookshelf-type speakers. Would you mount them at ear height or a shelf or two above? Any other mounting advice in that scenario?

I don't think I have space for the surrounds at the rear, but I will check. The shelves go all the way back and the windows take up most of the wall.

Also, I'm considering a set of the bookshelf speakers for another room (they will be too small but they are for background music and there are heavy WAF issues in that room). What are the differences between the silver mini-monitors, the Omni SEs and the silver sats?

Thanks!

Adam
post #4798 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamCS View Post

Thanks so much for replying! I can do that since the shelves haven't been built yet so I can make one wide enough to accommodate that. It doesn't matter that they may have books or whatever right next to them and the shelf top and bottom above and below? I figured they were designed to fire into a more open space and that's why I was looking at the bookshelf-type speakers. Would you mount them at ear height or a shelf or two above? Any other mounting advice in that scenario?

I don't think I have space for the surrounds at the rear, but I will check. The shelves go all the way back and the windows take up most of the wall.

Also, I'm considering a set of the bookshelf speakers for another room (they will be too small but they are for background music and there are heavy WAF issues in that room). What are the differences between the silver mini-monitors, the Omni SEs and the silver sats?

Thanks!

Adam

The OnWall Silver Surrounds can't have anything right up against them, and they should have a few inches of unobstructed space in front of and next to the angled baffles. They'll work fine. They should be a foot or two above seated ear level.

The best bet for rears in your application is probably the InRoom Gold Omni SE, at $900 each. If that breaks the budget, the InRoom Silver Sats for $350 each are probably 60% as good...but the Gold Omni SE is exquisite. The InRoom Silver MiniMonitor, at $1,250 each, is overkill for rear surrounds, and it doesn't handle as much power below 120 Hz as the other two choices.
post #4799 of 6133
I am in the process of getting speakers for a 9.1 system. From all of the reviews I feel Triads will be the best for my application. My room is approximately 3400 cubic feet. I'm having an issue with front speaker placement.

Here was my original plan:

Triad Silver in-wall for right and left mains
Triad Silver in-room for center
Triad in-ceiling Bronze/8 LCR for front heights
Triad in-wall Bronze surround for side surrounds (These speakers would be located in the ceiling.)
Triad in-ceiling Bronze/8 LCR for rear surrounds.

I have a block wall that limits how low I can place the right and left mains. They would end up only 18 inches from the ceiling. Would this be to close to the front heights?

I attached a very very rough sketch of my front HT wall and my HT layout.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

Basement Dimensions.docx 39k .docx file Triad Front Wall Speakers.docx 40k .docx file
post #4800 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiguej View Post

I am in the process of getting speakers for a 9.1 system. From all of the reviews I feel Triads will be the best for my application. My room is approximately 3400 cubic feet. I'm having an issue with front speaker placement.

Here was my original plan:

Triad Silver in-wall for right and left mains
Triad Silver in-room for center
Triad in-ceiling Bronze/8 LCR for front heights
Triad in-wall Bronze surround for side surrounds (These speakers would be located in the ceiling.)
Triad in-ceiling Bronze/8 LCR for rear surrounds.

I have a block wall that limits how low I can place the right and left mains. They would end up only 18 inches from the ceiling. Would this be to close to the front heights?

I attached a very very rough sketch of my front HT wall and my HT layout.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

Thanks for choosing Triad. Remember to purchase from an authorized dealer, and order the grilles custom paint-matched. The service is free.

Because the side surrounds do the heavy lifting, upgrade to Silver Surrounds. You'll get a few more dB of output, and the cost difference is not much. If you need to scale back, switch out Silver Sats for the four Bronze/8 LCRs. Make sure your receiver can drive a 6 ohm load, get a serious sub (Triad makes a few), and you should be very happy.
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