or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Triad Owner's Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Triad Owner's Thread - Page 17

post #481 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Sorry Paul if I'm kicking a dead horse here, but let me re-phrase the question to convey my concern..

The inroom speakers would have essentially no wall around within 12-18". The center would be in the wall. As far as distance from the sweet spot, all three would be close to being in the same plane. My concern is that the center would possibly have a "cupping effect" (imagine talking through your hands when forming a megaphone with your palms) and the mains would not being out in the room. Will the sound be different or am I totally on another planet with my logic here.......



A flat wall is not a megaphone, and there is no cupped hands sound. As frequencies go lower, there is a proximity effect which slightly boosts frequencies from the lower midrange and down. We have compensated for this 2-3 dB elevation in the response in the wall by altering the InWall crossover.

You have greater chance of degrading the sound with your left and right speakers, because the mids and highs (1st reflections) can bounce off the adjacent walls, and the lower frequencies will bounce off the wall behind them, causing some peaks and cancelleations. Ideally, there should be no hard walls behind and next to the left and right speakers. The center, especially an inwall, does not have these problems.
post #482 of 6133
Paul thanks for your well regarded response. You are a true asset to this forum.

David
post #483 of 6133
Okay, so it it is finally time. Received my Triad's back in late July and I am finally ready to install them -- looking for one final piece of advice/feedback about the front speaker placement. Here is a picture of what my TV looks like with the "Triad cutout templates" on the wall with measurements:



And the rears (InWall Bronze/4 Surround)



Couple of questions:

(1) The TV extends from the wall about 5 1/8th of an inch - I could move the speakers further out than 2.5" as seen in the picture, but it would push the left further into the corner. Thoughts?

(2) The stud structure of the wall allows me to to turn the center channel horizontal - any benefit/detriment to doing that? (Paul, in an earlier post you suggested that I do all three speakers vertical - now that the TV is mounted, I want to sanity check this before I cut...)

(3) Before I cut holes in the wall -- any final thoughts/comments?


Thanks,
Brian

P.S. I was hoping to move the "right front" speaker further to the right (allowing me to move the left front further from the corner) but I can't do that due to the studs in the wall.
post #484 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by staysafeonline View Post

Couple of questions:

(1) The TV extends from the wall about 5 1/8th of an inch - I could move the speakers further out than 2.5" as seen in the picture, but it would push the left further into the corner. Thoughts?

If, in fact, your stud locations allow you to place the speakers where you have the templates, you are fortunate. I wouldn't spread the fronts out, because the left front will sound poor stuffed into an untreated corner.

Quote:


(2) The stud structure of the wall allows me to to turn the center channel horizontal - any benefit/detriment to doing that? (Paul, in an earlier post you suggested that I do all three speakers vertical - now that the TV is mounted, I want to sanity check this before I cut...)

Vertical is better, overall, but the image will be closer to the screen if you install the center horizontal. I would still opt for vertical. Why didn't you order the speakers with the free custom paint matching?

Quote:


(3) Before I cut holes in the wall -- any final thoughts/comments?


Thanks,
Brian

P.S. I was hoping to move the "right front" speaker further to the right (allowing me to move the left front further from the corner) but I can't do that due to the studs in the wall.

Make sure when you cut the holes that you use the correct part of the template so the hole isn't too big. If you do make the holes too big...we'll have to sell you bigger speakers!

Best of luck.
post #485 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

If, in fact, your stud locations allow you to place the speakers where you have the templates, you are fortunate. I wouldn't spread the fronts out, because the left front will sound poor stuffed into an untreated corner.

The stud locations were modified so I could install these -- so the luck was actually a result of re-engineering the wall! :>)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Vertical is better, overall, but the image will be closer to the screen if you install the center horizontal. I would still opt for vertical. Why didn't you order the speakers with the free custom paint matching?

I will go vertical and follow your advice! No custom paint matching because the dealer I ordered them from told me it would be cheaper to paint myself and that it was probably going to be > $100/speaker -- not a huge amount at the time but more than my already exceed budget could allow for!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Make sure when you cut the holes that you use the correct part of the template so the hole isn't too big. If you do make the holes too big...we'll have to sell you bigger speakers!

Hmmm.... now you have me thinking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Best of luck.

I mounted the TV yesterday and much to my delight, when I woke up this morning, guess what... STILL ON THE WALL! Of to play some softball this morning and then coming back and going to run around the house with a drywall saw in my hand! (Cause I am crazy like that!)

Thanks!

Brian
post #486 of 6133
Your dealer is dead wrong about the painting of the grills. Are they an authorizorized Triad dealer? The custom painting is free, and your grills have already been painted white, so they cannot be repainted. We don't use a perforated grill material; it's an aluminum Acoustimesh that is expanded metal. There's no way of repainting those grills with good results. If it's an authorized dealer, I don't mean to kick them to the curb, but they got this wrong.
post #487 of 6133
Paul, I will PM you with the information so you can be sure to touch base with them and let them know. I think it was an honest mistake on their part -- and I actually think I like the speakers not dissolving into the wall.
post #488 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by staysafeonline View Post

Paul, I will PM you with the information so you can be sure to touch base with them and let them know. I think it was an honest mistake on their part -- and I actually think I like the speakers not dissolving into the wall.

Fair enough. I wouldn't give the dealer a rough time. I appreciate our Triad dealers, and every dealer has made a mistake at one time or another. Hell, I make more mistakes than I care to admit...
post #489 of 6133
So I finally setup my new Triad Gold LCR's and Gold center. I'm blow away by these speakers! I have a setup question though.

1. I'm using a JL Audio F113 as a sub and have the LCR's crossed over at 65Hz. Sounds right. Is the a good roll of point for them speakers?

2. Toe in. I have the speakers about 9ft apart and my first row in the room is about 11ft away. Should I point them straight out or should I experiment with toe in? Actual room is about 12ft wide x 20ft long.

Tony
post #490 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

So I finally setup my new Triad Gold LCR's and Gold center. I'm blow away by these speakers! I have a setup question though.

1. I'm using a JL Audio F113 as a sub and have the LCR's crossed over at 65Hz. Sounds right. Is the a good roll of point for them speakers?

2. Toe in. I have the speakers about 9ft apart and my first row in the room is about 11ft away. Should I point them straight out or should I experiment with toe in? Actual room is about 12ft wide x 20ft long.

We're always pleased when new owners are happy with their Triads.

Great sub, BTW. If you tend to listen very loud (ever) I would move the crossover up to 80 Hz, but if you don't ever exceed reference level, you're good to go.

What are you powering these speakers with? They like at least 150 watts into 4 ohms, and 300 is about perfect. You can fill a room with 20 watts, but to get the most out of the Gold LCRs, more power is better.

Experiment with toe-in. You'll get more direct and less reflected sound by aiming the speakers at a point about three feet behind your head at the listening position. And you'll get less reflections off the side walls.

Again, thanks.
post #491 of 6133
I have plenty of power. I'm using a Theta Dreadnaught 2. (225w @8ohms, 450w @4ohms)

The room is treated fairly well. Need to add some treatment on from front wall behind the speaker and I'm thinking a couple of spots on the ceiling as well.

I'll experient with toe in a bit more.

If I crossover at 80hz, am I taking anything away from the dual 8 inch drivers in the LCRs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

We're always pleased when new owners are happy with their Triads.

Great sub, BTW. If you tend to listen very loud (ever) I would move the crossover up to 80 Hz, but if you don't ever exceed reference level, you're good to go.

What are you powering these speakers with? They like at least 150 watts into 4 ohms, and 300 is about perfect. You can fill a room with 20 watts, but to get the most out of the Gold LCRs, more power is better.

Experiment with toe-in. You'll get more direct and less reflected sound by aiming the speakers at a point about three feet behind your head at the listening position. And you'll get less reflections off the side walls.

Again, thanks.
post #492 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I have plenty of power. I'm using a Theta Dreadnaught 2. (225w @8ohms, 450w @4ohms)

The room is treated fairly well. Need to add some treatment on from front wall behind the speaker and I'm thinking a couple of spots on the ceiling as well.

I'll experient with toe in a bit more.

If I crossover at 80hz, am I taking anything away from the dual 8 inch drivers in the LCRs?

I forgot you had a Dreadnaught. It is one big sick beast. Perfect.

You'll have more headroom crossing at 80 Hz, but try it at 65 Hz, too. If bass localization is a problem, go with the lower highpass frequency. The Gold LCRs are down about 3 dB at 50 Hz, but it makes no sense to pulverize them down low when you have such a capable subwoofer.

Let us know what works best after you dial it in.
post #493 of 6133
Can we order new grills for Triad spekers and have them paint matched? I ordered 3 new gold lcr speakers and had them paint matched but I have a sub that is new but has a white grill.
post #494 of 6133
I know this is a stupid question but considering the Gold LCR's have two 8 inches drivers; If I cross over at 80hz, will I not be utilizing the full impact of the drivers? What am I gaining with two 8" drivers vs a smaller speaker like the M&K s150's which have two 5.25 which are also crossed over at 80hz?
post #495 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I know this is a stupid question but considering the Gold LCR's have two 8 inches drivers; If I cross over at 80hz, will I not be utilizing the full impact of the drivers? What am I gaining with two 8" drivers vs a smaller speaker like the M&K s150's which have two 5.25 which are also crossed over at 80hz?

Your monster sub will reproduce 65 Hz better than a Gold LCR. Plus, removing low bass from the Gold LCR will greatly increase power handling of those 8" aluminum-cone Seas drivers, and eliminating a great deal of Doppler Effect by filtering long-excursion bass out which will clean up the 100 Hz-400 Hz range. Remember that with a 65 Hz crossover point (-3 dB), 32 Hz bass will only be 15 dB down. If you are listening loudly, you'll be unneccessarily pounding low bass into your LCRs when your sub is more than up to that task.
post #496 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by jongig View Post

Can we order new grills for Triad spekers and have them paint matched? I ordered 3 new gold lcr speakers and had them paint matched but I have a sub that is new but has a white grill.

Order the grill assembly from your dealer, and submit a paint sample. You'll pay for the grill and frame, but the custom paint is free.
post #497 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Your monster sub will reproduce 65 Hz better than a Gold LCR. Plus, removing low bass from the Gold LCR will greatly increase power handling of those 8" aluminum-cone Seas drivers, and eliminating a great deal of Doppler Effect by filtering long-excursion bass out which will clean up the 100 Hz-400 Hz range. Remember that with a 65 Hz crossover point (-3 dB), 32 Hz bass will only be 15 dB down. If you are listening loudly, you'll be unneccessarily pounding low bass into your LCRs when your sub is more than up to that task.

Got it.. so essentially I'll have improved midrange by taking some stress away from the speakers by crossing at 80hz. So what is the advantage of having two 8 inch drivers vs a speaker with two 5.25 drivers?
post #498 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Got it.. so essentially I'll have improved midrange by taking some stress away from the speakers by crossing at 80hz. So what is the advantage of having two 8 inch drivers vs a speaker with two 5.25 drivers?

If you looked at those 5.25" drivers crossed at 80 Hz when you were wailing on your system, the cones were probably at maximum excursion with high distortion. The 8" drivers will play louder with lower distortion.
post #499 of 6133
A couple of years ago I invested significantly in my first "high end" audio system....my 50th birthday present to myself. A setup primarily of Classe and B&W. Specifically a front stage of 802D and HTM1D powered by Classe
CAM400 monoblock amplificaton (400 at 8 ohms, 800 at 4) with 803D (classe CA2200....200 at 8 ohms and 400 at 4) for the rear with a Classe SSP600 processor.

The dealer, B&W, and Classe have supported the products as well as i could have asked for but I have had a few issues ....primarily driver problems.....that have me questioning whether perhaps my usage of the products is atypical or if there is some undiagnosed problem. The majority of my usage is movie or TV although I still listen to music on occassion.....and hope to have time to return to music in a bigger way at some point in the future. While I listen to movies at a relative high volume level, i don't think the level is extreme. The dealer tells me i should have no problem with the peak volume settings i have used.

My theater room is 18 by 26 with 10 foot ceilings. The amplifiers are on dedicated 20 amp circuits. All speakers are set to small with cross over at 65 hertz per dealer recommendation to subs. I am using (2) JL Audio F113 subwoofers.

I am considering power conditioning (perhaps furman reference 20i), but also possibly swap out of speakers and amps if i can exchange / resell these products at not too great a loss.

I am no expert by any means but it seems that what i am really looking for is a combination of high fidelity and great dynamics and efficiency.....i'm not sure if that combination actually exists. Can anyone comment on the relative HT merits of speaker options in the Triad line in relation to the B&W products I have referenced above ?
post #500 of 6133
Thread Starter 
Joe, thanks for your post.

Power conditioning is a must in a system of this caliber, however not in sense that you might think. If you have dedicated circuits for your amps there should be no need to condition the power for the amplifiers.

If you are blowing drivers, then two things come to mind, that being distortion and inadequate power. The Classe's shouldn't be the problem, though.

The 802d is a very capable speaker for both music and HT, although I do not like it myself. No, I'm not trying to be a Triad homer, I just have never liked the 802. Given your room size, I would recommend two Triad models, the Gold LCR's or my recommended Platinum's. Another worthy contender are the Monitors, however, the Triad Monitors are a bit small for that room imho.
post #501 of 6133
Not sure if this would help or not.. A friend of a buddy of mine has a pair of 802D's and the HTM1D center channel in his home theater. We spend some time in his theater listening to them. His room is about the same size is yours. They sounded great but something was a little off for me. Didn't blow me away. I guess I expected more from the 802D's so maybe my expectations were too high.

This past weekend I had an opportunity to listen to a theater setup up with Triad In Room Platinum's and I thought my heart was going to stop. He played an Elton John concert (bluray) I literally felt like I was there. I've heard several speakers in my lifetime (I've owned M&K, Paradigm, Revel, Thiel and Focal) but this was the first time I was blown away.
Unfortunately, the platinum's are over my budget right now so I settled with the Gold LCR's and I'm very happy with them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_St View Post

A couple of years ago I invested significantly in my first "high end" audio system....my 50th birthday present to myself. A setup primarily of Classe and B&W. Specifically a front stage of 802D and HTM1D powered by Classe
CAM400 monoblock amplificaton (400 at 8 ohms, 800 at 4) with 803D (classe CA2200....200 at 8 ohms and 400 at 4) for the rear with a Classe SSP600 processor.

The dealer, B&W, and Classe have supported the products as well as i could have asked for but I have had a few issues ....primarily driver problems.....that have me questioning whether perhaps my usage of the products is atypical or if there is some undiagnosed problem. The majority of my usage is movie or TV although I still listen to music on occassion.....and hope to have time to return to music in a bigger way at some point in the future. While I listen to movies at a relative high volume level, i don't think the level is extreme. The dealer tells me i should have no problem with the peak volume settings i have used.

My theater room is 18 by 26 with 10 foot ceilings. The amplifiers are on dedicated 20 amp circuits. All speakers are set to small with cross over at 65 hertz per dealer recommendation to subs. I am using (2) JL Audio F113 subwoofers.

I am considering power conditioning (perhaps furman reference 20i), but also possibly swap out of speakers and amps if i can exchange / resell these products at not too great a loss.

I am no expert by any means but it seems that what i am really looking for is a combination of high fidelity and great dynamics and efficiency.....i'm not sure if that combination actually exists. Can anyone comment on the relative HT merits of speaker options in the Triad line in relation to the B&W products I have referenced above ?
post #502 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_St View Post

A couple of years ago I invested significantly in my first "high end" audio system....my 50th birthday present to myself. A setup primarily of Classe and B&W. Specifically a front stage of 802D and HTM1D powered by Classe
CAM400 monoblock amplificaton (400 at 8 ohms, 800 at 4) with 803D (classe CA2200....200 at 8 ohms and 400 at 4) for the rear with a Classe SSP600 processor.

The dealer, B&W, and Classe have supported the products as well as i could have asked for but I have had a few issues ....primarily driver problems.....that have me questioning whether perhaps my usage of the products is atypical or if there is some undiagnosed problem. The majority of my usage is movie or TV although I still listen to music on occassion.....and hope to have time to return to music in a bigger way at some point in the future. While I listen to movies at a relative high volume level, i don't think the level is extreme. The dealer tells me i should have no problem with the peak volume settings i have used.

My theater room is 18 by 26 with 10 foot ceilings. The amplifiers are on dedicated 20 amp circuits. All speakers are set to small with cross over at 65 hertz per dealer recommendation to subs. I am using (2) JL Audio F113 subwoofers.

I am considering power conditioning (perhaps furman reference 20i), but also possibly swap out of speakers and amps if i can exchange / resell these products at not too great a loss.

I am no expert by any means but it seems that what i am really looking for is a combination of high fidelity and great dynamics and efficiency.....i'm not sure if that combination actually exists. Can anyone comment on the relative HT merits of speaker options in the Triad line in relation to the B&W products I have referenced above ?

Those B&Ws are excellent, in an appropriate setting. At 89.5 dB sensitivity, they don't have enough beans to cover that big room at aggressive output levels, though. Your subs are ideal for that space, by the way, as are your amps. Keep them. You'll need the extra cash for Triad InRoom Platinum LCRs.

When we designed the Platinum LCR, the singular goal was to end up with a speaker that played to brain-damaging levels, and still maintained superb audiophile fidelity. I know of no consumer speaker that will play this loud, yet sounds this good, as others have stated. I used Platinums in my theater for four years, and they are stunning. Go to the Triad website, click on reviews, and read the two reviews of full Platinum systems from last year.

There are a few threads right now that touch upon sensitivity, compression, power handling, and output. For a serious, expensive theater application, it's my opinion that no speaker with sensitivity in the 80s can cut it, even if it handles 2,000 watts. It simply will not have enough headroom. The Platinum LCR is 94.5 dB, and will handle 1,000 watt unclipped peaks, so it has at least 7 dB more headroom than what you currently own.
post #503 of 6133
I wanted to say thanks for the input / insights from all that commented....i appreciate it. Paul, reading through other posts on this site I know you have referenced a monitor version of the Platinum speaker. Do you have further info you can share on that product ? If not i understand....in my work i am accustomed to confidentiality issues related to unannounced products. And I can try to find a Triad dealer in my geography.
post #504 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_St View Post

I wanted to say thanks for the input / insights from all that commented....i appreciate it. Paul, reading through other posts on this site I know you have referenced a monitor version of the Platinum speaker. Do you have further info you can share on that product ? If not i understand....in my work i am accustomed to confidentiality issues related to unannounced products. And I can try to find a Triad dealer in my geography.

We're more open than other speaker companies, because no one wants to copy how we do things. It's too hard. We build 90% of our speakers here, they are overbuilt, and we use expensive drivers, crossover components, and even Straightwire internal wiring. Who the hell wants to copy that when you can have stuff built in China for half (or a quarter) the cost?

Our engineering department is backed up, working hard on products that are an immediate need, and the Platinum Monitor has been pushed back. It was conceived as a high-sensitivity audiophile speaker, like the Platinum LCR, but with even better drivers, maybe an R-29 Scan-Speak tweeter, and beautiful industrial design. The arbitrary price we chose was around $10,000 each, but we are now investigating even better drivers and the speaker will most likely be $15,000 each. We also have not ruled out a hybrid with ribbons. More to come. This is for sure: A David Nelson designed Platinum Monitor will sound exquisite and play louder than nearly anyone ever needs, and it will be made-to-order in America by MERKANS!!
post #505 of 6133
I appreciate your fervor for your products Paul. While I am not expert in relation to audio products, i understand well design choices, demand projections, competing priorities, etc. I'll search out an existing triad platinum system to audition. I anticipate it would meet / exceed my needs. Thanks again.
post #506 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_St View Post

I appreciate your fervor for your products Paul. While I am not expert in relation to audio products, i understand well design choices, demand projections, competing priorities, etc. I'll search out an existing triad platinum system to audition. I anticipate it would meet / exceed my needs. Thanks again.

If you can either post or PM your part of the country, I can have the local Triad rep either find one of the few dealers who has a Platinum system on demo, or a dealer who has a Platinum customer who is willing to let you hear the system.
post #507 of 6133
Can anyone recommend a good stand for the LCR Gold center channel speaker? The one I have from Triad is a bit too tall plus I was looking for something with an up angle. Any thoughts?
post #508 of 6133
Anyone?
post #509 of 6133
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Can anyone recommend a good stand for the LCR Gold center channel speaker? The one I have from Triad is a bit too tall plus I was looking for something with an up angle. Any thoughts?

I'm assuming your speakers are freestanding and not in a cabinet? Here is an option for you. I don't care much for TA's speakers, however, we've used their stands at times and their center stand is a very nice option to consider if the Triad stand isn't your cup-o-tea!

Attachment 123531
LL
post #510 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttowntony View Post

I'm assuming your speakers are freestanding and not in a cabinet? Here is an option for you. I don't care much for TA's speakers, however, we've used their stands at times and their center stand is a very nice option to consider if the Triad stand isn't your cup-o-tea!

Attachment 123531

I like that stand! The LCR Gold center fits ok on this stand? How do I locate one?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › Triad Owner's Thread