Triad Owner's Thread - Page 163

Originally Posted by RMK! 

An unusually candid expression of man love ...

Originally Posted by RMK! 

Paul Scarpelli (Triad Dude) just made an interesting post in the Triad Speaker Thread about blowing speakers. He mentioned that wanting to demo (show off) your audio system to friends at a party and asking too much of the speakers is a common cause of blown speakers. Personally I never had that happen because I was paying attention to how the speakers sounded and when distortion set in I backed off.

With the JTR's, I never have to worry about such things as they are capable of playing much louder than I will ever listen. It is comforting to know that they have that reserve but it is the day to day performance at WAF levels as well as the occasional 3rd row center concert sessions that makes them the right speakers for me. Of course, YMMV

Originally Posted by Yzfbossman 

Hey Guys,

I’m finally starting my theater build….a year after I purchased my Triads.

I’d love your input.

Two big questions: 1) Where to put the subs? 2) Where to put the REAR surrounds?

Here is what I have:
3 –InWall Gold/6 LCRs (scored a deal)
4 – InWall Silver/4 surrounds
2 - CinemaPlus Silver Sub

Below is an almost final drawing. Note the LCRs will be spread more and the side surrounds aren't in the right place but they will be…we were just playing with the riser and stage etc but didn't fix the speaker locations for this drawing.

All speakers will be behind the fabric walls or AT screen.

So Q#1 Subs – should I put both in the false wall? (is so how far apart) or one in the false wall an one on the side wall (attic side) (if so where middle for both??) (can't put on back wall)
Q2 – due to the entry point I can put the rears where they are in the drawing….narrower than recommended OR frame them out in the rear bass traps.

Let me know your thoughts.


Few notes:
-room is 19’9” x 19’9”…dreaded square! Ceiling is 12’
-first row is money seat at 11.5’
-Denon 4311 is driving the Triads (RackAmp 600 for subs)
-the equipment rack is built into the attic space (enclosed and vented)
-room colors are darker than the render/drawing

[/IMG]

Originally Posted by craig john 




Rob, I am really disappointed in your above posts. They are disturbing on multiple levels. I decline to address the "man-love" comment other than to say that it's just stupid.

However, you're SUBTLE portrayal of Triad speakers as prone to blowing tweeters, based on Paul's *historical* perspective, is really over the top. I have seen "fanboi-ism" on the forum before, but you are really taking it to an extreme.

I used to respect your opinions and observations. Lately, I'm not so sure. You seem to have found the "man-love" for Jeff Permanian. Hopefully it's just for his speakers. (Not that there's anything *wrong* with that!)

Craig

Originally Posted by Ian13 

As mentioned earlier my rack amp seems to have a fault.
Reading through the owners manual under troubleshooting alot of the solutions to the symptom is to - CYCLE MAINS POWER OFF FOR 30sec, THEN ON.

The word CYCLE has me a bit thrown in this case, does it mean from the unit being powered on you are to turn if off for 30sec then turn back on and do this only once or does the word cycle mean to do this several times as in a cycle.

Originally Posted by RMK! 

Craig, it seems you misinterpreted the intent of both of my posts and chose to draw you own conclusions.

As to the quote from Paul regarding blowing speakers, if you read his entire post it isn't about any specific brand of speaker but just the natural tendency for HT owners to want to show off their systems and play them louder than they were intended to play whether this is fueled by a substance (alcohol) or just showing off. In context, my post was that I knew what he meant and that I did not worry about that as my speakers are designed to play much louder than most people can tolerate in a room. I assume your speakers are also capable in that regard.

As to my your opinions of my opinions and observations lately, I don't know you nor do you know me. I'm sorry that you took umbrage at my attempt at humor in commenting on your admiration for Paul's "new avatar". It seems he got the joke and you didn't. Oh well ...

Sorry for the OT, I'm outta here ...

Originally Posted by craig john 

If I misinterpreted, I apologize.

Craig

Originally Posted by AaronN 

Hey all. I'm trying to turn my 5.1 BIC Acoustech system into a 7.1 and I need in-wall surrounds. I came across some older in-wall silver LCRs (they may be gold, the seller is unsure) locally, but the seller told me that Triad told him that they can't be used as side-surrounds due to the dispersal. Does this make sense, or do you think they'd work for my system?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli 

Post a picture and I'll tell you what they are. That said, LCRs have limited vertical dispersion, which is desirable for front speakers, but not so much for surrounds. I wouldn't use an LCR for surround unless the room was very wide and the surrounds were at least 12' away.

Originally Posted by AaronN 

Sounds like they're a bad idea for my narrow room.


Here's what the seller just sent me; it looks like he actually heard from you at some point: "Here is what Paul Scarpelli the former director of Triad had to say:

'Those look like old, original InWall Silver LCRs, which were discontinued around 1997. They may be Gold versions, but the drivers look to be 5.25", meaning they're Silver. They must be mounted with the tweeter horn in a horizontal position. They can only be used as LCRs due to the dispersion. Those drivers are all long gone, and if they need repair, they would have to be discarded.'"

And here's my room. The side surrounds will be on either side of the front row. He's offering them at a steal, so I'd love to make em work, but if it's not meant to be...

Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli 

That is very well thought out, but I have a few suggestions. For such an ambitious project where it looks as if you want to do it right, I would make a few additions. You'll be happier in the long run. Add two more CinemaPlus Silver DSP Subs. You can actually install all of them in the front 9" wall. Place them at floor level with two cabinets having the drivers up and two with the drivers down. There are various ways you can position them, but I'd put one pair adjacent to each other a third of the way from a side wall, and position the second pair the same way from the opposite side wall. One of the biggest mistakes people make when doing a serious theater like this is not specifying enough subwoofer capability. Not only will four Silver Subs be able to keep up with Gold LCRs, at reasonable levels the cone excursion will be less for the same level, and bass becomes very tight and effortless.

I would also consider a more modest receiver and adding a more serious power amplifier for the three fronts speakers. You can use the receiver to drive the four surrounds. This will make a big difference. Even an inexpensive Outlaw or Emotiva amp will kick the sound up to the next level.

Originally Posted by AaronN 

Great, thanks for your help! I may just pick them up anyway for my bedroom. $75 seems too good to pass up.

Originally Posted by Yzfbossman 

Thanks Paul!

Do you think the Emotiva XPA3 is a good fit? It's rated as 300w per channel into 4 ohm....the Golds are listed with a 250w max...it that ok?

also what do you (or anyone else) think about my surround placement. Keep on back wall are put in corners?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli 

Make sure none of the drivers are blown, because they're no longer available, and you cannot substitute. Look for cracks or holes in the suspension of the mids. If there's any damage, pass on the deal.

Originally Posted by jimmyk36 

Hey Paul - Looking at the Silver Monitor Specs on the Triad Web Site and there are different specs listed on the web page versus the PDF download:

http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/irsmon.html
http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/product_literature/irsilmon.pdf

Web page says speaker max watts are 200w and the PDF says 300w.

I am running my Left and Right with a Crown XLS 2500 which is rated 775W per channel at 4 ohms so I have enough power.

For the center channel I am running an old Carver amp rated at 350w at 4ohms.

Just curious as to which max power handling number is correct.

Thanks,
Jim

Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli 

Craig's response is on target, as expected. My guess is you'll be about 3 dB below reference at the money seat, which is still pretty loud.

That's assuming you're using an amp that delivers at least 200 watts into 4 ohms. Using a typical 125 watt per channel receiver with Silver Monitors would be a sin.

I concur with adding an additional sub, for 3-5 dB more bass, and smoothed-out room modes. And, looking at your room dimensions, if you happen to sit 15.5' back from the front wall, you will have a paucity of bassage. There is no bass in the dead center of a room. 13' back from the wall should be good. If your speakers are out 2' from the wall and you're 13.5' back from there...no bass. And no way to get any bass. I would make sure the first row is around 13' from the screen WALL.

That's a very accurate speaker system that will still play moderately loud. It's a superb system.

Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli 

.... Add two more CinemaPlus Silver DSP Subs. You can actually install all of them in the front 9" wall. Place them at floor level with two cabinets having the drivers up and two with the drivers down. There are various ways you can position them, but I'd put one pair adjacent to each other a third of the way from a side wall, and position the second pair the same way from the opposite side wall........

....l.

Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli 

That Emotiva will work great. Triad doesn't do "power handling" ratings because they're meaningless. Instead, Triad uses "maximum suggested amplifier power." The Gold LCR will handle short midband peaks of 500 watts, but you could destroy almost any speaker with a continuous 100 watt sine wave at a frequency the speaker doesn't like. Unless you play at abusive levels, you'll have no problem.

Rear surrounds can really be placed anywhere from the rear corners to close together in the middle of the back wall. Put them where they'll fit, and if you can aim them at the listening area, that will be better.

Originally Posted by jimmyk36 

Thanks Paul - Yeah they are plenty loud without going to reference level so I am not worried about over powering them. However - just wanted to make sure I had the " at least 200 watts into 4 ohms" you had mentioned in the previous post above

Originally Posted by Yzfbossman 

I was sizing things out with the screen and such....It's going to be hard to put the two subs next to each other. Could I put one below and one ABOVE the screen at 1/3? Would that cause in issues? Correct me if I'm wrong on the mounting brackets but they look strong enough to hold the sub itself w/o a shelf?

Originally Posted by m3fan8ic 

Paul,
I am having my house built which will be ready by May/June this year. I have a small dedicated HT room (17x13), I was thinking about going with your in-wall speakers but not sure which model will fit best for my HT. I have builder install the soundproofing on walls and ceiling and have 5.1 speaker cable run inside the walls. I'll be looking to get a projector with 100" screen. My main goal is to watch movies, some sports games and play video games in the HT. I like nice crisp sound with nice bass. I wanted to see what you would recommend? I'll be powering these with my Denon AVR4306.
Thanks
Sid

Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli 

In a smallish room with a big video display, you need to do an acoustically-transparent screen. Also, I wouldn't settle upon a receiver until I knew what speakers I was going to use. The rule of thumb is select the speakers for the room and budget, and then match the amplifier. I like Denon, but they don't deliver more power at 6 ohms than at 8 ohms, and they aren't rated for 4 ohms, although they tend to work for lower impedances. Consider a smaller Denon and adding a separate amplifier that can deliver 200 watts into 4 ohms. High-end receivers these days are amazing instruments, but their output stages are the weakest parts.

Just to clarify, soundproofing and acoustical treatments are entirely different. Soundproofing is meant to keep the sound within the room and not bleed into adjacent areas. Acoustical treatment is meant to control the acoustics of the room and allow for better audio performance. I encourage people to do both, but acoustical treatment is far more important in most cases.

Without a budget, I am at a loss to help much. There are Triad InWall systems (with freestanding or InWall subs) from around $3,000 to upwards of $50,000. You could do a very nice Triad system in that room for around $5,000 (Silver LCRs, Surrounds, and SIlver OmniSub), but there are some excellent possibilities if you have more budget than that. Let me know, and I'll try to help.

Originally Posted by m3fan8ic 

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your prompt reply and information/suggestion. I am not set on the screen yet but would like to go as big as possible and best suited for the room size. I did use online link to calculate the size by viewing distance etc and it tells me somewhere around 96". I can be flexable with screen size. Regarding Denon, well I've had this reciever for 4years and thought I can save $$ on not buying another receiver. I know you are expert in Triad but do you know of any other brand which will work best with my receiver? I could open a new thread and ask this question I guess too...
I understand the difference between soundproofing and acoustical treatments and I have plans to do the acoustical threatment later when budget permits. Reason I got the soundproofing in ceiling and walls is becuase there is a guest bedroom across form the HT room and kitchen/dinning above so trying to keep the sound contain.
I was giving myself budget of $6k which will include Epson 5020ub and screen. If I go over my wife will come after me with some papers in her hand LOL..
maybe I should consider a lower end different brand?