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Triad Owner's Thread - Page 188

post #5611 of 6133
Jeff,

I did the calculations for the in-ceiling installation and at a 7' seating distance you are at the very edge of where you should be for the best localization. If you were to sit closer, this would work better. If you put the speaker in-wall at 70-80" high you would have to move your seating position back a whole bunch further than 9 feet.

All things considered, I would rather have you go horizontal and under the TV.

Of course, there's always this: http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/owmlcr3se.html Triad can custom size it to match your TV width, and of course, they will paint it any color you like.
post #5612 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post

Jeff,

I did the calculations for the in-ceiling installation and at a 7' seating distance you are at the very edge of where you should be for the best localization. If you were to sit closer, this would work better. If you put the speaker in-wall at 70-80" high you would have to move your seating position back a whole bunch further than 9 feet.

All things considered, I would rather have you go horizontal and under the TV.

Thanks for the advice Dawn.
post #5613 of 6133
Looking for help/opinion. New dedicated HT/music space in basement 15x20. Local dealer has recommended Triad in wall system consisting of bronze lcr for LRC, on wall bronze for sides and surrounds, and 2 triad bronze subs for 7.2 system. Will be using integra 80.3 processor plus amp, 80.3 receiver, or 70.4 receiver. 120 inch 2.35 screen with JVC projector. Suggestions on amps and speaker recs appreciated. In wall suggested because of children and I will also be using a completely separate tube stereo system with Merlin speakers for music.
post #5614 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhurst View Post

Looking for help/opinion. New dedicated HT/music space in basement 15x20. Local dealer has recommended Triad in wall system consisting of bronze lcr for LRC, on wall bronze for sides and surrounds, and 2 triad bronze subs for 7.2 system. Will be using integra 80.3 processor plus amp, 80.3 receiver, or 70.4 receiver. 120 inch 2.35 screen with JVC projector. Suggestions on amps and speaker recs appreciated. In wall suggested because of children and I will also be using a completely separate tube stereo system with Merlin speakers for music.

Don't make the mistake of spending a disproportionate amount of money on your electronics and then do entry level speakers. I own an Integra 80.2 preamp/processor, and it's excellent, but I'm using $18,000 worth of Triad speakers in my theater. You need to have some balance. Consider upgrading to Silver LCRs with the 80.3 receiver, or, if you have 6" of stud depth, consider Gold LCRs. Consider an AT screen so you can have all three LCRs at the same height for the best performance. And to be fair, authorized Triad dealers know their stuff, and I ultimately defer to his wisdom, especially if he's seen the room. But please don't buy Bronze LCRs with $4,000 worth of separate electronics. You're better off with putting $2,500 more into speakers, and $2,500 less into electronics. Speakers, the room, and the software determine the system's sound more than anything else.
Edited by Paul Scarpelli - 11/10/13 at 7:09pm
post #5615 of 6133

I second that above notion--speakers will last decades, pre/pros are swapped as technology changes. 

post #5616 of 6133
Has anybody heard the cinema reference speakers or even know where to demo them. I am thinking of going the triad way, with some plats, behind the screen, in an eleven person theater.

I almost pulled the plug on Brolicbeast plats, then he took them off for sale.

Maybe we can get Brolicbeast to buy the cinema reference and then I can buy his plats, lol.
post #5617 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultimm View Post

Has anybody heard the cinema reference speakers or even know where to demo them. I am thinking of going the triad way, with some plats, behind the screen, in an eleven person theater.

I almost pulled the plug on Brolicbeast plats, then he took them off for sale.

Maybe we can get Brolicbeast to buy the cinema reference and then I can buy his plats, lol.

LOL--the Cinema Reference models were one of the reasons I put up the Plats for sale so quickly after acquiring them, until I realized that the Cinema Reference series will probably never make it to market (announced a couple years ago, and still very little info available).  Had to pull the Plats back off the market man! I love these speakers! 

post #5618 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

LOL--the Cinema Reference models were one of the reasons I put up the Plats for sale so quickly after acquiring them, until I realized that the Cinema Reference series will probably never make it to market (announced a couple years ago, and still very little info available).  Had to pull the Plats back off the market man! I love these speakers! 

When the CinemaReference 2 is actually released, I'll announce it here. Many times Triad products have a "protracted gestation period." wink.gif Apparently, this complex design is especially difficult to manufacture, and Triad engineering is still tweaking the design.
post #5619 of 6133
Here's a preliminary picture of Triad's newest product, the Nano soundbar. It's 1.6" deep, uses special Scan-Speak drivers, it's available in custom widths (at extra cost), and it's available in any color you choose (at no additional cost.) The preliminary retail price is $1,300, and the speaker will be shipping *soon.*



NANOpic.jpg
Edited by Paul Scarpelli - 11/11/13 at 10:24am
post #5620 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

When the CinemaReference 2 is actually released, I'll announce it here. Many times Triad products have a "protracted gestation period." wink.gif Apparently, this complex design is especially difficult to manufacture, and Triad engineering is still tweaking the design.

I see that they are making a surround speaker with a 10 inch woofer plus tweeter. Could this be used as a front LCR if one intended to do this, since it would save cost now and then up grade in the future?
post #5621 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultimm View Post

I see that they are making a surround speaker with a 10 inch woofer plus tweeter. Could this be used as a front LCR if one intended to do this, since it would save cost now and then up grade in the future?

From what I know so far, the surround is a dipole, so, no, it can't be used as a front. My assumption is there will also be (some day) a CR1 (bigger) and a CR3 (smaller.)
post #5622 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Here's a preliminary picture of Triad's newest product, the Nano soundbar. It's 1.6" deep, uses special Scan-Speak drivers, it's available in custom widths (at extra cost), and it's available in any color you choose (at no additional cost.) The preliminary retail price is $1,300, and the speaker will be shipping *soon.*



NANOpic.jpg

I saw it at CEDIA. Looked really nice.
post #5623 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

From what I know so far, the surround is a dipole, so, no, it can't be used as a front. My assumption is there will also be (some day) a CR1 (bigger) and a CR3 (smaller.)

Because of this march towards object based audio, is Triad looking at ways of designing matching monopole overhead speakers and perhaps going to monopole wall-mount and in-wall surrounds with the same drivers as the front. As you may know already, object based audio has positional sound cues embedded into the mix itself and relies primarily on multiple arrays of timbre matched speakers. Depending on the sophistication of the rendering processor, each attached speaker becomes a "channel" for 3D-spacial object positioning.

If you had a chance to hear Gravity in Dolby Atmos, you'll probably realize that traditional dipole surrounds would more than likely smear the aggressively positional dialog and effects.

Another thing to consider... a "budget" line of quality surround speakers that would allow for more "regular" people to experience multiple speaker arrays in their home, so that the transition to object surround would be a lot smoother and economically palatable to a wide range of income levels.
post #5624 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Because of this march towards object based audio, is Triad looking at ways of designing matching monopole overhead speakers and perhaps going to monopole wall-mount and in-wall surrounds with the same drivers as the front. As you may know already, object based audio has positional sound cues embedded into the mix itself and relies primarily on multiple arrays of timbre matched speakers. Depending on the sophistication of the rendering processor, each attached speaker becomes a "channel" for 3D-spacial object positioning.

Triad has as many as four versions of the same speaker, with the same drivers, crossover, cabinet volume, and performance, in inwall, inroom, inceiling, incorner, and onwall configurations, so they already offer those options. Additionally, there are many smaller Triad speakers that use the same drivers (or smaller versions) as their front speakers, opening up even more options for direct-radiating surrounds. The Silver Sat models use the same 6.5" driver (but only a single) and the same tweeter as the Silver LCRs. Same with the Silver Monitors and Silver MiniMonitors. The Gold Omni SE uses the same tweeter and a similar mid as the Gold LCR models. And so forth. No manufacturer offers more combinations of speakers designed for more locations within a theater that are as closely matched. And, for the record, I am not a universal fan of dipoles, except that in a tight theater, they are a good compromise that allows a broad surround field without the very annoying "hot-spotting" you get from a direct-radiating speaker four feet away from your head.
Quote:
Another thing to consider... a "budget" line of quality surround speakers that would allow for more "regular" people to experience multiple speaker arrays in their home, so that the transition to object surround would be a lot smoother and economically palatable to a wide range of income levels.

Some companies aren't set up well to do entry level products. The BMW 318 a few years ago turned out to be too much money and not enough car, for example. Triad's strength is not in $1,000 5.1 systems, and they would get killed in that market. Most Triad products are built to order in America, and that's usually the wrong business model for budget products. That said, one can do a $2,050 Triad 5.1 system of high quality (and modest output) with five "made in U.S.A." speakers and a sub.

I appreciate your astute comments, and you are always welcome in this thread. Good info.
post #5625 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Triad has as many as four versions of the same speaker, with the same drivers, crossover, cabinet volume, and performance, in inwall, inroom, inceiling, incorner, and onwall configurations, so they already offer those options. Additionally, there are many smaller Triad speakers that use the same drivers (or smaller versions) as their front speakers, opening up even more options for direct-radiating surrounds. The Silver Sat models use the same 6.5" driver (but only a single) and the same tweeter as the Silver LCRs. Same with the Silver Monitors and Silver MiniMonitors. The Gold Omni SE uses the same tweeter and a similar mid as the Gold LCR models. And so forth. No manufacturer offers more combinations of speakers designed for more locations within a theater that are as closely matched. And, for the record, I am not a universal fan of dipoles, except that in a tight theater, they are a good compromise that allows a broad surround field without the very annoying "hot-spotting" you get from a direct-radiating speaker four feet away from your head.
Some companies aren't set up well to do entry level products. The BMW 318 a few years ago turned out to be too much money and not enough car, for example. Triad's strength is not in $1,000 5.1 systems, and they would get killed in that market. Most Triad products are built to order in America, and that's usually the wrong business model for budget products. That said, one can do a $2,050 Triad 5.1 system of high quality (and modest output) with five "made in U.S.A." speakers and a sub.

I appreciate your astute comments, and you are always welcome in this thread. Good info.

I definitely understand the marketplace considerations you're talking about, and I would never want to have a company like Triad feel the need to outsource their products to another country to create something cheaply made at high profit margins on the backs of little more than indentured servants. There are far too many that do this already (like for instance >cough< Apple and Nike >cough<)... but that's a discussion for another time. smile.gif I'd rather pay a bit more for quality U.S. goods.

Where I see a possible "issue" in today's speaker designs is utilizing them for the overhead monopole speakers, the height "channels" in object based mixes. You need something that is easily and safely anchorable to the ceiling and can be aimed for the greatest effectiveness. Triad ought to look at Dolby's Atmos white papers. At least it's a good place to start.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/Dolby-Atmos-Cinema-Technical-Guidelines.pdf

All the best and have a great Turkey Day!
post #5626 of 6133
Are the speakers being used in Atmos height arrays just normal speakers?
post #5627 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Are the speakers being used in Atmos height arrays just normal speakers?

The short answer: it depends. I've seen speakers that look like they were custom designed for the more sophisticated Atmos showcase theaters, and others that looked to be regular commercial side surrounds placed on ceiling brackets. All had safety cabling in case a mount broke. There are guidelines on the proper degree of angle for both the side and back wall surrounds and the height speakers, so there should be some way to fine tune this in newer surround speakers.

One listen to Gravity's Atmos mix (one of the most aggressive object mixes yet) and you'll realize that the fronts and the various surrounds must be 100% timbre matched or the 3D illusion falls apart. There is also a recommendation going out to audio post houses to utilize full range sound effects in all speakers because there is an option for surround channel subwoofer outputs. Though, the surrounds should ideally be able to dip to a lower frequency range than the way most models are made today, where they can handle very little bass.

Because object based surround dictates the use of more than the normal amount of speakers (plus overheads) for the 3D effect, dipoles really should be considered verboten, even in smaller rooms. Once you experience a really good object mix, you'll never want to go back to solely channel-based formats again.

On the commercial side, you could have 64 "channels" of surround sound off of one 9.1 channel "base" soundtrack with computer controlled object files because each speaker can be individually plotted and addressed by the decoder.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 11/12/13 at 5:37pm
post #5628 of 6133
A quick note...I am still trying to figure out where I am going in my current build (Triad vs other speakers), but the service and attentiveness from Steve Colburn was great. Just a note amongst the normally crappy world of sales and customer service...so pleasant to have a different experience
post #5629 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by bissonnette7 View Post

A quick note...I am still trying to figure out where I am going in my current build (Triad vs other speakers), but the service and attentiveness from Steve Colburn was great. Just a note amongst the normally crappy world of sales and customer service...so pleasant to have a different experience

Every company drops the ball now and then, but Triad customer service is considered extremely important to everyone who works there. Bill Ruark in sales is great, as is Brent Passmore in service. I know Steve Colburn from the late '80s when I was selling him Fosgate-Audionics surround processors when he had his installation company in Austin. Steve is one of the brightest and upbeat folks in this industry. It was a pleasure working with him for my last four or five years at Triad.
post #5630 of 6133
post #5631 of 6133

What is your opinion about the Triad InRoom Gold LCR and Thiel MCS1? I find that both are good speakers and their specifications are quite similar. Have anyone heard both of the speakers and can comment about the sounds of both speakers? 

post #5632 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkyin1 View Post

What is your opinion about the Triad InRoom Gold LCR and Thiel MCS1? I find that both are good speakers and their specifications are quite similar. Have anyone heard both of the speakers and can comment about the sounds of both speakers? 

I had a long talk with Jim Theil years ago, and his philosophy of designing and building speakers is similar to Triad's methods, other than Theil built in batches, and Triad builds to order, one at a time. Both speakers are exceptional, and it's a matter of taste. I will point out that the Gold LCR will play to higher levels and will have better dynamics at high volume due to a significantly higher sensitivity; 92 dB versus 90 dB. Again, it's a matter of preference.
post #5633 of 6133
Where can we audition Triads in the Houston area.
post #5634 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post

Where can we audition Triads in the Houston area.

Contact your local Triad rep to get the name of an appropriate dealer. http://www.triadspeakers.com/howtobuy/usamapfolder/repslist/neweramarketing.html

In case you haven't noticed, traditional "hi-fi" shops no longer exist, and independent A/V dealers rarely have demo facilities anymore, due to overhead and sparse traffic. You may or may not be able to find a Triad dealer with a showroom or demo facility, but the local rep will try to help.
post #5635 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post


I had a long talk with Jim Theil years ago, and his philosophy of designing and building speakers is similar to Triad's methods, other than Theil built in batches, and Triad builds to order, one at a time. Both speakers are exceptional, and it's a matter of taste. I will point out that the Gold LCR will play to higher levels and will have better dynamics at high volume due to a significantly higher sensitivity; 92 dB versus 90 dB. Again, it's a matter of preference.


Thank you for your opinion. I also think that both are exceptional speakers. Currently, I do not have the time to audit both speakers. I must find some time to audit both speaker and see which speaker suits my preference before upgrading my current setup.

post #5636 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by paultimm View Post

Has anybody heard the cinema reference speakers or even know where to demo them. I am thinking of going the triad way, with some plats, behind the screen, in an eleven person theater.
l.






Triad factory "tweeking" process........................................... Triad office officials eat their lunch and play with volume knob! biggrin.gif
post #5637 of 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post

Jeff,

I did the calculations for the in-ceiling installation and at a 7' seating distance you are at the very edge of where you should be for the best localization. If you were to sit closer, this would work better. If you put the speaker in-wall at 70-80" high you would have to move your seating position back a whole bunch further than 9 feet.

All things considered, I would rather have you go horizontal and under the TV.

Of course, there's always this: http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/owmlcr3se.html Triad can custom size it to match your TV width, and of course, they will paint it any color you like.

 

Sorry to piggy-back, but I also have a question on the in-ceiling 45 degree speakers. My family room is 14 by 20 with 9.5 foot ceilings. The couch and the TV will be across the short side from each other, so a viewing distance of maybe 12.5 feet. The wall that the TV will be on is full of structural posts, so it's very difficult to make in-walls work. I was thinking of using in-ceiling Bronze LCRs but it seems that to get the angle right with my seating position, I'd basically have to put them in the ceiling in the middle of the room, maybe 6 feet out from the TV wall. Beyond the aesthetic issues, it seems like I might get some localization issues if they are not closer to the TV. Am I thinking about this correctly or are they more flexible with their placement?

 

Thanks,

 

Michael

post #5638 of 6133
Michael,

Triad recommends that the speakers and TV be no more than 3 feet apart horizontally, so your 6 feet isn't going to work with the Bronze/4 LCRs. If you could do 3 feet, it would work a lot better. I ran the numbers and your best seating distance would be between 3.5-10.4 feet.

You may want to go for a really good Triad sound bar or perhaps InRoom Bronze LCRs on stands. When you use the Triad Pedestals they can be secured very well and won't fall off.

Hope this helps.
post #5639 of 6133
I would also consider OnWall Bronze LCRs. The speaker has recently been redesigned, and now they're at a lower price of $750 each.
post #5640 of 6133

Thanks, Dawn and Paul. Sort of figured the in-ceilings would not work. The on-wall Bronze LCRs are a consideration, although in this application, they limit the size of the TV. I don't think I'm the first to say it, but I sure wish Triad would make a LCR speaker in a longer, skinnier configuration. Oh well, can't please all the people all the time. Thanks for the help!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post

Michael,

Triad recommends that the speakers and TV be no more than 3 feet apart horizontally, so your 6 feet isn't going to work with the Bronze/4 LCRs. If you could do 3 feet, it would work a lot better. I ran the numbers and your best seating distance would be between 3.5-10.4 feet.

You may want to go for a really good Triad sound bar or perhaps InRoom Bronze LCRs on stands. When you use the Triad Pedestals they can be secured very well and won't fall off.

Hope this helps.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

I would also consider OnWall Bronze LCRs. The speaker has recently been redesigned, and now they're at a lower price of $750 each.
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