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Windows Home Server for Media PC?

post #1 of 13
10/13/07 at 4:11pm
Thread Starter 
I've been thinking more and more about this and I think this christmas I'd like to build a Media Server PC and though I'm not entirely sure it looks like Windows Home Server would be optimal for this.

What I'm looking for is to either be able to stream music/video to my tvs throughout the house (currently one panasonic with hdmi inputs and older on it and server will be located near this tv) and a older Sony with DVI and component inputs available to me. Now I probably will have my Xbox360 on this tv so perhaps thats the best way to be able to stream video/music to the tv?

Also in the future I will be adding another plasma in the bedroom and would like to be able to stream video/music to it also.

Now the reason why I was thinking home server is because I can remote into it (hopefully using an ibook although if not I guess I'll be getting a dell laptop next notebook) and acess my files from anywhere in the house.

The thing I'm not to sure about is how to be able to stream music/video to all the tvs or is this even possible?

I'd basically would like to be able to store dvds/music on the server (I figure a 1 TB to start but need a case with at least another 2 HD space.

Anyway was curious if anybody has undertaken a similiar project or planning to? There doesn't seem to be too many resources or at least I haven't found many decent ones googling with info on setting up a media server and also Windows Home Server is pretty new.

So ACS Forums have always come through for me before so any thoughts/ideas or system builders already out there?
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post #2 of 13
10/13/07 at 4:45pm
In my opinion, you don't really need a full-fledged server based central location for your media. For most purposes, a regular computer (i.e., win xp/2000 or similar) with basic shares setup will get you what you want. The shares are visible to "clients" on your home network, therefore the media is visible. A server based setup comes in handy if you have complicated security/sharing requirements that basic file sharing doesn't provide for.

I have a relatively low-end computer setup in the basement which runs win xp. I have 6 internal drives and numerous external drives connected via usb 2.0 and firewire. I have various clients setup throughout the house which utilize the shares. The clients range from 4 win mce 2005 pc's, 2 sonos zp80's and a d-link dsm-320. This setup works well for me, and I have been able to expand at a slow pace (read: affordable ) for both the number of clients and the amount of storage. Currently I have roughly 5 TB of storage, and so far, XP hasn't complained and performance hasn't been a problem, and it's just a simple AMD 3000 processor. Some clients are connected via ethernet (100/1000) and some are wi-fi (a/b/g combos).

Hope this gives you some ideas to think about

thx,
Derek.
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post #3 of 13
10/13/07 at 5:23pm
Are you speaking of streaming without having a PC hooked up to the TV locally?

You would still need some sort of box hooked to the TV, wether a MCE extender, or a XBOX 360.

At that point the server would have to be a MCE (vista or 2005) machine.

The way I have things setup is I have 4 MCE machines and a central server. The server is just an XP box (AMD Athlon XP 2200+, 1GB mem, DVD Drive) with about 2TB of storage. On the server I have all my files, music, movies, pictures, etc. I than use my movies on each of the MCE boxes and play DVDs that way. As to music and pictures, since each of the mahcines I have are now vista I moved the location of the folders to point to the folders on the server. This way everyone has the same content.

Right now I am working on getting recorded TV to share between all the machines

For TV tuning... I have individual tuners in each machine for NTSC and ATSC tuning. But I have always had problems with ATSC tuning since each card was a different gen chipset. And then Vista has problems with the ATI HDTV Wonder. So I started down the HD Homerun path! Much easier now and I cant wait to get another to replace the other two tuners that have problems!
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post #4 of 13
10/13/07 at 6:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nintari View Post

Are you speaking of streaming without having a PC hooked up to the TV locally?

You would still need some sort of box hooked to the TV, wether a MCE extender, or a XBOX 360.

At that point the server would have to be a MCE (vista or 2005) machine.

The way I have things setup is I have 4 MCE machines and a central server. The server is just an XP box (AMD Athlon XP 2200+, 1GB mem, DVD Drive) with about 2TB of storage. On the server I have all my files, music, movies, pictures, etc. I than use my movies on each of the MCE boxes and play DVDs that way. As to music and pictures, since each of the mahcines I have are now vista I moved the location of the folders to point to the folders on the server. This way everyone has the same content.

Right now I am working on getting recorded TV to share between all the machines

For TV tuning... I have individual tuners in each machine for NTSC and ATSC tuning. But I have always had problems with ATSC tuning since each card was a different gen chipset. And then Vista has problems with the ATI HDTV Wonder. So I started down the HD Homerun path! Much easier now and I cant wait to get another to replace the other two tuners that have problems!

That's the thing I was afriad of. Any idea if MCE extenders work with Windows Home Server? The thing I do like about the WHS is that I can setup the account to access my files anywhere. Plus my thought and maybe it can't do this is that say I'm watching tv in bed I can simply use my laptop through remote in and have it stream to that tv. Heck maybe that's not even possible but it would be pretty damn nice.

I suppose I could build a vista based box and keep it near the main tv (simple enough to connect then). And the xbox360 is in the basement however it would be nice to have some way to stream to the master bedroom tv when we get it installed. (new and first house so lot of new things going in). So yes no PC near that tv or xbox360 etc..

An MCE extender would be what though?

I've just now looked into this as I was reading about WHS. However all I really care about is being able to stream video/audio to 3 spots in the house.

Also is it feasible to try and stream video through wireless to different tvs? Or am I better off brining in a new box to build as a vista platform and put two pcs which are basically just temp hard drives (I dunno 120 gig or so) to put video on temporarily depending on my current viewing needs?
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post #5 of 13
10/13/07 at 7:29pm
Unless you have an extremely good connection I wouldn't reccomend Wirless, especially for HD Videos.

I can stream OTA HDTV to my laptop using the HD homerun but if I get too far from the WAP it times out and quits working.

DVD wasnt so bad doing this but again the stronger the connection the better.

That is assuming for 802.11b or g, n I havent got to play with yet.

A single vista home premium box hooked locally to a TV, then using the XBOX 360 as an extender would work well. You could also buy an extender and connect it to your other TV. However the cost of the new extenders is just baout the cost of a XBOX 360 with the HDD lol. Or for that matter a cheap HTPC thrown together.

The only problem you would run in to though is TV use.... if the xbox is using the tuner, then the extender wont be able to... This is one of the reasons I went with multiple HTPCs, each has it's own tuner, each can watch it's own TV program, each can share any media on the network with no problems.

If gaming isn't a priority for you, and playback of blue ray and HD-DVD arent top priority then a Cheap AMD system with the 690G chipset may be exactly what your looking for. You could throw together a system with a 4000+ AM2 CPU, 1GB mem, 690G mobo with DVI or HDMI out, ATSC & NTSC combo Tuner, MCE remote and keyboard, 250GB or 160GB HDD and a DVD burner all in a cheap case for about $430 sans OS (assuming you have one) There was one case I picked up that was a HTPC style case for $39.99... granted it wasnt the best build quality but it was cheap and did the job well. You can decide on a better case and addig the OS and that would obviously build the cost up more.

The server can be anything really, just use XP on it and create your shares. If you want remote access use remote desktop and or install VNC on it, then you can get to it from anywhere.

Also if TV does become a priority look in to WebGuide 4 it is free and allows you to connect via the web to schedule TV recordings.
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post #6 of 13
10/13/07 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nintari View Post

Unless you have an extremely good connection I wouldn't reccomend Wirless, especially for HD Videos.

I can stream OTA HDTV to my laptop using the HD homerun but if I get too far from the WAP it times out and quits working.

DVD wasnt so bad doing this but again the stronger the connection the better.

That is assuming for 802.11b or g, n I havent got to play with yet.

A single vista home premium box hooked locally to a TV, then using the XBOX 360 as an extender would work well. You could also buy an extender and connect it to your other TV. However the cost of the new extenders is just baout the cost of a XBOX 360 with the HDD lol. Or for that matter a cheap HTPC thrown together.

The only problem you would run in to though is TV use.... if the xbox is using the tuner, then the extender wont be able to... This is one of the reasons I went with multiple HTPCs, each has it's own tuner, each can watch it's own TV program, each can share any media on the network with no problems.

If gaming isn't a priority for you, and playback of blue ray and HD-DVD arent top priority then a Cheap AMD system with the 690G chipset may be exactly what your looking for. You could throw together a system with a 4000+ AM2 CPU, 1GB mem, 690G mobo with DVI or HDMI out, ATSC & NTSC combo Tuner, MCE remote and keyboard, 250GB or 160GB HDD and a DVD burner all in a cheap case for about $430 sans OS (assuming you have one) There was one case I picked up that was a HTPC style case for $39.99... granted it wasnt the best build quality but it was cheap and did the job well. You can decide on a better case and addig the OS and that would obviously build the cost up more.

The server can be anything really, just use XP on it and create your shares. If you want remote access use remote desktop and or install VNC on it, then you can get to it from anywhere.

Also if TV does become a priority look in to WebGuide 4 it is free and allows you to connect via the web to schedule TV recordings.

Tv does somewhat matter but mostly streaming dvd matters (HD DVD will mostly be on the main tv although if I could get Blu RAY quality on the pc...).

It's not even cost though it's mostly the fact that pc boxes are huge and for a bedroom tv (on a dresser) it's just kind of in the way. The 360 will be on one tv and the main server will be near the primary it's the 3rd tv that will be an issue. I dunno maybe get a ps3 if I can stream to that?

Heck even the TV with the 360 I'd be ok with sticking an 80 gig pc there for storing temp files to avoid the wireless. It's the bedroom tv 8 months down the road I don't really have room for a big box.
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post #7 of 13
10/13/07 at 11:25pm
The simplest solution for media streaming using WHS is to look into SageTV. They have available a version designed specifically as an 'add-in' to Windows Home Server and it will fully allow streaming SD, HD, and music throughout the house to both media extenders and client pc's (regardless of whether they be Linux, Windows, or Mac).

-PGPfan
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post #8 of 13
10/14/07 at 2:54am
I am by no means an expert, but I think you also need to look at how many sources will pull on the server at once. When you start streaming HD to 4 locations, you will need about 20MB of bandwidth. This information was passed to me whan I was looking at building my server by kapone. You should really read his thread, but maybe not all of it as it is very detailed and lengthy.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=776778

I am not sure the average motherboard will allow this kind of throughput. Definitely not on MB RAID, you would definitely need a card. Some will swear by software RAID, but it is up to you. I did not go with software RAID because I feared the MB dying and not being able to get a dup. I also figure if you are increasing storage past 1TB you are using multiple drives. This is another link that I used when considering building a linux server. I know, I know linux, but linux is very stable and used in the majority of servers, unless you want to consider something as expensive as Windows Server. Also, I considered WHS, but it uses different algorithms and its own, proprietary method of RAID, not RAID 5. WHS is software based.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/content/view/27840/77/

Also, a linux server requires a minimal PC. Here is a link to my planned server.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post11898153

It is expensive only because of the parts I chose in its assembly. The most expensive part of the build is the RAID card. It is my choice due to data protection.

Either way, I am sure you will be happy. Just be sure to have enough BW.

Good luck and keep us posted

Willam O
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post #9 of 13
10/14/07 at 5:34am
Thread Starter 
Well I will definitely have to look into SageTV sounds promising.

I'll take a look at a Linux server the one thing I should mention is that I can really see it streaming to more then one place 99% of the time and maybe never. The gf may use this at some point but as far as she is concerned it's my project she doesn't see any huge benfit from it ( i think that may change once it's here).

Now as to Linux I had a version of it on an old PC and even though I never really got into it (I wasn't into servers or security really at 16-17 years old) it didn't seem overly hard to use especially now that has moved into a graphical ui. I guess I'd be willing to look into it but to be honest the cost of the main server is not a huge concern to me have no problem throwing 1k at it which should have it plenty capable of what I want. And honestly in the end WHS looks rediculously friendly and has some nice features. If I have to setup a card to stream properly it's not the end of the world.

I'm not even against setting up some kind of box near the tv on the first floor since obviously it would stream better directly off the HD then through some type of MCE since I am not planning on wiring the whole house currently.

That being said the only area I have a bit of a problem with a box is the bedroom where it seems like it would be hard to hide the box now maybe I'm wrong and you can build it in some kind of mini atx case? What types of pcs hardware wise are people using if they want a little storage/play box near a tv?
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post #10 of 13
10/14/07 at 9:40am
I've blown off WHS as it does not offer any MCE integration. Two of my co-workers are very keen on it and said that MS has stated they will try very hard to get MCE functionality built into the next WHS.

I have a Vista box in the basement, we have a MCE 2005 box in our bedroom with a MCE Externder in the living room. We'll be replacing the Extender with a 360 at Christmas. I would still like to have a backend for easily recording media to and having it available to any client on the network.

I know at The Green Button there are some write-ups on how to make MCE search network locations for recordings.
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post #11 of 13
10/14/07 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike00 View Post

Well I will definitely have to look into SageTV sounds promising.

I warn you, if you try it you'll never give MCE another thought!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike00 View Post

That being said the only area I have a bit of a problem with a box is the bedroom where it seems like it would be hard to hide the box now maybe I'm wrong and you can build it in some kind of mini atx case? What types of pcs hardware wise are people using if they want a little storage/play box near a tv?

Just get THIS, and when you use it with Sage (running on WHS, of course) it will provide the entire SageTV experience (all the music, DVD, and TV streaming, etc) for $89 and it has no moving parts! Very sweet indeed.

-PGPfan
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post #12 of 13
10/14/07 at 6:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGPFan View Post

I warn you, if you try it you'll never give MCE another thought!



Just get THIS, and when you use it with Sage (running on WHS, of course) it will provide the entire SageTV experience (all the music, DVD, and TV streaming, etc) for $89 and it has no moving parts! Very sweet indeed.

-PGPfan


Does the wireless work ok on that media extender? I have an extremely strong signal and I'm not opposed to upgrading the network. I guess I could build a little box to stick behind the bedroom tv though.

Also any experience of using SageTV with a Comcast DVR box?

And finnally last question is it possible to use the actual server box to stream to the tv or do I need another box in between? Was thinking the closet in the wall directly behind the tv is perfect to put a server.

Appreciate the help from everyone. Normally I figure this stuff out as I go along but since this is going to surround 3 seperate entertainment centers just to start plus multiple laptop connections and pcs unlike most projects I don't just want to jump in. Too much money invested to not know everything going into it or mostly everything.
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post #13 of 13
10/14/07 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike00 View Post

Does the wireless work ok on that media extender? I have an extremely strong signal and I'm not opposed to upgrading the network. I guess I could build a little box to stick behind the bedroom tv though.

My personal experience is with wired LAN, however over at the Sage forums there have been mixed results with wireless - the general consensus being if at all possilble to run wired, then it is highly recommended to do so. Others have had success connecting a wireless bridge rather than using the built-in wireless of the extender. Your best be would be to check out their forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike00 View Post

Also any experience of using SageTV with a Comcast DVR box?

I'm on Dishnetwork here, but I know there are at least a few Comcast folks over at the Sage forum. Does your Comcast box have firewire on it, by chance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike00 View Post

And finnally last question is it possible to use the actual server box to stream to the tv or do I need another box in between? Was thinking the closet in the wall directly behind the tv is perfect to put a server.

Yes, it is possible to stream directly from the server box (assuming it has a decent video card in it), however the media extender I linked to has a built-in hardware decoder which video cards don't have and almost always will look better than directly out of a video card if going SD. HD, on the other hand is currently best with a video card (at least until Sage releases their HD extender next month, which should be the best of both worlds).

-PGPfan
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