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Best dual format player for under 400 bucks ?

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I'm looking to find a dual format dvd player...

But right now it looks like they are all SUPER expensive...

What is the price range of the stand alone dual format players right now ?

Would I be better off going HTPC?
post #2 of 31
$400?

Do you have a time machine? If so go into the future when they retail for $399. You can find some good sales for about $320 then.

BTW, could you bring me back a couple also?
post #3 of 31
Ah...NONE!
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by illnastyimpreza View Post

I'm looking to find a dual format dvd player...

But right now it looks like they are all SUPER expensive...

What is the price range of the stand alone dual format players right now ?

Would I be better off going HTPC?

If you already have a HTPC and you only need to buy a drive, (assuming a recent CPU/GPU) then that will be your cheapest route.
Right now stand alones are what they are. ($700-$1000)

Now if you need to build a HTPC from scratch, you can easily spend that much anyway.
post #5 of 31
HTPC is the only option for anywhere near that price and only then if you add one to an existing PC (which will also need the right level of video card and processor and RAM).

Even then you will need the HD player SW and the cheapest of those is appx $70.

So basically you are SOL for $400.
post #6 of 31
Lets ask this then folks: When do you guys expect to see a decent dual player street for sub-400 or so?
post #7 of 31
That is a good question.

The answer depends on too many things:

1) How many manufacturers start to make them (competition).
2) What happens to the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war (no point making a dual format player if one format dies).
3) General acceptance of HD disc formats in general (if hardly anyone buys either format, it is not worth making players).
4) What happens in the competing HD VOD arena (if you can get the same thing beamed to your DVD, why bother with players?).

I think it is too complex to predict.
post #8 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

That is a good question.

The answer depends on too many things:

1) How many manufacturers start to make them (competition).
2) What happens to the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war (no point making a dual format player if one format dies).
3) General acceptance of HD disc formats in general (if hardly anyone buys either format, it is not worth making players).
4) What happens in the competing HD VOD arena (if you can get the same thing beamed to your DVD, why bother with players?).

I think it is too complex to predict.

verry good point... with standard DVD players being $20 @ walmart... the average consumer is simply not going to spend the extra money to upgrade to "HD" ... especialy if another viable option comes out...

Personaly I would love to go HTPC, and see if I can simply download all my High Def programming...

anyone do this ?
post #9 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

Lets ask this then folks: When do you guys expect to see a decent dual player street for sub-400 or so?

Not anytime soon. the LG is still selling for $799 so maybe in the next 2 years or so!?
post #10 of 31
Quote:


Personaly I would love to go HTPC, and see if I can simply download all my High Def programming...

There are a number of problems with this as well. Another list.

1) You need a big pipe which is spendy and sometimes not available in a given area.
2) The Studios are really paranoid about letting anything get into PCs.
3) Because of (2) the hardware that will work with such DRM'd stuff is kinda limited.

If I had to bet, I would bet that the model we will eventually see will be a rental model like Netflix except the HD will go down to your company owned and locked down HD-DVR sometime during the 24 hours after you ordered it. Then it would give you "x" watches before it deleted itself. This would be very competitive with Netflix, etc. if the cable and satellite companies can talk studios into releasing for this at the same time as the DVD is released. For this to happen, the resistance of big players in the DVD sales and rental market (like Wal-Mart and Netflix) will need to be overcome. There probably will still need to be a market for hard copy discs for those who want to own movies but I think this is kinda small. Speaking personally, there are few things good enough to own.
post #11 of 31
377$ Samsung Blu Ray(used)
http://www.refurbdepot.com/productde...d=pricegrabber
or 399$ PS3 in a couple of weeks

Toshiba HD DVD (new)+5 free movies-199$
http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=TBHDA2


=576$ not too bad considering your getting 5 free movies too
about as cheap as you can get to own both formats
post #12 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

T... There probably will still need to be a market for hard copy discs for those who want to own movies but I think this is kinda small. Speaking personally, there are few things good enough to own.

Aint that the truth...

what the hell is the point of watching the SAME movie twice ??? When there are hundreds of THOUSANDS of new movies to watch ???

right now it looks like I am stuck with an HTPC for dual format...

300 bucks + software correct ???
post #13 of 31
Cable and satellite VOD certainly seem like the most likely LEGAL methods for getting HD movies other than on a physical disc. Virtually all cable and satellite subscriptions require a set-top box anyway and more and more are making that set-top box a DVR. Offering HD movies on-demand is just a logical progression.

One sticking point though is the quality. The HD that I get through my cable provider is highly compressed and doesn't look nearly as good as HD can. HD movies on HD-DVD or Blu-ray completely blow away what I get on my HD movie channels from my cable provider. If HD VOD movies looked no better than the HD movie channels, I'd certainly still be wanting to rent or buy my movies on disc.

That said, I'll still watch a movie now and then on the HD movie channel because it's a movie I hadn't really intended to rent - certainly not one I wanted to own - but I had some minor interest in it and it was on, so I watched it The quality I get basically looks like DVD. The picture is sometimes sharper than DVD, but it also has artefacts due to extra compression, which I would NOT get on a DVD, so overall, I'd say the experience is roughly the same.

It's really tough to say, but ultimately, I think HD movies on disc will primarily be for people who want to own the movie. Renting via VOD - even if the quality isn't as good as on the disc - just makes more sense from a convenience stand-point and it's certainly something I could see people going for. They already have the box, they already have the service - just click a button and watch! Beats going to the rental store and beats waiting for a disc to arrive in the mail.

Jon
post #14 of 31
I tried to get my P4 3.0 Ghz to play an HD-DVD with the X-Box HD Drive this weak end. On the lowest quality settings it was dropping about half the frames and the surround sound audio was all messed up because of the crappy software. Basically you need at least a Core 2 processor and an ATI 2600XT or better video card. Too build a dual format HTPC from scratch will cost you at least $1200. Hardly worth it I must admit. Best bet is two stand alone players right now.
post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

Lets ask this then folks: When do you guys expect to see a decent dual player street for sub-400 or so?

Considering a single fromat player costs this much and more, I'm guessing at least a year.
-JMO
post #16 of 31
[quote=illnastyimpreza;11912958]verry good point... with standard DVD players being $20 @ walmart... /QUOTE]

Well, the people that are buying $20 players are most likely not HDTV owners.
post #17 of 31
Humm.. that is odd as I would consider myself as an Average Consumer. And would think that most would take the time to research things before just buying something when they are spending a large amount of money. With the TV's and DVD players at Walmart I wouldn't even venture into buying from them just based on what models they sell. I'm sorry but like the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Especially with the 20 dollar dvd players they have crappy processing and if I am correct they have a plastic cover over the pick up beam. Where the more expensive players have actual glass that covers the pick up beam that will not scratch from dust as easily and they will play High defination content and upscale with much better results.

As for why purchase a movie? Well because I would rather have the option to view it at any time I want and to show off my Pioneer 50" HD TV to anyone that comes over, with content that they may be familiar with. If it is only available for 24hrs like the horrible Idea of DIVIX when it came out and didn't evolve into anything worth while.
post #18 of 31
Thread Starter 
what about an "upconverting" standard dvd player ??? does this just do the same thing my signal processor in my PJ is doing ??
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by illnastyimpreza View Post

what about an "upconverting" standard dvd player ??? does this just do the same thing my signal processor in my PJ is doing ??

Yep. A few do it better.
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 
I see the HD dvd players around 200 bucks... is it worth picking one up?... (and hoping blue ray doesn't take over)
post #21 of 31
Yes.. end of story and when the Blu Ray players drop pick one up also.
post #22 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

Lets ask this then folks: When do you guys expect to see a decent dual player street for sub-400 or so?

April 2010.
post #23 of 31
Well, there was just a great sale on an LG PC-Optical Dual-Format HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drive for about $285.00. While it's now out of stock (Hot Deals sites posted this and it went quickly), it was the LG GGC-H20L at ncixus.com.
post #24 of 31
Quote:


Too build a dual format HTPC from scratch will cost you at least $1200.

Im building a HTPC from scratch with the LG combo drive (including HDFury) and Im under $1000 still. Its a very powerful PC too!! The good Motherboards have video (HDMI) and digital audio on board so that saves the $200 or so I would have to spend on a video card.

The only question I will have is the speed of the 2 TBs worth of drivers connected over USB to the HTPC
post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by eviltwincustoms View Post

Humm.. that is odd as I would consider myself as an Average Consumer. And would think that most would take the time to research things before just buying something when they are spending a large amount of money. With the TV's and DVD players at Walmart I wouldn't even venture into buying from them just based on what models they sell. I'm sorry but like the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Especially with the 20 dollar dvd players they have crappy processing and if I am correct they have a plastic cover over the pick up beam. Where the more expensive players have actual glass that covers the pick up beam that will not scratch from dust as easily and they will play High defination content and upscale with much better results.

As for why purchase a movie? Well because I would rather have the option to view it at any time I want and to show off my Pioneer 50" HD TV to anyone that comes over, with content that they may be familiar with. If it is only available for 24hrs like the horrible Idea of DIVIX when it came out and didn't evolve into anything worth while.

You are NOT an average consumer You may consider yourself average, but if you do, you are being very kind in your judgement of other consumers.

The "average" consumer's "research" involves asking the 16 year old at Walmart, "this TV any good?" The 16 year old says, "yeah, it's pretty good." "Research" concluded

You actually know about HD-DVD and Blu-ray's existence. You came to a A/V forum and posted about it. You are no where near "average".

Your comment about owning movies is also spot on. Just look at the way people are with rentals. Late fees used to be a huge revenue stream for rental companies because people very often do not watch the movie they rent on the same day they rent it. They rent it, maybe throw it in that night, get distracted or decide to go out instead and several days later, either return the movie without having watched it, or maybe find the time to half-pay attention to it as most people do.

Movies are just a pass time or a distraction for most people. People like movies for some light entertainment. People like us, who watch movies with interest and see them from beginning to end - we're a minority.

The only reason why VOD might actually work is because it could basically just become another "channel" on the TV. People might channel surf for a while, see that nothing good is on, so they'll hit the VOD demand button and order themselves a movie. The thing is, if it erases itself after only 24 hours, I don't think people are going to be willing to pay very much.

VOD right now is essentially pay-per-view, but with a flexible start and finish time. You pay for one movie and can watch it whenever you want within the 24 hour period. But again, the way people actually watch movies - 24 hours isn't enough. One way would be to have it as a "single viewing" VOD, where you can keep it on your DVR for as long as you want after ordering, but once you watch it all the way to the end - that's it.

The other way would be to make VOD service a monthly subscription. You pay the fee upfront and then you can order however many movies you want for the month.

Thing is, that really isn't necessary. The way I think VOD service SHOULD work is like this: You hit the VOD button, you order the movie for a small price and then it lives on your DVR until you erase it. People run out of space on their DVR's all the time and even if you keep a movie or two on there "forever", so what? It's basically the same as Netflix: I could keep a movie or two on disc from Netflix forever, but then I'd only have one or two rental slots in rotation. Keep the movies on your DVR and you now have less space for all your other recordings: same thing more or less.

So if VOD develops that way (and frankly, as a consumer I would really love it if it were like that, so I hope that it does!), then I could definitely see movies on discs, as a whole, dropping in sales and rentals - rentals especially. People will still want to own movies though and discs will still be the best way to do that. Even if you can download a perfect copy online, you'll need to store it somewhere, so a burned copy onto a disc will still happen when hard drive space gets low or you want to take it to a friend's house.

Discs won't die. They just might find themselves sharing the digital distribution options is all. There's no reason why studios can't still make tons of money from downloads and VOD. Heck, they'd simply be increasing the number of available revenue streams. They might rake in a little less revenue from discs, but they'll make more revenue from streams that were very limited or didn't exist at all in the past! More ways to enjoy content for the consumer and more ways to make money for the studios. CDs still sell and so will DVDs and HD discs. These people who can't see that lowering a little revenue in one stream doesn't mean disaster if you create new streams are just dinosaurs and the sooner they all retire, the better!

Jon
post #26 of 31
Thread Starter 
^ interesting post... verrry true about your average "movie watcher"
post #27 of 31
Quote:


Humm.. that is odd as I would consider myself as an Average Consumer. And would think that most would take the time to research things before just buying something when they are spending a large amount of money. With the TV's and DVD players at Walmart I wouldn't even venture into buying from them just based on what models they sell. I'm sorry but like the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Especially with the 20 dollar dvd players they have crappy processing and if I am correct they have a plastic cover over the pick up beam. Where the more expensive players have actual glass that covers the pick up beam that will not scratch from dust as easily and they will play High defination content and upscale with much better results.

the average consumer, walks into Walmart and picks out a cheap DVD player, goes to BlockBuster rents a movie and watches it.

You are not an average consumer if you are worried about such anal things like crappy processing and if I am correct they have a plastic cover over the pick up beam.

The average consumer doesnt know squat about processing and doesnt care!!
post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

the average consumer, walks into Walmart and picks out a cheap DVD player, goes to BlockBuster rents a movie and watches it.

You are not an average consumer if you are worried about such anal things like crappy processing and if I am correct they have a plastic cover over the pick up beam.

The average consumer doesnt know squat about processing and doesnt care!!


Whenever discussing "average" consumers, I always employ the "Mom and Pop" test. That is to say I would simply try to ascertain what they would know, technology-wise, and, more importantly, what they wouldn't know. Now, there will be geeky exceptions to the Mom and Pop rule. But for the majority of people's folks, you know what I'm talking about. They're not citing stats, and if they are, chances are they couldn't really tell you what they really mean.
post #29 of 31
for current HTPC owners that can play 1080p no prob:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post12007119
post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdog View Post

$400?

Do you have a time machine? If so go into the future when they retail for $399. You can find some good sales for about $320 then.

BTW, could you bring me back a couple also?

If you have a time machine, just hop forward until you can determine which HD disc format won the war. Then come back and tell the rest of us.
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