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Xbox 360 automatically resets with HDMI switches - Page 21

post #601 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

What I mean is I disconnected every wire in the stock dongle and it still reboots. From what I read about this particular box is they did away with N and S bridges on the mobo and everything runs through the CPU on a single chip graphics audio etc..

If you disconnected every wire in the dongle and it still reboots, then it should do that even with the dongle not connected and if it does that, then there's nothing that can be done. I really don't think it has anything to do with chipsets differences. This functionality is implemented entirely in firmware.

P.J.
post #602 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidturtles359 View Post

Tried on another TV. Same results. Input switching is fine but power cycle. When turning back on reboots it

The only explanation that I can think of, is that somehow your TV manages to avoid a "hot plug" event on input switching, but can't do that on a power cycle. Still, that theory requires the dongle to be wired incorrectly. Then again you're saying that it behaves that way on a different TV too.

A little explanation here. Per the HDMI standard, if a sink device (TV, monitor, etc) is not actively displaying content from a given input and communicating over the I2C link, the source device will assume that it will receive "hot plug" notification via dedicated pin in the HDMI cable, when the sink device is actively receiving again.

What the 360 does when it recognizes the "hot plug" event is first check the jumper settings. If it sees that 18-20 and 22-24 are present, but not 26-28, then it assumes that an HDMI audio dongle is present and then for unknown reasons, it simply resumes previous operation with no reboot. If it did not recognize the HDMI audio dongle present via the jumpers, but rather it sees a jumper config corresponding to HD component, Composite, S-Video, S-CART, etc, then it freaks out and reboots. No jumpers at all is also accepted as a valid HDMI config since it corresponds to no dongle present.

There has been some speculation that the reason for this is that the 360 thinks that someone is attempting to circumvent HDMI HDCP protection by starting up with HDMI working and playing protected content, but then plugging in an AV cable and hoping that the 360 will auto-switch to component output and allow analog component recording for protected content. This is all speculation. Only Microsoft knows why they've implemented this strategy in the firmware.

I suppose at this point, if I could see pictures of the top and bottom of the dongle with the cover removed, I may be able to see something, but honestly, if it's wired with just pins 18-20 and 22-24 jumpered, it should work. Hmmm....unless there is a problem with the hot plug connection in your HDMI cable. Can you try a different HDMI cable?

P.J.
post #603 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valence01 View Post

The only explanation that I can think of, is that somehow your TV manages to avoid a "hot plug" event on input switching, but can't do that on a power cycle. Still, that theory requires the dongle to be wired incorrectly. Then again you're saying that it behaves that way on a different TV too.

A little explanation here. Per the HDMI standard, if a sink device (TV, monitor, etc) is not actively displaying content from a given input and communicating over the I2C link, the source device will assume that it will receive "hot plug" notification via dedicated pin in the HDMI cable, when the sink device is actively receiving again.

What the 360 does when it recognizes the "hot plug" event is first check the jumper settings. If it sees that 18-20 and 22-24 are present, but not 26-28, then it assumes that an HDMI audio dongle is present and then for unknown reasons, it simply resumes previous operation with no reboot. If it did not recognize the HDMI audio dongle present via the jumpers, but rather it sees a jumper config corresponding to HD component, Composite, S-Video, S-CART, etc, then it freaks out and reboots. No jumpers at all is also accepted as a valid HDMI config since it corresponds to no dongle present.

There has been some speculation that the reason for this is that the 360 thinks that someone is attempting to circumvent HDMI HDCP protection by starting up with HDMI working and playing protected content, but then plugging in an AV cable and hoping that the 360 will auto-switch to component output and allow analog component recording for protected content. This is all speculation. Only Microsoft knows why they've implemented this strategy in the firmware.

I suppose at this point, if I could see pictures of the top and bottom of the dongle with the cover removed, I may be able to see something, but honestly, if it's wired with just pins 18-20 and 22-24 jumpered, it should work. Hmmm....unless there is a problem with the hot plug connection in your HDMI cable. Can you try a different HDMI cable?

P.J.

With the second TV I also used a different HDMI cable and different Xbox. I have pictures of my dongles open but can't post from my phone. Can I email them to you?
post #604 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidturtles359 View Post

With the second TV I also used a different HDMI cable and different Xbox. I have pictures of my dongles open but can't post from my phone. Can I email them to you?

email address sent via PM
post #605 of 644
To throw this out there. Just tried official Ms dongle it didn't have any reboots. So its not my TV or HDMI
post #606 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidturtles359 View Post

To throw this out there. Just tried official Ms dongle it didn't have any reboots. So its not my TV or HDMI

Third party audio break-out dongles have a reputation for causing system resets. Take a quick look at the customer reviews over at amazon.com and you'll see that this is a known issue. Only way to avoid it is to buy an official part or buy an S model console that has a dedicated optical out.
post #607 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidturtles359 View Post

To throw this out there. Just tried official Ms dongle it didn't have any reboots. So its not my TV or HDMI

Here's an annotated version of the picture of the dongle you emailed:



So, this is par for the non-Microsoft dongle course with just pins 18-20 jumpered via solder blob. That's the jumper setting for a VGA cable. As previously mentioned, you need to add a jumper from 22-24, but since on this dongle there are no pins installed in those locations, you'll have to harvest pins from some of the others that you don't need. 14 and 16 are normally left channel audio and if you're using optical Toslink, they're fair game. They can sometimes be a bitch to extract though. Once extracted, shove them carefully into the locations for 22 and 24 and solder blob them together. In a pinch, you can only install pin 24 and jumper with a wire to pin 20/18. Some of these 3rd party dongles have all of the pins installed, making the mod a bit easier, eliminating the need to move pins around.

If you've already done this mod and it still doesn't work, then there has to be something wrong with your 360. Otherwise I don't know where to go from here.

P.J.
post #608 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

Third party audio break-out dongles have a reputation for causing system resets. Take a quick look at the customer reviews over at amazon.com and you'll see that this is a known issue. Only way to avoid it is to buy an official part or buy an S model console that has a dedicated optical out.

Actually, the Monoprice HDMI audio dongle is wired correctly and does not have the issue that the other non-Microsoft dongles do with rebooting on input switching or power cycling.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

The price is right, but some Toslink cables have retention problems with the Monoprice dongle.

P.J.
post #609 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valence01 View Post

Here's an annotated version of the picture of the dongle you emailed:



So, this is par for the non-Microsoft dongle course with just pins 18-20 jumpered via solder blob. That's the jumper setting for a VGA cable. As previously mentioned, you need to add a jumper from 22-24, but since on this dongle there are no pins installed in those locations, you'll have to harvest pins from some of the others that you don't need. 14 and 16 are normally left channel audio and if you're using optical Toslink, they're fair game. They can sometimes be a bitch to extract though. Once extracted, shove them carefully into the locations for 22 and 24 and solder blob them together. In a pinch, you can only install pin 24 and jumper with a wire to pin 20/18. Some of these 3rd party dongles have all of the pins installed, making the mod a bit easier, eliminating the need to move pins around.

If you've already done this mod and it still doesn't work, then there has to be something wrong with your 360. Otherwise I don't know where to go from here.

P.J.

Wow I'm dumb. Lol I assumed that 14,16 were 22,24. Never counted lol. Well I inserted the pins for 22,24. Jumped them. And everything works. I probably could have avoided all this if I counted haha. So I thank you for sticking in there for me. I have two free dongles that work like official Ms ones. Thanks again

Btw for anyone with tritton gaming headsets you can order this dongle for free
post #610 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidturtles359 View Post

Wow I'm dumb. Lol I assumed that 14,16 were 22,24. Never counted lol. Well I inserted the pins for 22,24. Jumped them. And everything works. I probably could have avoided all this if I counted haha. So I thank you for sticking in there for me. I have two free dongles that work like official Ms ones. Thanks again

Btw for anyone with tritton gaming headsets you can order this dongle for free

Glad to hear that you got it working.

P.J.
post #611 of 644
I'd like to find one of the Microsoft-made dongles, are they still on the market?
post #612 of 644
For anyone who is cutting the black looped wire, make sure the switch on the side of the dongle is set to TV, not HDMI. If it's set to HDMI, you will not get digital audio for some reason. I learned the hard way.
post #613 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post

For anyone who is cutting the black looped wire, make sure the switch on the side of the dongle is set to TV, not HDMI. If it's set to HDMI, you will not get digital audio for some reason. I learned the hard way.

The reason you don't get any digital audio if the switch is in the HDTV position and not the TV position, is that in that configuration, none of the 3 pins is grounded and so the 360 doesn't think that there is anything connected. In that case, it doesn't send any digital audio to the Toslink transmitter.

P.J.
post #614 of 644
I have a somewhat newer component and it looks a bit different than the ones I'm seeing posted. Can someone tell me what needs to be cut here ? I don't care if it will never do component again as I have a spare.
I think I see the black loop wire it looks pretty close to the blue/yellow/green that go to the optical, between the red/white/black which are also thin wires (stereo ones i think). What else can be cut off to clean it up..all of the big wires? I don't see any coming/going from the sd/hd selector switch. can the whole grey wire be cut off at the copper wrap?
LL
post #615 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00firebird View Post

I have a somewhat newer component and it looks a bit different than the ones I'm seeing posted. Can someone tell me what needs to be cut here ? I don't care if it will never do component again as I have a spare.
I think I see the black loop wire it looks pretty close to the blue/yellow/green that go to the optical, between the red/white/black which are also thin wires (stereo ones i think). What else can be cut off to clean it up..all of the big wires? I don't see any coming/going from the sd/hd selector switch. can the whole grey wire be cut off at the copper wrap?

I can't tell for certain, but the red wire, white wire and the black wire that disappear into the hot melt glue mess on the switch board, are probably the wires for the switch. You'd have to pull the connector block out of the metal wrapper to tell for certain, but if it works as a component HD and composite SD cable via the switch, then no need to worry about that. Just snip the black loop wire shown in the picture:



Be sure to put the switch in the SD position and you should be good to go.

You can cut off everything to the left of the thin red wire.

P.J.
post #616 of 644
working! no restarts. thanks!!
post #617 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00firebird View Post

working! no restarts. thanks!!

That's great that you got it working. Thanks for sharing a picture of the new variant of component HD cable connector.

P.J.
post #618 of 644
A few thoughts...

1) Most 3rd party dongles cause the Xbox 360 reboot problem.

2) I've heard reports that the Microsoft Official dongle causes problems if used in conjunction with HDMI. I'm not sure if this is the reboot problem, or another problem. But, that's the rumor I've read on multiple sites. Microsoft no longer produces the dongle, but they area available on ebay and other sites. (edit: Below, Valence01 points out that too his knowledge, this not true.)

3) The monoprice dongle is the only dongle that is wired correctly and does not force reboots.

--Now, I have a problem.

I, too, am running HDMI to my tv, but I want to use optical for audio. I bought a Turtle Beach X42 surround sound headset, and I need optical audio to run surround sound. However, I hear rumors that the Mad Catz aftermarket dongle only passes PCM stereo through the optical port (although it may accept 5.1).

So, is anyone using the monoprice cable (or the microsoft official cable) in conjunction with HDMI? And, if so, is the optical signal 5.1 or PCM?

In other words, is it even possible to run HDMI and still get 5.1 audio over optical? ...I'd hate to have a $159 headset that I can't even use for surround.

To be clear, I am running an Xbox 360 Elite with HDMI. I am not running a newer "slim" Xbox.
post #619 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericuser8888 View Post

A few thoughts...

1) Most 3rd party dongles cause the Xbox 360 reboot problem.

2) I've heard reports that the Microsoft Official dongle causes problems if used in conjunction with HDMI. I'm not sure if this is the reboot problem, or another problem. But, that's the rumor I've read on multiple sites. Microsoft no longer produces the dongle, but they area available on ebay and other sites.

3) The monoprice dongle is the only dongle that is wired correctly and does not force reboots.

--Now, I have a problem.

I, too, am running HDMI to my tv, but I want to use optical for audio. I bought a Turtle Beach X42 surround sound headset, and I need optical audio to run surround sound. However, I hear rumors that the Mad Catz aftermarket dongle only passes PCM stereo through the optical port (although it may accept 5.1).

So, is anyone using the monoprice cable (or the microsoft official cable) in conjunction with HDMI? And, if so, is the optical signal 5.1 or PCM?

In other words, is it even possible to run HDMI and still get 5.1 audio over optical? ...I'd hate to have a $159 headset that I can't even use for surround.

To be clear, I am running an Xbox 360 Elite with HDMI. I am not running a newer "slim" Xbox.

1 and 3 are true. 2 is false, as many folks are using the Microsoft HDMI dongle in conjunction with HDMI with no issue. Their isn't any point in using it not in conjunction with HDMI since then you wouldn't have any video at all.

Yes, plenty of people are using the dongle, both the official Microsoft or the Monoprice and it passes 5.1 dolby digital with no issue.

P.J.
post #620 of 644
Valence01, thanks for your input. I have an official Microsoft adapter on the way, and I might pick up monoprice adapter as well just to have a spare (since they are so cheap).
post #621 of 644
sorry for the double post. but I had two more questions that maybe you guys can answer.

I heard that the Mad Catz brand dongle does not support 5.1 over optical, and that the optical on that one only sends PCM stereo. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

And, now Gamestop has their own branded dongle. My local Gamestop only had one Mad Catz in stock but had 3 or 4 Gamestop branded ones, which strangely enough, are not on the web site. --At least, the *packaging* was branded as Gamestop. I did not see another brand on the stuff anywhere, but I did not look very close either. Does anyone have any experience with these?

Regardless, I've got a Microsoft official adapter coming from ebay, and I'll probably order a spare from Monoprice if I have problems with the official one. After all, there appears to be universal agreement that the Monoprice cable is cheap and does quite well without any problems.

So anyway, is the Mad Catz adapter only PCM stereo? Or is that rumor wrong and it does send 5.1? (I don't see why it wouldn't work with PCM, but someone over on the gamestop web site says it's only PCM stereo, so I'm just searching for some clarification from AVSForums, cause you guys usually know what you're talking about.)

And, has anyone had any experience with the Gamestop branded ones? It looks like they just bought up some aftermarket 3rd party adapters and put them in a bag similar to what you would see "used" items in, but these are not being sold as used. $19.99.
post #622 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by genericuser8888 View Post

sorry for the double post. but I had two more questions that maybe you guys can answer.

I heard that the Mad Catz brand dongle does not support 5.1 over optical, and that the optical on that one only sends PCM stereo. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

And, now Gamestop has their own branded dongle. My local Gamestop only had one Mad Catz in stock but had 3 or 4 Gamestop branded ones, which strangely enough, are not on the web site. --At least, the *packaging* was branded as Gamestop. I did not see another brand on the stuff anywhere, but I did not look very close either. Does anyone have any experience with these?

Regardless, I've got a Microsoft official adapter coming from ebay, and I'll probably order a spare from Monoprice if I have problems with the official one. After all, there appears to be universal agreement that the Monoprice cable is cheap and does quite well without any problems.

So anyway, is the Mad Catz adapter only PCM stereo? Or is that rumor wrong and it does send 5.1? (I don't see why it wouldn't work with PCM, but someone over on the gamestop web site says it's only PCM stereo, so I'm just searching for some clarification from AVSForums, cause you guys usually know what you're talking about.)

And, has anyone had any experience with the Gamestop branded ones? It looks like they just bought up some aftermarket 3rd party adapters and put them in a bag similar to what you would see "used" items in, but these are not being sold as used. $19.99.

I don't have any direct experience with the Madcatz HDMI audio dongle, but from what I know about how these dongles work, I don't see how they could be limited to 2 ch PCM. There is just a simple electrical to toslink optical translator that converts the S/PDIF digital bitstream from the Xbox to light pulses. All Toslink optical connections carry the exact same bandwidth. 2 ch PCM uses the full 1.5 Mbps Toslink bandwidth. DD5.1 uses precisely the same 1.5 Mbps bandwidth. There is no rocket science there. If the optical connection works at all, then you can get DD5.1 no matter how screwed up the wiring is inside the dongle.

On the subject of the Monoprice dongle, there are a few reports of issues with the mechanical connection of the Toslink cable. It seems that Toslink connectors vary with respect to some dimension that affects how well the cable holds in the dongle's connector, with some cables apparently not holding very tightly and falling out occasionally, while others are held plenty tightl with no issue. I have a couple of the Monoprice dongles and it isn't clear how to recognize which Toslink cables hold tightly and which don't. I have plenty of Toslink cables from which to choose. So, it doesn't matter to me, but if you don't, then worst case, a piece of tape would keep the cable connected together with the dongle. The good cables have a nice solid "click" feel when connected, while the not so good cables just go together pretty mushy with barely any click at all.

P.J.
post #623 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valence01 View Post

Just snip the black loop wire shown in the picture:



Be sure to put the switch in the SD position and you should be good to go.

You can cut off everything to the left of the thin red wire.

P.J.

Hi, am I right in thinking I could cut all the wires to the left of the red wire and remove the cable completely?

cheers
post #624 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffnut View Post

Hi, am I right in thinking I could cut all the wires to the left of the red wire and remove the cable completely?

cheers

There's a thin red wire and a thicker red wire. Everything to the left of the small red wire can go. Probably you should trim the wires right up against the connector so as to no leave any dangling wires that could short to one another.

P.J.
post #625 of 644
Cool, thx.
post #626 of 644
I'm new here having found this site while looking for info on how to fix this problem.

For those with the audio dongle either Microsoft or aftermarket (except the one mentioned that is wired right) with a rebooting Xbox problem just open up the connector on the cable and solder pins 22 & 24 together. Just did that and my Xbox 360 does not reboot any more when I switch TV inputs while using the HDMI cable. Looking at the rear of the connector the two pins will be just to the left of pins 20 & 18 (the pins that are already soldered together).
post #627 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcinvale View Post

I'm new here having found this site while looking for info on how to fix this problem.

For those with the audio dongle either Microsoft or aftermarket (except the one mentioned that is wired right) with a rebooting Xbox problem just open up the connector on the cable and solder pins 22 & 24 together. Just did that and my Xbox 360 does not reboot any more when I switch TV inputs while using the HDMI cable. Looking at the rear of the connector the two pins will be just to the left of pins 20 & 18 (the pins that are already soldered together).

While some folks complain that the official Microsoft HDMI audio dongle has the reboot issue, to date, no one has produced any evidence that the dongle was wired incorrectly. The 3rd party dongles available here and there, are almost always wired incorrectly (monoprice excepted).

For the few cases reported where the official Microsoft dongle is claimed to have the reboot issue, the cause is not known. In at least one case, it turned out not actually to be an official Microsoft dongle.

P.J.
post #628 of 644
IIRC mine is the official Microsoft dongle.

Any HDMI AUDIO dongle that doesn't have pins 18 & 20 soldered together and 22 & 24 soldered together is wired incorrectly as soldering those for pins together (22 & 24 to each other and 18 & 20 to each other) tell the Xbox you are using the HDMI audio dongle.

That said for any dongle with those pins soldered together and still rebooting there is either something else in the plug miss wired or a problem with the xbox360 itself.
post #629 of 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcinvale View Post

IIRC mine is the official Microsoft dongle.

Any HDMI AUDIO dongle that doesn't have pins 18 & 20 soldered together and 22 & 24 soldered together is wired incorrectly as soldering those for pins together (22 & 24 to each other and 18 & 20 to each other) tell the Xbox you are using the HDMI audio dongle.

That said for any dongle with those pins soldered together and still rebooting there is either something else in the plug miss wired or a problem with the xbox360 itself.

A genuine Microsoft HDMI audio dongle has the hologram sticker on it. I'd be very surprised to find proof that Microsoft is making these dongles wired incorrectly.

That said, some folks have problems anyway with cause unknown.

P.J.
post #630 of 644
Mine probably was not official Microsoft as it don't have a hologram on it.
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