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Bram Stoker's Dracula comparison *PIX* - Page 8

post #211 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

As much as I love this film in never ceases to amaze me how hideous Lucy's wedding dress is.

Yeah but she sure looks spooky in it when she rises from the grave.
post #212 of 763
Thread Starter 
post #213 of 763
wow, that last comparison is insane.

the difference is enough to completely change the feel of the movie.
post #214 of 763
yep, revisionist.

was a over the top, warm, firelit scene, now looks almost b+w.
post #215 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post




here are shots of this scene from the official book.





looks more like the sb dvd.


post #216 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Hiya oink! (buffy says "WOOF!")

Hi Buff!
Quote:
Actually the most they said officially was "a representative from zoetrope" relayed Mr. Coppolla's wishes re: the new transfer to the Sony guys doing the new transfer" Nowhere did they say that he himself supervised it or even watched it. In the commentary recorded over a year before the release, the new transfer hadn't been done yet. In the commentary, Coppolla also confirmed that he hadn't seen the film in years. The film saved his and zoetrope's financial booties so I think he looks back on it more as a job than some of his other more personal films.

IIRC, paidgeek said that Coppola/Zoetrope supervised the mastering and transfer.
Hmmm....my memory must be failing me...again.
post #217 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Hi Buff!


IIRC, paidgeek said that Coppola/Zoetrope supervised the mastering and transfer.
Hmmm....my memory must be failing me...again.

It wouldn't matter if Coppola himself supervised the mastering some will never be happy. If people don't like what they see.... then don't buy it.
post #218 of 763
too late for many. Most simply wanted an HD version of a film that they loved and thought they knew. Often when a director revises something, it's at least announced or discussed. In this case, we were told 3rdhand that EVERY version, including the Coppolla approved LD, including the theatrical prints were wrong and this for the first time is accurate. Also, none of this was mentioned until after the initial, mostly negative reviews started coming in.
Flames that were, well, flame color are suddenly green like in the Dracula crawling down the wall shot. Many shots are now virtually drained of color, some shots are crushed into blackness and previously legible words superimposed over the image of Harker for effect are now invisible.
Just seemed very odd. Films are indeed entitled to be "revised" or "reduxed" but at least be upfront about it. It looks dramatically different now, probably by choice, not because every other version was wrong. Many of us just wanted a good HD version of the film that we remember and dug in the first place.

And at last with Xylon's shots, those claiming that we have inferior displays or our calibration is "off" are at last vindicated for our initial comments. It IS dark now in many shots and the colors ARE very destaurated now.
and oink, I actually got an email from a rep at zoetrope and he said that a rep from zoetrope relayed coppolla's wishes to the sony guys.

post #219 of 763
So is it safe to say that Coppola "phoned it in"?

It also could be possible that this is an unintentionally botched transfer. I can understand the changed color timings but the clipped black levels are really strange. But then you have the excessive softness... This transfer is just bad. Worse than Traffic because at least the colors and shadow detail weren't screwed up on that.
post #220 of 763
It could be a botched transfer and/or a poor master.
It could be that Sony simply misunderstood what Coppola wanted.
It could be the source material just plain sucks.
It could be Coppola is a frickin' idiot.

The truth is we probably will never know who/what f*cked the dog on this release.
post #221 of 763
Xylon's screenshots are taken directly off the discs. Has nothing to do with my calibration or PJ.
Take it up with him.
post #222 of 763
I liked the funny reply better.

We get it. You hate the encode. Some of us love it and think it's as good as it gets (or at least have no reason to trust paidgeek, zoetrope, etc less than nigh 20 year old memories and picture books as credible reference to 1080p PQ).

Stop beating a dead horse and let's agree to disagree.
post #223 of 763
agreed.

But remember, people bitching got the new "The Fifth Element" BD done.
If nobody had complained, we all would have been stuck with the first transfer.


and we just moved back east from Cali! COLD here!

post #224 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

wow, that last comparison is insane.

the difference is enough to completely change the feel of the movie.

You sir have trusted your insinct. The emotional impact of the scene(s) has now changed drastically.
post #225 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

I liked the funny reply better.

We get it. You hate the encode. Some of us love it and think it's as good as it gets (or at least have no reason to trust paidgeek, zoetrope, etc less than nigh 20 year old memories and picture books as credible reference to 1080p PQ).

Stop beating a dead horse and let's agree to disagree.

You love or like the new BD encode? Are you letting this people tell you what to like? Do they have the final say? I have seen your other posts, you are not a J6P and I assume you have seen enough movies to understand the style in expressing hightened emotions through sight and sound.

The BD version killed it.
post #226 of 763
Haven't visited this thread in awhile. I got Dracula and thought it was pretty good, definitely not the best release. I never bought any of the DVD releases, and I was only 11 when I saw it in the theater, so my recollection is nil.

After seeing the last couple sets of screen caps, however, THAT'S the movie I want to watch. With any luck we'll get something done with it. I won't hold my breath though.
post #227 of 763
Thread Starter 
Lets go back in time . . . . .

AVS Forum Archive 2

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...play.php?f=150

Search for Fifth Element. Notice any similar pattern? Even tough a majority agree its a piece of you know what there is still a few that thinks it looks good or "its not as bad as everyone think it is". Some people even blame the only BD player available at that time the Samsung BD-P1000. Then other players came out and no difference.

It took a while but our constant whining produced the remastered edition. Sharper, more detailed and cleaner version. A better version. A triumph for AV enthusiasts.
post #228 of 763
So true, Xylon. It's because of threads like this with actual screenshots that more people become aware of these issues. With any luck someday we'll have a corrected Dracula, POTC (framing), a real HD release of Traffic, and maybe even the proper versions of those 1080i Warner titles.
post #229 of 763
true, kram.
we did at least get a new 1080p transfer of full metal jacket that's supposedly much better than the first.

post #230 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

true, kram.
we did at least get a new 1080p transfer of full metal jacket that's supposedly much better than the first.


Do you not think that the re release of FMJ is better than the original? I hope that was tongue and cheek....
post #231 of 763
My LD of this is pristine. I am glad I didn't pony up for this one on BD.
The LD transfer seems really good to me.
post #232 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Do you not think that the re release of FMJ is better than the original? I hope that was tongue and cheek....

wasn't being sarcastic. Haven't seen either but all reports are that the new is better. Would be nice to get WB to release new versions of the rest like "The perfect storm"

post #233 of 763
I think they could save face and release a version of this in a foreign market with a new transfer. That way they could still consider this version the "definitive" Coppola version, yet all us fans would buy the other version too and be in bliss!
post #234 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

It took a while but our constant whining produced the remastered edition. Sharper, more detailed and cleaner version. A better version. A triumph for AV enthusiasts.

I wouldn't go around taking credit for that one Xylon.

You're good at what you do (ie. screengrabs and comparison shots), but let's not go crazy and think you and a bunch of AVS rabble rousers changed the entire marketing philosophy over at Sony Pictures.
post #235 of 763
Thread Starter 
Of course, of course. No credit claimed.

In the end its still a win win.
post #236 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

It took a while but our constant whining produced the remastered edition. Sharper, more detailed and cleaner version. A better version. A triumph for AV enthusiasts.

Truth.
And a helluva achievement on our part...
post #237 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

You love or like the new BD encode? Are you letting this people tell you what to like? Do they have the final say? I have seen your other posts, you are not a J6P and I assume you have seen enough movies to understand the style in expressing hightened emotions through sight and sound.

The BD version killed it.

I'm only letting me tell me what I like and why. Bram Stoker's Dracula is one of my favorite movies for numerous reasons from the closest rendition to the novel, the tragedy of the character and story, the imagery and sets and costumes of the Eastern Church, to the redemption achieved at the end, etc etc.

I definitely disagree that the Blu-ray killed it. This movie quite simply has never looked better to mine eyes. Maybe a new release (if not SUper-Blu 2160p future version) will improve upon it and answer the grievances of Dave Mack... and maybe not. Obviously my bet would be contrary to that...

As I posted above, I just don't find 20 year old memories and pictures from books and previous standard def releases more credible than the word of FFC (or more precisely those who represent him), Zoetrope, Robert Harris, and Paidgeek on intent... I can certainly appreciate the sentiments of those who don't like the difference in color tone, even if I disagree with them. I can quite vehemently scorn the claims that this release isn't much better than standard def when it is quite obviously way beyond SD.

I don't think the Fifth Element is an effective analogy since those that be admitted to issues from the beginning and there were very few (if any) defenders. I do think there were was much overreaction, if not hyperbole to the first release but definitely agree on undeniable issues with others. Not so much with Dracula.
post #238 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

wasn't being sarcastic. Haven't seen either but all reports are that the new is better. Would be nice to get WB to release new versions of the rest like "The perfect storm"


FMJ is a movie that I enjoy a little more every time I see it. I never purchased the original Blu Ray release because I read reviews of the poor quality. I did purchase the remastered version, and it is a very large step up over the original SD DVD.
post #239 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

I can certainly appreciate the sentiments of those who don't like the difference in color tone, even if I disagree with them.

Although I am not thrilled with the new color tone (or space), I can live with it.
My real complaint is the crushed blacks, and softness that is a too bit much for a film of this vintage.
post #240 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Trust your instincts. We have seen a lot of movies and their basic styles. Don't let so called insiders tell you what you should be seeing.



So Xylon, are you trying to tell us that Robert Harris, the expert of motion picture film as we know it, doesn't know what he's talking about when he says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris View Post

Now that I've received a BD copy of Bram Stoker's Dracula, and have spent quality time with it, my immediate reaction is that finally I have a high definition (BD) version of a film that I've always enjoyed.

This is somewhat tempered, however, by the public reaction which has been coming from any number of directions. And these reactions, commentaries and reviews have virtually all been wrong.

and

Quote:
They've screened the original approved answer print and have meticulously matched the HD master to that print.

and then

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The color in this release finally matches that of the original prints -- controlled, colorful when necessary -- but dark. The blacks on this release work well, and shadow detail, when needed is at hand.

also

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Resolution is beautiful. Flesh tones, for both the living as well as the dead, replicate the original tones of the first 35mm prints. Dupe generations are less finely resolved, but work as they did originally.

and finally

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So here's the bottom line.

Not only is there nothing wrong with this release, it is one of the most perfect to come from the Sony vaults. Those of you who know of me, are aware that Sony and I don't always agree. But when they do something correctly, they are to be honored for their efforts. And this time, they are to be honored.

Everything here is correct, handled with precision, professionalism and a obvious love for the art that is our cinema.

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