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Bram Stoker's Dracula comparison *PIX* - Page 9

post #241 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

I'm only letting me tell me what I like and why. Bram Stoker's Dracula is one of my favorite movies for numerous reasons from the closest rendition to the novel, the tragedy of the character and story, the imagery and sets and costumes of the Eastern Church, to the redemption achieved at the end, etc etc.

I definitely disagree that the Blu-ray killed it. This movie quite simply has never looked better to mine eyes. Maybe a new release (if not SUper-Blu 2160p future version) will improve upon it and answer the grievances of Dave Mack... and maybe not. Obviously my bet would be contrary to that...

As I posted above, I just don't find 20 year old memories and pictures from books and previous standard def releases more credible than the word of FFC (or more precisely those who represent him), Zoetrope, Robert Harris, and Paidgeek on intent... I can certainly appreciate the sentiments of those who don't like the difference in color tone, even if I disagree with them. I can quite vehemently scorn the claims that this release isn't much better than standard def when it is quite obviously way beyond SD.


Actually, the movie isn't 20 years old yet and I've seen it at a revival at Moma years AFTER the first VHS release, it looked pretty much the same brightness and color-wise as the VHS so the "20 year old memories" is not exactly accurate.

And I am far from the only one who dislikes the new "look".
Read back through this or the other Dracula threads here or on any of the other sites. There are dozens of people who agree with me. The majority of reviews have been mixed to very bad. When I first heard some of the initial reviews, I actually DEFENDED it for days without seeing it.
Then when I saw it, I thought, wow, just looks wrong in many scenes.
I was then criticised, attacked, banned at BluRay.com, had my gear considered, "inferior" or "not calibrated", (it is neither and Xylon's screengrabs match mine almost precisely as well as mine and ither's perceptions, we said it looked darker and less saturated, Xylon's grabs confirm this)

I mean, it's fine to say that this is now the preferred look. John Badham has said that he always wanted to shoot the 1979 Frank Langella Dracula in B+W but Universal refused, so when he finally got it for home video, he stripped out about 90% of the color, kind of like a sleepy hollow re-imagining and the end result just looked bad.
That's what many here think with this. However they chose to tweak the color, it looks very digital, unnatural and computer processed, it now almost looks like a badly colorized film and nothing like the version most of us remember from previous releases.
post #242 of 763
You're right, it's merely 12+ years old to be precise depending when you start the clock.
post #243 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

You're right, it's merely 12+ years old to be precise depending when you start the clock.

This came out in '92 . . .
post #244 of 763
Has Coppola commented on BSD since it was released?
After it has been out there and reviewed?
post #245 of 763
Thread Starter 
post #246 of 763
Thread Starter 
This scene where Dracula is dying I believe he is looking at something bright. Something that illuminates the scene. Am I right?
post #247 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

This scene where Dracula is dying I believe he is looking at something bright. Something that illuminates the scene. Am I right?

It was always intended that there be no sources of illumination throughout the film. Hence, even a full moon would reveal nothing but pitch black.

Thoug your reference to illumination is not lost on me, I could not resist that Lucasfilm-like response.
post #248 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

You're right, it's merely 12+ years old to be precise depending when you start the clock.

But I also saw it years later at a revival. 35mm print.

post #249 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

It was always intended that there be no sources of illumination throughout the film. Hence, even a full moon would reveal nothing but pitch black.

Thoug your reference to illumination is not lost on me, I could not resist that Lucasfilm-like response.

LOL! I wonder what the production team will say after someone altered their Academy Award winning work? I think they won several and that's before the BD release. Its soooooooooooo convenient that the so called insiders/experts never mentioned this


ACADEMY AWARDS NOMINATIONS
Art Direction
Costume Design (WIN)
Makeup (WIN)
Sound Editing (WIN)

Total Nominations: 4
Total Wins: 3


http://boxofficemojo.com/oscar/movie...ersdracula.htm
post #250 of 763
Xylon, can you basically explain to me how your grabs are indeed representative of the actual BD's image? I am trying to reference your grabs there to prove that my earlier observations were accurate and not that my equipment was "off"
now they're implying that your BD grabs do not "match" at all what they're seeing.


thanks
post #251 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Xylon, can you basically explain to me how your grabs are indeed representative of the actual BD's image? I am trying to reference your grabs there to prove that my earlier observations were accurate and not that my equipment was "off"
now they're implying that your BD grabs do not "match" at all what they're seeing.


thanks

All they need to do is click on the first page of my BD&HD comparison threads. It is explained there. And if they don't match then dont worry about them. Not much we can do about that. Not everyone knows how to accurately calibrate their HT. Some people have their preferences.

If they properly calibrate their system (ISF, Spyder or even eyeballing it using DVE or AVIA) the image will closely match what I'm posting.
post #252 of 763
Thanks! I think your shots almost exactly match my perceptions.
My PJ, (well regarded Mits hc3000u) is indeed calibrated and I still think the BD is disappointing. When I kvetched about the black crush and things now being invisible, I was told either I had an LCD PJ and THAT was the reason or my calibration was off, (interesting that it was fine for the SB dvd but only "off" for the BD!) With your fab grabs, I feel somewhat exonerated.

post #253 of 763
Nearly everybody is complaining about this release. I had a friend email today telling me he screened it last night and it sucked.

I am greatful for AVS here. It has saved me a lot of frustration in not buying quite a few titles now.

So DAVE MACK in my eyes you were right all along!!! Exhonorated +++++ in my book.
post #254 of 763
Thanks, John!

Everyone is indeed entitled to make up their own minds about the changes to this title. Some DO like it and that's cool. I just didn't appreciate earlier here and on other sites when people accused me of having some agenda, distorting the sitch or having crappy, uncalibrated equipment. Hell, at BD.com they banned me and were still badmouthing me days later for simply posting my opinion which I tried to back up with screenshots.
Thanks to Xylon for his hard and exemplary work.

post #255 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

"That is the reason why earlier video releases don't matter."

-Robert Harris

Let us all ponder that statement for the time being and all its implications.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...32&postcount=1

I'd really like to know where Robert Harris gets his info. From his postings you'd think he's personally seen the IP and knows first hand about the mastering of this release. Or is he reading a press release from a rep?
post #256 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieper View Post

I wouldn't go around taking credit for that one Xylon.

You're good at what you do (ie. screengrabs and comparison shots), but let's not go crazy and think you and a bunch of AVS rabble rousers changed the entire marketing philosophy over at Sony Pictures.

11-28-07



Posted 08-28-07

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=898666

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900275

AVS rabble rousers scored another one
post #257 of 763
Yep it works to make some noise and complain about bad HD releases, and my shots go out to the people who do so

I think that Dracula should be the next re-release because it suffers from some of the worst black crush I have ever seen on any format.

I think that it it worse than the POTC framing issue, a lot worse in fact, and I was the one who discovered the POTC framing problem.....

So Dave Mack and Xylon, keep "fighting" because it actually does matter
post #258 of 763
Is there another forum where this kind of stuff gets noticed? Because I think if Denner hadn't have noticed and Xylon hadn't have helped with captures and getting the word out then I don't think Disney would've fixed it so fast or even at all.
post #259 of 763
Thread Starter 
post #260 of 763
You know, if it wasn't for the ugly crushed blacks it would look semi-tolerable. The excessive softness though is hard to get over. Is there any shot on the BRD that looks "sharp"?
post #261 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

LOL! I wonder what the production team will say after someone altered their Academy Award winning work? I think they won several and that's before the BD release. Its soooooooooooo convenient that the so called insiders/experts never mentioned this


ACADEMY AWARDS NOMINATIONS
Art Direction
Costume Design (WIN)
Makeup (WIN)
Sound Editing (WIN)

Total Nominations: 4
Total Wins: 3


http://boxofficemojo.com/oscar/movie...ersdracula.htm


Haha. I mentioned that somewhere once too, if not here, then at HTF. The only thing not affected by this release is the sound; everything else it was nominated for (and won)...altered.

Maybe this revision was some kind of angry attack on the film for not winning art direction. How ya like the art direction now?!
post #262 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

You know, if it wasn't for the ugly crushed blacks it would look semi-tolerable. The excessive softness though is hard to get over. Is there any shot on the BRD that looks "sharp"?

The softness and black crush are amazingly bad on this release. But even if those two aspects were fixed, the Superbit's color palette just seems much more effective than what we are being given here.

This is like the "Dracula : Craptastic BD Edition". And it's a shame.

I really can't believe it has any serious support from ANYONE.

oleus
post #263 of 763
Wow this is the first time I jumped onto this thread. I was thinking about purchasing this movie, I have never seen it. Now I am skeptical. Thanks for the screen shot comparisons Xylon!
post #264 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernoSoul View Post

Wow this is the first time I jumped onto this thread. I was thinking about purchasing this movie, I have never seen it. Now I am skeptical. Thanks for the screen shot comparisons Xylon!

I would definitely rent it first (if you can do so cheaply), especially since you probably just missed a bunch of chances to score it for $9.99 or thereabouts.
post #265 of 763
One of my favorite films....I sold my Superbit version on eBay....The colors look way too muted ( i don't have a problem with everything being darker but it's affected the color on a lot of scenes ) on this new edition if the screenshots are anything to go by....The fire scenes near the end should surely be more colorful with the fire on peoples faces....wish i could remember how this looked at the cinema where i saw it twice ( but i can't remember )
post #266 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

I would definitely rent it first (if you can do so cheaply), especially since you probably just missed a bunch of chances to score it for $9.99 or thereabouts.

This may just be a rent instead of a purchase.
post #267 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

You know, if it wasn't for the ugly crushed blacks it would look semi-tolerable. The excessive softness though is hard to get over. Is there any shot on the BRD that looks "sharp"?

Still looking . . . .

Any help there guys? Timestamps? Anything?!
post #268 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernoSoul View Post

This may just be a rent instead of a purchase.

This title has been on BOGO for like 1 meeeeeelion times already. It can be had for less than ten bux! You can always wait for another BOGO (probably when Bourne 3 is released) in a couple of weeks.
post #269 of 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Still looking . . . .

Any help there guys? Timestamps? Anything?!

How about the shot of the carriage going towards the castle that riled a lot of people up? This one:



And I'd be really curious in these, not sure of the timestamps:





post #270 of 763
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

How about the shot of the carriage going towards the castle that riled a lot of people up? This one:

Will work on it.
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