Bram Stoker's Dracula comparison *PIX* - Page 2

Talk about splitting hairs...let me get my glasses on.

has the crack pipe been passed around?, the BD is by FAR the best looking, what is the problem here?

just because this doesn't look like Crank people/fanboys have to get their panties in a wad

-Gary

Which Francis Ford Coppola?

I'm sure back in 1992 he was pleased with the film element that was used to make the theatrical prints. The question is which of these transfers looks most like that. I'd bet the HBO version is because it's not as bright and warm as the Superbit version and it doesn't have the color tinkering of the BRD/Voom.

The difference is obvious to me... :/

Gary, it's not just that. Huge portions of the film are now radically different than before and considerably darker as well.

It's those changes/tweaks that are the problem. If shadow detail is indeed clipped and the moonlight is now gray instead of blue then forget it. Sorry, Francis. I don't want your Dracula Redux.

I couldn't agree more. I love the subdued colors of this film. I think maybe they need a higher quality tv and/or calibration. It's the look of this movie that makes it work.

I did enjoy the BD presentation very much, but I haven't seen the film on any other medium in years, so I have no idea what is correct. I want to thank Xylon, Dave Mack and all of the other people who have put so much effort into these comparisions. This is the kind of stuff that makes internet forums worthwhile.

It has nothing to do with calibration.
This film has NEVER been associated with subdued colors, ever. From theatrical prints to VHS, Laserdisc, previous HD transfers and DVDs to the official book of the film.
It was always considered a VERY over the top, super colorful film by pretty much everyone. Look at the theatrical reviews from when it came out.

I was thinking the same exact thing....I feel we should not have to do this with BR or HD DVD. Either its better than the SD DVD (superbit) or other Or its Not.

"by far"? That's overstating just a tad, don'tcha think?

Dracula aside for the moment, I have noticed some distinct differences between some PAL and NTSC Superbits. Some Superbit NTSC/PAL movies look exactly alike, but some like "Lawrence of Arabia" and "Fifth Element" seem to have been done at a later date and have improved color grading AND better perceived resolution. Just to clarify, this isnt just a PAL-NTSC difference, but different transfer and compression used for the two releases.

I have not compared the different Superbit releases of Dracula, but I do own the PAL Superbit.

I will dig out my copy over the next week and get PAL screendumps of these shots.

HM, Gary from DVDbeaver did some comparisons.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/dracula.htm

While the bluray cap there looks the best it is not impressive at all. Sheesh.

IMO anyone who says it is way better than the dvd in terms of resolution is kidding themselves and they are on the "crack pipe" heh

The interlacing artifacts, please tell me you see them on the VOOM? Cause I sure do.

Thanks. I just had a quick look at my PAL Superbit and it looks the same color and tone as the NTSC Superbit, so nothing new revealed here.

Also checked out the DVD beaver shots which indicate the same thing, but one thing to note is that the NTSC Superbit achieves its 'sharpness' by the use of edge enhancement, which the PAL doesnt suffer from. (look at the edge of the dome in the shots) This is a recurring issue for me with DVDBeaver as some of its reviewers cant see edge enhancement when its staring them in the face (far more than this example), and rate artifically sharpened and over saturated color images over more natural ones.

The only 'Fanboy' in here Gary is you aparantly.

I agree with what the Zoetrope representative said about the earlier releases. They look too Orange in the fire lit scenes and others. The Supebit and others look like they have an orange filter slapped all over the screen. Look at the pictures were Mina seduces Helsing as an example. A fire lit camp will not drown out all the colors of people and their sorroundings that much. Technically. These images are from Dave Mack without the sloppy writing. I think they could of balance the picture instead of swingin one way or the other. A compromise if you will.

SB

BR


SB

BR


SB to me seems to overwelm the whole image with Orange and the BR has some orange but not enought. Some areas look like they were lit with Florecent lights.

Now these images from the book that Dave Mack has, they seem balanced. Some orange were i think it should be and dark with some detail were the fire should not reach. These are from different scene so it might not seem fair, but they could of made mix both orange and muted colors to find a balance.
BOOK



Now this is just my opinion. I dont claim to be an expert on cinema or photography. Coppala originaly could of been portraying
an atmosphere of a woman's passion, burning hot since the Vamps were making her Horny. Fire, hot, horny and it might not "work" with muted reds. I might be wrong and if you know please enlighten us. I added this for the sake of arguement. This is one movie that's worth dissecting. What do you think?

Dave thanks for the images. The Originals can be found here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=915281&page=8

sorry about that dude, I wasn't aware of the color differences within the film because I haven't viwed it yet, what little I did sample was pretty good, but if the color palette and tempature are different then that does need explaining

-Gary

Yeah, I still like the BR version.
It's just different.
Had we seen the BR version in the theater I think some of us wouldn't have complained about this release.
It's still worth owning IMHO. It doesn't look bad at all. It just looks drastically different.

What irk'd me about all this wasn't so much the changes as how the explanantion was handled. I can empathize with the frustration of the people (and the insiders whom are in contact with them) who worked hard on the BR release when reading people thought the changes were a mistake. But some of their comments here and "on other boards" showed a lack of tact and professionalism. How can any fan of this film be blamed for being upset at changes? Their general vibe was : "You were wrong to like the film's look all these years and you are wrong to be upset now. You are stupid to have thought something was wrong in the first place and you should be thankfull us insiders even have contact with you. Now read this top 10 list I wrote to mock you, solely for the entertainment of me and other insders"

It forever changed my opinions about some of those very people.

I have actually watched it again and I'm getting used to the changes. Some are good, (vamp Lucy in crypt scene DOES look creepier now) some are not IMHO, some of the now desaturated scenes look more like a Tim Burton film like Sleepy Hollow, (the look of which I do love, but it's different) just strike me as very out of place now though.

Actually Gary is very neutral and about the fairest, most objective member you will find here at AVS.

I have to agree. I finally watched a Netflix copy this weekend.

The crypt scene is better with a white wedding dress instead of blue-ish.

The Mina/Van Helsing scene outside the castle looks awful. I think the color was drained to make the brides look stark white but it also removes all of the orange from the firelight. The flames look white and it looks lousy.

Mina's dress (with vine and leaf design) now looks more green than blue (good) but Lucy's orange dress (as stated by the costume designer in the extras) looks too red.

You were saying about fanboys?

What I meant was that Gary has had both HDdvd and BD for quite a long time and doesn't tend to champion of favor one over the other as far as I can tell.

Agree - Some of the Mixed Bag statements were accurate as well. I almost want to flip a coin to see which version I keep.

This is the "Experience High Definition"???
Sony with things like this will lose the war, I hope so.

Yeah, Sony did it.

Gary was referring to the screen caps comparisons. When I first started reading AVS, the first debate I entered was a strong disagreement with one of Gary's posts. Although now knowing him puts his comments in better context and I know now I actually agreed with him. He's certainly one of the more "passionate" posters on AVS (and at times polarizing) but he is neutral. I might not agree with all of his posts. But because I know he's only in this for the love of the movies, I will always read his posts and take all of his comments into consideration. He's never spouted FUD or bashed on either format, his only agenda is the movies. I'm glad he posts on AVS.