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Cartridge Output Volume

post #1 of 15
10/20/07 at 3:51pm
Thread Starter 
After years of digital I'm back into analog- with a problem. My Music Hall MMF-5 with Goldring 1012GX's output volume is tooooo low.

I understand the actual output is relatively high for MM cartridges, so I'm perplexed. I first used a TC760 MC-MM preamp (set to MM) to my Melos SHA-1 to my Aragon 4004. Volume level sucked.

I then connected the -5 directly to my McIntosh MA-6100's phono inputs (it has two and I tried both) - it also sucked as in I have the volume control set 3/4 of max to get any decent sound level. I also tried the crappy TC760 to an Aux input - same deal.

The MMF-5 is 2nd hand but essentially brand new; in pristine condition. All cables are properly connected from TT to receiver etc etc - that is not an issue.

My experience with turntables goes back to '72 so I am totally perplexed. My last cartridge, a Shure V15MK3 (minus a stylus) is on back up, but in fact the output V is lower than the G-Ring. Any thoughts folks?
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post #2 of 15
10/20/07 at 4:56pm
I go back to 1962 with turntables. The cartridge voltage is very low and easily affected by a bad connection. Do the following:
1- Use fine steel wool( A good hardware store will have it.) to clean the TT'S two output connectors as well as the two phono input connectors.
2-Apply a contact enhancer to the 4 connectors and 4 plugs and 4 cartridge plugs.
3-Use inexpensive gold connectors since they do not tarnish.
If you do the above, you should be OK. I know it could be the wiring and their connections between the cartridge and TT outputs but that is not expected and I never heard or read of such a problem. I just reread your post and noticed that you did not try another cartridge. If that's the case you may have a defective cartridge. You have to eliminate a defective cartridge before doing any of the above.
Richard
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post #3 of 15
10/20/07 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
Perplexing is a mild understatement. I actually tried several high end RCA cables - all in like new condition.

The Music Hall actually has built in RCA cables (along with ground). I can assure you the quality of the cables or RCA inputs is not the issue = they are pristine. The Melos SHA-1 line level pre=amp is M I N T, as is the Aragon 4004.

The McIntosh, well she is an old but bee u tee ful baby and is not the problem.

I'm stumped, totally flumoxed. I will try several glasses of Grey Goose tonite to ease the pain and humiliation.
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post #4 of 15
10/20/07 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoney99 View Post

Perplexing is a mild understatement. I actually tried several high end RCA cables - all in like new condition.

The Music Hall actually has built in RCA cables (along with ground). I can assure you the quality of the cables or RCA inputs is not the issue = they are pristine.

Well, from the outside, but, do the cables have a good connection to the TT? You might try into the tape outputs or something else to see if you get an even lower signal, or is the color-code from cartridge to the arm off? Though not sure if that would lead to a lower signal, just swapped channels.
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post #5 of 15
10/20/07 at 5:48pm
Thread Starter 
Exactly. The McIntosh has both an Aux, a tape head, and a tape 1 and 2 inputs. I tried them all with the external preamp.

Trust me, the RCA cables (2 different sets - Kimber cables and Audioquest are mint) are perfect.

I actually tried the external pre-amp connected to the Phone 2 of the McIntosh - the gain is higher but the sound is ...............crappier, different, not sweet.


No, the issue is not the quality of RCA male/female..........it's something else, something else. By the way, my CD sound on both the Aragon and the McIntosh is absolutely awesome.

Anyone in the market for a Music Hall MMF??????? Just kidding!!!!!!!!
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post #6 of 15
10/20/07 at 6:11pm
There is nothing in your posts reflecting that you tried another cartridge to eliminate a defective cartrige. Also you have not steel wooled your connectors and applied a contact enhancer to all contacts. Until you do this you cannot go any further. I have had a number of McIntosh units that appeared pristine but had to have their connectors steel wooled and contact enhanced.
Richard
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post #7 of 15
10/20/07 at 6:45pm
I've resorted antique jukeboxes for years. Worked on more turntables than I can count. Sounds like a defective cartridge to me. Also check the phase of the cartridge wiring to make sure you are not canceling out.
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post #8 of 15
10/20/07 at 7:07pm
Thread Starter 
Doxy - Condar: 10-4.

Next Saturday I will report back after 0000 steel wool and checking cartridge wiring specs. Stand by!!!!!!!!!
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post #9 of 15
10/20/07 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoney99 View Post

Doxy - Condar: 10-4.

Next Saturday I will report back after 0000 steel wool and checking cartridge wiring specs. Stand by!!!!!!!!!

Don't skimp out. Go ahead and try a new cartridge (even if it a cheap one). I'm willing to bet that your problems lie in the turtable.

Think about it from a logical stand point. If you have tried a phono preamp and you are still getting the problem then.... the problem HAS to be before the preamp or AVR input.
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post #10 of 15
10/22/07 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoney99 View Post

Doxy - Condar: 10-4.

Next Saturday I will report back after 0000 steel wool and checking cartridge wiring specs. Stand by!!!!!!!!!

To sum it up as mentioned in other posts additionally do the following:
1-Try another cartridge.
2-Check phase of cartridge wiring.
3-Use contact enhancer on all connections including the cartridge.
As you know we are dealing with minimal voltage.
Richard
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post #11 of 15
10/23/07 at 10:26am
I have a MM5 w goldring cart. and the sound is much lower than a CD player or regular source even through the phono preamp so you turn up the volume. So if you normally play CD's at 5/10 you might be playing your vinyl at 7.5/10 to get the same volume. Secondly the goldring 1012gx sounds much better through a better phono preamp, I have gone to a tube phono stage to really enjoy the sound from the MM5. I don't know about your Mac Phono but it should sound OK so your cartridge is a probable cause. When you fix the problem enjoy your vinyl!
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post #12 of 15
10/24/07 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
You may soon see an immaculate MMF-5 on EBay - no reserve!!!!!!!

I have a replacement Shure cartridge on order and I'll report the results this weekend.
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post #13 of 15
10/25/07 at 6:12am
What do you mean the output volume is too low?
Do you mean you are getting virtually no sound, or, that you just have
to turn the volume up to get the level you want?
It is not unusual to have to turn the volume up when using a record player,
compared to a CD player. As long as you can get the volume you want don't
worry about where you have to put the volume control.
A different cartridge might solve your problem if the one you have is defective.
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post #14 of 15
10/26/07 at 9:17am
Thread Starter 
For those of you who are getting up in age, you'll relate:

Using a magnifying glass I determined the stylus was obviously degraded. I replaced the factory cartridge with a Shure M97xE and the sound is........analog sweet!!!!

So problem solved.

Thanks for all the responses and moral support!!
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post #15 of 15
10/26/07 at 4:55pm
Glad to hear you've got is resolved.
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