Sony VPL-VW60 Tweakers Thread - Page 44

I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this, but it's one of the only VPL-VW60 threads that's still running.

I have had said projector for a few years now and am quite satisfied with it. I'm just over 2,000 hours into my second bulb and last night the PJ began asking me to clean the filter. I did so and now need to reset the on-screen message. When I did this mid-way through the first bulb, the only menu choice I could find also reset the bulb hour counter.

My question is this: Is there a way to reset or eliminate the filter message WITHOUT resetting the bulb hours counter?

Thanks,

Jack

I'll apologize also, but I asked this in an old VPL-VW40 thread and didn't get an answer. Does anyone have the remote key sequence to reset the lamp counter? I've tried ones found via google and they haven't worked. Thanks.

EDIT, found my answer - get to the service menu via ENTER, ENTER, LEFT, ENTER. Then the 4th menu choice has an entry where the timer can be reset.

Anyone?

Thanks for the invite Dr.

I have read trough this forum extensively. I am having the dreaded blocky blu blacks... I have managed to tweak the settings to get rid of most of it without crushing the blacks.

I noticed when changing the w/b and using the "basic Settings" in the AVS Disk; the gray bars are either blue or green. They can change color with just one tick of the bias adjustment. It will start with one bar and as you continue adjustments each bar down the line will change. More notably the few bars closest to black 17;18;19...

To get rid of the Bluish black chunks i had to turn the blue bias down quiet a bit. It in turn gives the blackest blacks more of a green tint.

Ok, I have tried a Sony Blu-ray player, Xbox 360 (250GB), Toshiba HD DVD player and a laptop and all have revealed a bazaar active area vs. illuminated area observation.

The active area is presented in correct aspect if I use Full [Wide Mode setting], but there appears to be an additional area amount on all four sides. The amount is ~5%. It is almost like the opposite of overscan. Are the LCoS panels themselves larger than 1920x1080?

This extra area defines the black level (calibrated or otherwise) as it is adding light in addition to any ambient light (mind you I am using a 120" wide 2.4 aspect screen).

Anyone got any ideas on this?

Coffeguy57,

There are several methods outlined in this thread that try to reduce the block effect seen in dark scenes. Professional calibration is what did it for me. Unfortunately, a perfect calibration of the vw60 is only possible if you add an external video processor with a CMS. I chose the radiance mini, but the dvdo duo is a cheaper alternative that should work just fine. I highly recommend Tom Huffman and his ChromaPure software. Visit the Curt Palme website for some attractive DIY calbration bundles.

WHat you are describing sounds normal for these model, and other SXRD Sony projectors. This area is normally overscanned off onto the border of your screen, and doesnt really add to ambient light, unless you are using a borderless screen, with surrounding white walls, in which case the small amount of dark border is the least of the problems.

How does an external CMS differ from using the inbuilt RCP and Image Director software?

Hmm, seems like one has to use appropriate masking if they are not using a native screen aspect that is the same as the panels.

Still, this area and apparently the content within the active area has a BL higher than the apparent BL of some of the pop-up icons (like when it reports which Input is being used. Almost like the BL is artificially raised for content.

Anyone know if there is anything in the service menu that could have been altered to which it would artificially raise the BL? I haven't been in the Service Menu (don't even know how to get in there).

I have a new b stock vw60 from the AVS sale. My 2 previous projectors were panasonic 720p lcd units with "organic" panels that were notorious for burning out after a few thousand hours.

Can I hope for the SXRD panels to hold up through some lamp changes?

RCP is only a 2-D color control. It doesn't have the provision to adjust luminance/brightness of the color independently.


That light frame remains no matter what aspect you are viewing. The bars that remain for 1.78 (etc) would be indicative of your actual black level.


When you are at a "blank screen" that is showing the Input selection, it is in a 'default' setting that is not the same as when the projector is receiving a signal. Only when it locks-on to what is being sent, does it apply User Menu settings. It has a memory that will revert to a User Mode setting based on what is being fed to the PJ. For example, I have both a BD and HD DVD player and it will switch the User Mode when it detects which is connected.


You would first have to check the black level with a test pattern to determine if your brightness is set correctly. Then "it is what it is". From there, your only other choice is to use the Iris. (Now you could get into the Service Menu and maybe bring it down a tiny bit, but that could only be determined with test patterns, a meter and some software.)



Rest easy.

I have eliminated the filter message without resetting the bulb counter. I can't remember what I did but it was easy. I'll check the manuals and see if I can remember.

I think you go to Lamp settings and then when it asks you if you installed a new lamp you just say no.

-Brian

What about the provision for adjusting the gamma curve for each colour indiependantly through the ID software?

Does entering the Sony service menu void the warranty?

Sounds like experiment time! I'll try and get everything together with the Iris OFF and see what happens...
Might get a bit wonky with the amount of fiddling I'd have to do in Image Director. I'd prefer to avoid banding at the expense of "perfect measuring" colors.


Not that I'm aware of. But I'll emphasize "entering"...

You go and jack it up and they might have a case against you...
Write everything down before you change ANYTHING!!!

When I had my pro cal done, he did adjusted each colour independantly, however whilst the colours and picture were spot-on, the blocking was still there, albeit a lot less noticable. I wonder in pushing the blue down a touch would help.... maybe it is experiment time

Hi,

It's certainly experiment time for me and my VW60.

I've had and loved projectors since 1999. However, I only recently got some "good" tools for instrumented tuning. And I am pretty lost with Image Director but I do like what it can do provided I ever figure out how to use it.

I need some time and energy and luck to use my things that I have: Eye1Lt, HCFR, AVS709 test disc, Image Director and the built in CMS to tune up some good results.

Seems like going with initial grey scale tuning at 30 and 80 is out of date with the abilities of the tools we have. Seems like 20 and 90 or 100 would be better since the graphs I see can be made flat over a wider range.

I was liking lamp mode "high" for a while but I bet it's much easier to tune with "low" since you don't run out of red for example.

I've been sticking to Iris "off" since I tend to think it just jacks everything up but now after reading about making 100IRE read the same with and without it I think I'll go back and tune up for iris "off" first and then continue tuning and measuring in hopes that an iris mode can be made to work only to extend the black level.

There are so many ways to get this stuff wrong but it's still a lot of fun.

My wish list is currently: An old but useable cheap laptop that has com ports so I can use both HCFR and Image Director, A better way to attach my Eye1Lt to the tripod as I currently use a non-glamourous rubber band method, and finally a place to buy or rent a better meter to profile my Eye1 with.

-Brian

Sounds like we're in the same boat! Same meter, software, test disc & manner of affixing said meter to tripod!

It is fun and I always look forward to more potential image gains. At the very least, I get to learn my way around this projector...

I have played with Image Director and started adjusting each point and color independently. Its time consuming. It is like a parametric Multipoint gray scale adjustment. Very Powerful...then you can adjust luminance by selecting all colors.

Ive noticed on my machine, Blue is the worst tracking color. Most notably in the near black region.

Im still working on it. Learning as I go. I will get there.

I hate that I constantly scrutinize the picture, the blacks.

Yesterday I sold my ax100u I demoed it on Avatar Opening scenes with the big blue planet...I then fired up the Sony on the same scene.... Instantly realized; even with the shortcomings...WOW!!! Great Upgrade!!

I was going to use a old laptop that had a Pcmcia Card slot. I purchased a card and when I received it it was Express-card. I ordered it wrong!

I was completely unaware that my 1 year old Sony Viao had an express-card slot. It works beautifully.

If you have a newer laptop you might look. Mine looked like Memory Card slot with a plastic tray inserted.

My laptops are all Mac. I could install windoze because they are intel macs but getting a com port to function could be difficult.

I spent 5 hours tuning my VW60 this AM.

It took me a long time to understand how to tune with Image Director and it was worth it! When you calibrate pretty much every adjustment affects everything else so you have to go in circles but the best thing about image director is as I tuned gamma it improved greyscale.

I used my i1 and Spanks XYZ correction matrix along with HCFR and Image Director.

I've never had results this good and Image Director is why, it's amazingly useful and I can't say enough good things about it.

I can do better,... there's always better. But, I stopped because this one was 10x better than any previous attempt. As a bonus... the resulting PQ was great too!

I have gone back to "high" for lamp mode though. It's just as easy to tune as with low but gives 33% more light output which I think it's significant and brings my reading closer to what they "should" be.

-Brian

Brian what did you so first? Luminance, individual color tracking? Did you set your base grey scale first.

When i started tuning with ID It was second to a 2 point grayscale calibration. I had gone round and round for hours before stopping with an acceptable result but I thinking of approaching it in a different order.

Im having the most problems with too much green in the Low black 5 ire less, among a few others.

Im thinking of adjusting bias in the low black and pulling the Blue Gamma curve back to track more accurately through the rest of the lower gray scale.

I'd be interested in hearing the order that you approached this as well.

I was thinking of going:
basic grayscale
color adjustments via RCP to peg REC709
use ID to bring the luminance values back in line
reiterate until I can tweak no more

Brian,

have you checked (or you at all concerned) about the luminance values for each color? (since the CIE chart only tells part of the story) I see your overall luminance curve looks smooth, but that could be accomplished without having the induvidual colors at their "proper" values.

Something I'm trying to avoid...

maybe a screen cap of your readings and the gamma graph may help us determine.

OK, I am locked out of my sweervice menu. Can help me out?

Sorry service menu that is!

Brian,
How has your recent calibration affected the blue/black noise issues?

Hey,

That's just what I did basically.

I started by loading some known defualts just to start somewhere. I turned off RCP and Gamma Correction and did basic greyscale using 20 and 100 IRE. (I found out 30 IRE did work better for a 2 point adjustment.)

Then I tuned with RCP. I zoomed in as far as I could on the CIE graph to put the colors on the targets using realtime measurements. (I think Dr. Spank was the person to tell me about that.)

Then I turned on Gamma 3 (the only one I tune and use) and started trying to understand Image Director. It took me a long time to understand how to use ID but I understand it well enough now. I would tune a bit of the curves then run though the greyscale to see the result. I understand there's a "real time" way to use ID, maybe I will try to learn about that next time.

As far as the color luminance values.... That's something I need to learn for next time too. I'm new to tuning color and I'm still learning about it. I had wondered in the past how my colors are directly on top of the targets and the delta E values were still high and that's why.



MarkH,

Since making the adjustments, I haven't seen the blotchy blacks but I have sometimes gone half a year without seeing them. I don't often see them.

-Brian

I have been having some challenges in the lower black region. Very dark shadows tend to be green. I will get a funny looking transition when seeing a dark scene where you would see a gray gradient.

I can pull the green down and adjust the blue up in ID. One click seems to do so much color shift. Getting gray is problematic. I get either a little green or a little blue. Blue gives blotchy issue for me so i have chosen green.

Still learning!

Does anyone else see a trend towards one of those colors in your darkest shadows? Or are you getting fantastic Gray to Black.

How many hours on your lamp?

Hours on your projector?

Are you adjusting by eye or by sensor/calibration?