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Sony VPL-VW60 Tweakers Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 1538
11/6/07 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Vspec View Post

Yes, pins 2,3 and 5 with 2 and 3 crossed.

Can your 1930 pass SACD sound over HDMI?

2930

I'm not sure if it passes SACD over HDMI, because I use a Denon 3805 receiver (soon to be updated--this week hopefully--to a Denon 3808), and all my sound from the 2930 to the 3805, including SACD and DVD-A, is transfered via Denon Link 3--a type of ethernet connection, sounds much better for analogue than standard 5.1 channels out. While my 2930 is HDMI out, my 3805 has no HDMI (hence the upgrade this week) and thus I've never even explored whether it will send SACD out HDMI. I can check and post back though...

is the pins crossed thing normal for serial? Is there a specific type of cable I'd have to buy (crossover serial, or some such)?

Omar
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post #152 of 1538
11/6/07 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Vspec View Post

Yes, pins 2,3 and 5 with 2 and 3 crossed.

Can your 1930 pass SACD sound over HDMI?

No, the 2930 cannot pass SACD via HDMI. Just checked the manual.
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post #153 of 1538
11/6/07 at 8:54pm
Joe,

Does the A35 have a plug in the back for an ir remote control port? IE, a mini-jack size plug that you can run a jack from an IR remote control transmitter into, and thus use your remote control while in another room to operate the unit via the IR transmitter?
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post #154 of 1538
11/7/07 at 1:32am
Thanks for all the tips. Tried the 37% iris and other settings and it's interesting.

Tried to get into the service menu with

Enter, Enter, Left, Enter will allow you to access the service menu.

It asks "do you wish to return to the USER MODE?" and no matter if I press enter on Yes or No, nothing happens. What am I doing wrong?

Shane
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post #155 of 1538
11/7/07 at 1:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc2005 View Post

Thanks for all the tips. Tried the 37% iris and other settings and it's interesting.

Tried to get into the service menu with

Enter, Enter, Left, Enter will allow you to access the service menu.

It asks "do you wish to return to the USER MODE?" and no matter if I press enter on Yes or No, nothing happens. What am I doing wrong?

Shane

Forget it, found you hit Menu as usual, and scroll down the list on the left until you get to Device. Did I miss this or is it assumed knowledge?
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post #156 of 1538
11/7/07 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc2005 View Post

Forget it, found you hit Menu as usual, and scroll down the list on the left until you get to Device. Did I miss this or is it assumed knowledge?

I think it was mentioned in one of the posts, but as long as you wound up finding it that's good. Make sure to write down any settings before you change them, in case you want to go back. I don't believe there's any option to restore defaults, so you're stuck with what you change to unless you write the defaults down first.

Let us know how it's going
Omar
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post #157 of 1538
11/7/07 at 1:14pm
Last night I used the service menu to try some of the color temp settings posted here and had some very bizarre problems occur. I decided to leave the High, Middle and Low settings at the factory default and use Custom1 for a test. After I entered the values and clicked Save, the values were changed for all 6 of the color temp options! Fortunately I had written them all down, but if I had not they might have be lost forever. After I had restored them I tried a few more times. Every time something strange happened. I entered the settings under Custom3 and the values for Custom1 changed to the same values. The Custom2 settings also changed but to something that didn't match anything else. I ran out of time and couldn't do further testing. It's possible I was doing something wrong, but I had done this in the past on my HS-51 and never had this problem.

This may just be a defect in my unit, but if anyone tries the settings posted here make sure to record your factory settings first. Always good advice, but especially true if this is a common problem.
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post #158 of 1538
11/7/07 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschefdog View Post

Early on in the tweak thread for the HS-51 we discovered that the standard color temp settings in the service menu varied from one PJ to another.

I thought it would be interesting to see if everyone's factory color temp settings (W/B in the service menu) are the same on the VW60. It might provide some indication of how likely it is that you can use someone else's settings and get the same result in the image. To kick things off, here are my factory settings:
Code:
Panel Drivers:
R=85
G=85
B=55

W/B Settings:
        High    Middle  Low     Cust1   Cust2   Cust 3
R GAIN  128     128     128     158     128     128
G GAIN   77      76      77     107      76      77
B GAIN  109      97      73     139      97      73

R BIAS  127     128     129     128     128     129
G BIAS  128     128     128     128     128     128
B BIAS  134     134     130     128     134     130
I was surprised that Custom1 is different that High. I thought they were supposed to be the same from the factory. If your settings are different than this please reply and let us know.
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post #159 of 1538
11/8/07 at 2:32am
I think you can change the gain and bias under the custom color temperature menu without having to go to the service menu. Can anyone verify that?
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post #160 of 1538
11/8/07 at 3:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbas View Post

I think you can change the gain and bias under the custom color temperature menu without having to go to the service menu. Can anyone verify that?

That's correct. Perhaps people would use the service menu because it gives you finer control and the change is global, but I don't know because I didn't do any of those adjustments on my unit, I don't have a color meter.
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post #161 of 1538
11/8/07 at 8:13am
Yeah, I don't have a colorimeter either, and currently I have an Optoma H30 which allows for gain and bias adjustments. Still, you can eyeball it pretty well. While it may not be perfectly accurate, I have come to realize that I can yet generate a pleasing image.
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post #162 of 1538
11/9/07 at 4:14pm
I used the latest tweak settings from here and watched The Fifth Element last night, jaw dropping! The black levels were brilliant, still able to see all the star field, and no loss of detail, amazing work people!
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post #163 of 1538
11/9/07 at 6:52pm
I am amazed at the way it has turned out to...
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post #164 of 1538
11/9/07 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

[
Now comes the controversial part... "I want to preserve the filmmaker's original intentions", geek as the next A/V freak. But I gotta tell ya, if you want you movies to look like real life--like you're looking out your window at the real world, the Wide Color Space is where it's at. At first this color space looks like carnival colors and you say, "Aaahhhh! Take it away! Give me back Flatland!", but all that needs to be done is to turn down the color saturation a bit and watch something with nice, natural daylight colors for a little while until your brain adjusts, and you won't be able to go back to "normal". The truth is, NTSC is just a sucky standard from the 50's and is not realistic. Wide Color gives redder, more natural flesh tones and greener greens WITHOUT screwing up basic white, and this is what makes it very, very nice. And very natural. Give it a try with T2 Extreme Edition. Go to the scene where the kids are outside the ATM. That blue jean jacket actually looks like a blue jean jacket, now. The kid's red hair looks REAL (I know, I have red hair), it never did to me with "correct" color calibration. And the flesh tones are perfect. I flipped back to Normal and they looked like zombies out of the crypt. Wide Color really has it. The key to using this mode for me was to decrease color saturation a bit until the exaggeration of the added color space is taken away. I did it by eye and came out with very good results. Anyway, here's my settings as that goes:

I officially reverse my opinion about Wide color mode after viewing true HD material in Normal

What a pleasant surprise to see someone else using the same adjustment philosophy as I've been doing with my three displays: a 2007 52" Samsung LCD flat panel, a 2007 61" Samsung DLP and the JVC RS1.
As an experiment I switched the LCD between limited and wide color modes while it was positioned next to the DLP. (I use an HDMI matrix switcher with dual HDMI outputs).
Note: Texas Instruments switched to wide color gamut with their Brilliant (I & II) Color Processing a few years ago.
As you state, the color control has to be turned down substantially while in the wide gamut mode. Then after reducing the LCD green bias, the DLP and LCD picture quality was almost identical.

I just viewed that snake documentary again on the Discovery Channel. The snakes were really beautiful. You can watch this knock-your-socks-off stuff for hours on end and then remember hours later just how pleasing individual scenes were because of the exquisite color quality. Its a no-brainer to state the increased visual stimulation increases memory retention.
For me watching beautiful colors is a nice substitute as compared to watching the largely illusionary superficial beauty as portrayed by the opposite sex – with all the exaggerated color induced makeup. How nice for the male brain to be mesmerized in a non-sexual way. Conclusion: don’t buy a wide color gamut display if planning for a large family.

No wonder manufactures of the three major display technologies provide the wide color gamut as a standard feature today. Let Joe Kane live with the NTSC colors of the 1950s.

I searched this thread in vain for The Usual Suspects, those who raised pure hell against the RS1. Ms. Manners advised to take the high road as the intelligent members would be able to figure out the reasoning behind this obvious lack of consistency.
You guys by waiting until now, have a purchased a very nice projector which will not become obsolete. In reality we LCoS brothers share a lot in common. Note to mention our famous Hollywood LCD cousins.
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post #165 of 1538
11/9/07 at 7:20pm
Reincarnate,

You didn't seem to understand what I said when I stated that I reversed my opinion on the use of Wide color mode after watching HD in Normal. Wide quickly became too exaggerated for my taste--everyone looked sunburned. I currently use Normal color mode and will likely continue to do so until I get material mastered in a wide color scheme. Otherwise, "stretching" a DVD mastered in NTSC color profile to a wider color scheme, while in some ways a pleasant surprise, is too inconsistent in accurately replicating what might be (who knows for sure, because we don't have the source material handy for side by side comparison) the original film colors in a natural looking way to use overall.

Omar
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post #166 of 1538
11/9/07 at 7:35pm
I love using WIDE though for football. That and Dynamic makes my wall look like a BIG plasma...
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post #167 of 1538
11/10/07 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

Reincarnate,

You didn't seem to understand what I said when I stated that I reversed my opinion on the use of Wide color mode after watching HD in Normal. Wide quickly became too exaggerated for my taste--everyone looked sunburned. I currently use Normal color mode and will likely continue to do so until I get material mastered in a wide color scheme. Otherwise, "stretching" a DVD mastered in NTSC color profile to a wider color scheme, while in some ways a pleasant surprise, is too inconsistent in accurately replicating what might be (who knows for sure, because we don't have the source material handy for side by side comparison) the original film colors in a natural looking way to use overall.

Omar

Omar

What are your latest settings? I believe you are no to something so if you could post your changed settings it would be appreciated!

Steve
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post #168 of 1538
11/10/07 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by woosha188 View Post

Omar

What are your latest settings? I believe you are no to something so if you could post your changed settings it would be appreciated!

Steve

Steve-
Maybe Omar would understand a little better if your question was written in a reasonable fashion. Communication requires that. When you write "I believe you are no to something..." that may not help clue Omar into what you mean. We are not writing our doctoral thesis here, but it helps to think through a question before typing. These threads get pretty "ragged" occasionally.
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post #169 of 1538
11/10/07 at 11:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post

Steve-
Maybe Omar would understand a little better if your question was written in a reasonable fashion. Communication requires that. When you write "I believe you are no to something..." that may not help clue Omar into what you mean. We are not writing our doctoral thesis here, but it helps to think through a question before typing. These threads get pretty "ragged" occasionally.

Thanks Wolvernole but I got the well-intentioned idea. Will post shortly and eat some crow in the process!
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post #170 of 1538
11/10/07 at 11:32pm
Looking forward to reading what your latest and greatest are.
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post #171 of 1538
11/10/07 at 11:48pm
Here's the latest and greatest. I must confess, after reading both Joe and Mark (A/Vspec) talk highly about Wide color mode in another thread today, I went back and tried it again. And ya know what? I DO like it better Just some necessary tweaks to keep the red from pushing, but now I have a very, very nice deep "stop sign red" in my color test patterns that I didn't have before, along with more real-world-like hues in the rest of the color spectrum. Sooooo...here it is:

Lamp: Low
Auto Iris: Manual @37%
Color Space: Wide
Contrast: 99
Brightness: 50
Color: 49-50 (still deciding)
Hue: 50
Color Temp: Middle
Sharpness: 0 (0 for BR or HD material. +5 for standard def. upconverted)
Black Level Adjust: Off
Gamma Correction: Gamma 3
(Also applied A/Vspec Mark's Gamma Tweak in the service menu. Works like a charm to bring out detail without sacrificing black levels)

RCP: -6 on Red Color intensity

I also did the color (panel) convergence under the Tools menu. Added a nice little touch of sharpness to the pic. Just enough to be noticeable.



I know several of the settings are stock, but I can't help it...they just cal out that way! I guess Sony's really got this down to a science recipe.

These settings are pretty much "it" for me. I'm in Nirvana whatever disc I'm watching. I can't find a single fault with my image--rich blacks, fine detail, poppy but natural colors, image depth, the look and feel of film, and most of all IMAGE CLARITY and SMOOTHNESS OF MOTION--the two biggies I've been trying to achieve for seven years now with DVD. I remember my initial disappointment in 2000 when I found that VHS and LD--although lower resolution--had smoother, cleaner motion than DVD (being analogue is why), and have been trying to capture that naturalness ever since. Well (laugh!) I think I can finally say I've done that and MUCH more. My Sony BDP S2000ES is just outstanding as a player--much more film-like than the Samsung 1400 I demoed for a bit. Watched Troy on BR tonight and was really impressed with what I saw. I no longer feel any need to go see a movie in the theater.

Hope this helps people! Let me know how they work for you if you try them!
Omar
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post #172 of 1538
11/11/07 at 4:56am
Omar - What screen and screen size are you using?
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post #173 of 1538
11/11/07 at 5:54am
Wow, those are identical to what I have been using for Blu ray and HD DVD. I change it up just a little for the NFL!

Omar, I can't help it I really like WIDE color to. I use Standard pic setting for all of my movies. Dynamic for sports!
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post #174 of 1538
11/11/07 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

What's the picture mode? Dynamic, Standard, Cinema, or User1/2/3?

Well, I have my settings programed into User 2, right now. But the truth is you can start with any one of the six and tailor it to whatever you want. Dynamic, Standard and Cinema are just pre-sets designed to give a few out of the box options for people who don't want to do any calibrating of their own, but these, along with the three User modes, can be easily changed. The individual modes all look the same when set to the same parameters. Rather than saying "Dynamic Mode", or "Cinema Mode", it's more like, "here's some pre-set values that give you a Dynamic, or Cinema, or Standard look...you can keep them like this or change them as you like." (You also have the option inside the main menu for each of the modes to reset them to factory default if you change them around then want to go back.) This really is an incredibly flexible projector.
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post #175 of 1538
11/11/07 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabbas View Post

Omar - What screen and screen size are you using?

Fabbas, VuTec Silverstar, 6.0 gain, 103" (on the diagonal) or 92" (on the horizontal).
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post #176 of 1538
11/11/07 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Wow, those are identical to what I have been using for Blu ray and HD DVD. I change it up just a little for the NFL!

Omar, I can't help it I really like WIDE color to. I use Standard pic setting for all of my movies. Dynamic for sports!

Joe, just shows that great minds think alike...Laugh! What do you have set differently then between Standard and Dynamic?
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post #177 of 1538
11/11/07 at 6:37am
I agree about having all these settings for us. I really like how it remembers them to. Once you find a sweet spot it stays! There really is not much difference between Standard and Dynamic. I would say I use Auto Iris 2 for sports (or off) and then color temp 1. I know it is freaking bright but I love having all that "pop" for the games. If it is to bright (depending on broadcast) I switch back to custom 2. I know I am sick. I am with you 100% for movies though...
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post #178 of 1538
11/11/07 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I agree about having all these settings for us. I really like how it remembers them to. Once you find a sweet spot it stays! There really is not much difference between Standard and Dynamic. I would say I use Auto Iris 2 for sports (or off) and then color temp 1. I know it is freaking bright but I love having all that "pop" for the games. If it is to bright (depending on broadcast) I switch back to custom 2. I know I am sick. I am with 100% for movies though...

...And you've got an asskicking theater room Any time you feel like doing a freebie replication of it, let me know!
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post #179 of 1538
11/11/07 at 7:03am
Thanks! You are first in line!
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post #180 of 1538
11/11/07 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

Here's the latest and greatest. I must confess, after reading both Joe and Mark (A/Vspec) talk highly about Wide color mode in another thread today, I went back and tried it again. And ya know what? I DO like it better Just some necessary tweaks to keep the red from pushing, but now I have a very, very nice deep "stop sign red" in my color test patterns that I didn't have before, along with more real-world-like hues in the rest of the color spectrum. Sooooo...here it is:

Lamp: Low
Auto Iris: Manual @37%
Color Space: Wide
Contrast: 99
Brightness: 50
Color: 49-50 (still deciding)
Hue: 50
Color Temp: Middle
Sharpness: 0 (0 for BR or HD material. +5 for standard def. upconverted)
Black Level Adjust: Off
Gamma Correction: Gamma 3
(Also applied A/Vspec Mark's Gamma Tweak in the service menu. Works like a charm to bring out detail without sacrificing black levels)

RCP: -6 on Red Color intensity

I also did the color (panel) convergence under the Tools menu. Added a nice little touch of sharpness to the pic. Just enough to be noticeable.



I know several of the settings are stock, but I can't help it...they just cal out that way! I guess Sony's really got this down to a science recipe.

These settings are pretty much "it" for me. I'm in Nirvana whatever disc I'm watching. I can't find a single fault with my image--rich blacks, fine detail, poppy but natural colors, image depth, the look and feel of film, and most of all IMAGE CLARITY and SMOOTHNESS OF MOTION--the two biggies I've been trying to achieve for seven years now with DVD. I remember my initial disappointment in 2000 when I found that VHS and LD--although lower resolution--had smoother, cleaner motion than DVD (being analogue is why), and have been trying to capture that naturalness ever since. Well (laugh!) I think I can finally say I've done that and MUCH more. My Sony BDP S2000ES is just outstanding as a player--much more film-like than the Samsung 1400 I demoed for a bit. Watched Troy on BR tonight and was really impressed with what I saw. I no longer feel any need to go see a movie in the theater.

Hope this helps people! Let me know how they work for you if you try them!
Omar

Hi Omar,

Missed what Mark's Gamma soloution was in the service menu! Can you please elaborate?

Steve
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