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Warner Sets Record Straight on 'T3' Blu-ray PIP Track

post #1 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:05am
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http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...PIP_Track/1090

Is it really IME if it is just a second copy of the film? Also, doesn't this kill the whole capacity advantage?

It will be nice when 1.1 really is available. My PS3 is really for its update.
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post #2 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:07am
The film it self takes about 18go on HD DVD ... Since the IME on T3 isn't ON all the time, they could not a branching of it..
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post #3 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:09am
Yeah, with Warner the space advantage is meaningless anyway, seeing as how small their video encodes are. If they ever start doing larger encodes, which probably won't be until HD DVD is dead, then it will be important that they use 1.1 functionality. But that functionality will come long before HD DVD dies.
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post #4 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:23am
I still dont get this whole PIP thing. Why would you even want to stream a separate video source while you are watching the movie? Wouldnt you just want to watch the movie?
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post #5 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:26am
No lossless audio : No buy for me. When is Warner Bros going to give us lossess audio???
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post #6 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hddvds View Post

No lossless audio : No buy for me. When is Warner Bros going to give us lossess audio???

They do and they don't, they do and they don't. I dont' understand it either. They should be putting lossless audio on every title.
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post #7 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:29am
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Originally Posted by devilbones View Post

I still dont get this whole PIP thing. Why would you even want to stream a separate video source while you are watching the movie? Wouldnt you just want to watch the movie?

For features like 300, where you can watch the blue screen version on top of the finished product I can see its appeal, but from what I understand with the Matrix they just took special features from elsewhere in the package and put them on top of the film. There's not much point in that. I guess video commentary where they actually show you something besides talking heads, like how they did this part of the scene is OK too, but chances are there won't be 2 hrs worth of this kind of material and it could be handled just as effectively with clips in a documentary, or with "follow the white rabbit"- style cues that would take you to a full-screen behind the scenes.
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post #8 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:29am
So, they fill up a 50g disc with a 2nd encode for fake PIP? Check.
Worse audio than the HD DVD counterpart (DD at 640 vs. 1.5 DD+)? Check.
Make people wait over a year for it? Check.

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post #9 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hddvds View Post

No lossless audio : No buy for me. When is Warner Bros going to give us lossess audio???

When human ears can tell the difference.
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post #10 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

Yeah, with Warner the space advantage is meaningless anyway, seeing as how small their video encodes are. If they ever start doing larger encodes, which probably won't be until HD DVD is dead, then it will be important that they use 1.1 functionality. But that functionality will come long before HD DVD dies.

Space advantage being meaningless to Warner is a shame in my opinion... It is true that until HD DVD dies, this will be a continued practice....
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post #11 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:31am
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Originally Posted by wprager View Post

When human ears can tell the difference.

Human ears can tell the difference.. With the right equipment, even you would be able to hear the difference unless you have a hearing problem/deficiency..
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post #12 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoohki View Post

The film it self takes about 18go on HD DVD ... Since the IME on T3 isn't ON all the time, they could not a branching of it..

Do you mean since the IME on T3 isn't ON all the time, that they could use branching OR since the IME on T3 is ON all the time, they could not use branching?
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post #13 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:36am
If you buy the movie, meaning why would you buy it if you only watch it once then yes. The IME is awesome and a real treat for movie lovers, just like great documentaries on the films you love. If you rent it and watch it once then no. You don't have to watch the IME. If you have been brainwashed into the VHS and Bluray mentality that LESS IS MORE then you won't want to watch it. That is until 5 years from now when they start to rerelease all the bluray titles with the missing extras to double dip and you guys will think it is the neatest thing and get to rebuy all your titles to have the latest and greatest. Thankfully one format isn't playing these games.
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post #14 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:39am
Warner doesn't use 1.5Mbps on their HD DVD releases, they use 640.

Also, the press release for this Blu-ray release has the TrueHD logo at the bottom of it, so there is a chance that it may be on there for this release.
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post #15 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rveras View Post

Do you mean since the IME on T3 isn't ON all the time, that they could use branching OR since the IME on T3 is ON all the time, they could not use branching?

Either way, it doesn't matter. They could use either method and the results will be the same. They have tons of space available. I'm surprised it took them this long to just do it this way. WB's IME has never been like Universal's where some interaction is required (which I don't really like on the Universal titles that do it that way).
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post #16 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:46am
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Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

Either way, it doesn't matter. They could use either method and the results will be the same. They have tons of space available. I'm surprised it took them this long to just do it this way. WB's IME has never been like Universal's where some interaction is required (which I don't really like on the Universal titles that do it that way).

why dont they just do it that way then and give us Batman Begins and The Matrix already.
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post #17 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:47am
And the debate on size matters continue. Not much of a debate when you need two copies of the same film on the disc to do features that require one film on HD-DVD.

I'm neutral and I find those size arguments amuzing. This just makes it even more fun than it already is.
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post #18 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:59am
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Originally Posted by wprager View Post

When human ears can tell the difference.

Have you ever compared lossless/uncompressed to standard DD or DTS? Obviously not . . . or your hearing is incredibly poor. Get an education before presenting misinformation.
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post #19 of 129
10/22/07 at 8:59am
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Originally Posted by Chris Rein View Post

And the debate on size matters continue. Not much of a debate when you need two copies of the same film on the disc to do features that require one film on HD-DVD.

I'm neutral and I find those size arguments amuzing. This just makes it even more fun than it already is.

you do realize that the pip feature will become available probably before the year's end w/o the use of putting the same movie twice on disc right? afaik the size on hd dvd isn't going anywhere, and quality has already suffered as a result of either bandwidth (Nature's Journey) or capacity (Transformers).
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post #20 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wprager View Post

When human ears can tell the difference.

much harder to tell if at all for 1.5mbps vs lossless, but warner uses 640kbps and the diff between that and lossless is pretty obvious.
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post #21 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:07am
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

If you buy the movie, meaning why would you buy it if you only watch it once then yes. The IME is awesome and a real treat for movie lovers, just like great documentaries on the films you love. If you rent it and watch it once then no. You don't have to watch the IME. If you have been brainwashed into the VHS and Bluray mentality that LESS IS MORE then you won't want to watch it. That is until 5 years from now when they start to rerelease all the bluray titles with the missing extras to double dip and you guys will think it is the neatest thing and get to rebuy all your titles to have the latest and greatest. Thankfully one format isn't playing these games.

And if you truly believe that (the bolded part) then you are just as brainwashed as the Blu-Boys. Is there any evidence to suggest that Sony and Disney put out more versions of their movies than Paramount and Universal? Fifth Element aside, that is.
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post #22 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BStecke View Post

Have you ever compared lossless/uncompressed to standard DD or DTS? Obviously not . . . or your hearing is incredibly poor. Get an education before presenting misinformation.

My hearing is actually OK for someone my age (my kids, on the other hand ...) The difference in the source material accounts for 99% (if not more) of the perceived quality of the audio. Are you going to tell me that you could tell the difference between the Transformers master and the HD-DVD track? Remember that the vast majority of the people do not have equipment that would differentiate between the two -- regardless whether or not their earrs could in the first place. And for the people for whom audio is so important that they spend $500 on speaker cable, are they really that sh*t-hot to listen to the Transformers soundtrack?
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post #23 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:15am
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Originally Posted by devilbones View Post

I still dont get this whole PIP thing. Why would you even want to stream a separate video source while you are watching the movie? Wouldnt you just want to watch the movie?

Some people just like to multitast and don't mind another box on thier screen during a movie. I personally like the extras like deleted scenes and music videos on the featured soundtracks, but dont really care for the directors commentary telling me what I'm seeing.
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post #24 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:17am
PiP is a very new thing for the entertainment industry. The first titles with PiP will not be that spectacular. But I think the more it get used, the more they can come up with new stuff how to use it.

The 300 PiP is the best of date I can think of. But if you have abit of imagination you could easily think of other cool things you could do with PiP.
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post #25 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:23am
Warner's BD PiP appraoch should be interesting. Several players report issues with the seamless branching on Spiderman 2, and I think there are only about a half dozen branch points.

It's sounds like for PiP, every time the PiP box pops up, that will be a branch point. If you watch this IME, a box pops up every couple of minutes for about 20-30 seconds and then goes away. I think this will likely mean 30-40 branch points. I wonder how many players this will freak out?
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post #26 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:24am
Disney has been the only BD studio that has not left consumers out if they upgrade their dvd's to Bluray. Every other studio and new release is notoriously lacking extras from the dvd. Fox and MGM being the worst and Sony and Lionsgate a close second. Yes the 5th Element should have contained every supplement from the Ultimate Edition set. You have 50 gb, you have nothing but space. ID4, Day after Tomorrow, Robocop, Replacement Killers, Patriot, Ghost Rider, Master and Commmander, Spiderman, Spiderman 2, the list is endless all lacking features from the dvd.

The double dipping is coming trust me. They want to sell you all their titles twice. Just like they want to sell you a 1.0 and new and improved 1.1 compliant player and charge you twice as much for it. Spiderman and Spiderman 2 will be the first double dips. They easily could have ported over all the extras from the 2 disc sets and put them on the BD.
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post #27 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilbones View Post

I still dont get this whole PIP thing. Why would you even want to stream a separate video source while you are watching the movie? Wouldnt you just want to watch the movie?

I really like PIP commentaries. Sure, it can kinda suck when it's just showing people on a couch, but the better ones that mix it up by showing a variety of footage are quite interesting to me, and it keeps my attention far more than just an audio-only commentary (which put me to sleep in about 10 minutes).

The fact that I enjoy special features and desire them makes me a heathen on these boards, though.
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post #28 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilbones View Post

I still dont get this whole PIP thing. Why would you even want to stream a separate video source while you are watching the movie? Wouldnt you just want to watch the movie?

The german T2 (or is T3) relase has a goof mode that uses PiP to point out all the mistakes in the film. It actually looks pretty cool. I can see this being a big deal for cult classics.

As for PiP, it has great potential that very few have started to realize. Match it up with web connectivity, and the options/ideas are endless.
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post #29 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:42am
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Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

afaik the size on hd dvd isn't going anywhere, and quality has already suffered as a result of either bandwidth (Nature's Journey) or capacity (Transformers).

That's crap.

Nature's Journey's quality didn't "suffer" on HD DVD. And there is capacity on Tranformers for the TrueHD track -- Paramount just chose (for their own strange reasons) to not include it.
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post #30 of 129
10/22/07 at 9:45am
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Disney has been the only BD studio that has not left consumers out if they upgrade their dvd's to Bluray. Every other studio and new release is notoriously lacking extras from the dvd. Fox and MGM being the worst and Sony and Lionsgate a close second. Yes the 5th Element should have contained every supplement from the Ultimate Edition set. You have 50 gb, you have nothing but space. ID4, Day after Tomorrow, Robocop, Replacement Killers, Patriot, Ghost Rider, Master and Commmander, Spiderman, Spiderman 2, the list is endless all lacking features from the dvd.

The double dipping is coming trust me. They want to sell you all their titles twice. Just like they want to sell you a 1.0 and new and improved 1.1 compliant player and charge you twice as much for it. Spiderman and Spiderman 2 will be the first double dips. They easily could have ported over all the extras from the 2 disc sets and put them on the BD.

it's also possible they only do this on catalog titles that has already been released on DVD and they dont feel the need to spend the extra time porting over to BD. these studios seem to be assuming we already own the dvd releases of the catalog bd's they are releasing.
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