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What would you do if you had this new room

post #1 of 26
10/30/07 at 5:06pm
Thread Starter 
Hello all , Id like to quick thank all you guys that spend so much time doing your posts and layouts I'm not going to name you by name cause i don't want to leave peeps out. All your posts pictures and help are an inspiration and such a huge help to all. THANK YOU.

My Situation:
The room is professionally accousticly treated (another member bpape did the layout and did a nice job)and is 22 x 15 with a 2 foot deep false wall at the front.
Attachment 93295
The screen is much wider then that shows cause its 2.35.1 and the false wall is a couple inches in front of the speaker locations. (also the rears and side rears are in the walls not as shown and the chairs are a little different too, not that any of that matters to the question at hand)

here is the wall 15 wide 8 high with false wall two foot out (22 inches between 703 and the false wall, 24 if i take the 703 out from behind where the subs would sit.
Attachment 93294

Problem:
My new fully treated room needs some monster base. currently has M&K MX-125. I have a lot of space to make some large boxes and would like some help designing them and setting up the cutouts.

I am thinking something on the order of steveS's twins maybe a little slimmer and taller then his so they fit in my false wall (22-24 deep). I'm thinking 2 large 650-800 liter LLT boxes with a 18 in each tuned around 11hz or so (thinking maybe Soundspliter rl18 or eD's but be glad to hear other ideas or opinions). My screen is a little over 11 feet wide and I am clear the entire way to make the boxes whatever shape makes the most sense. I would like help with box design ideas (where to place port, where to place speaker in boxes and size with my depth in mind and cut sheets ) My whole false wall and screen are AT.

I'm looking for something that really makes the hair on your arms stand up. If anyone saw the Genelec demo at Cedia with War of the Worlds that is what I'm shooting for.
LL
LL
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post #2 of 26
10/30/07 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarko View Post

Hello all , Id like to quick thank all you guys that spend so much time doing your posts and layouts I'm not going to name you by name cause i don't want to leave peeps out. All your posts pictures and help are an inspiration and such a huge help to all. THANK YOU.

My Situation:
The room is professionally accousticly treated (another member bpape did the layout and did a nice job)and is 22 x 15 with a 2 foot deep false wall at the front.
Attachment 93295
The screen is much wider then that shows cause its 2.35.1 and the false wall is a couple inches in front of the speaker locations. (also the rears and side rears are in the walls not as shown and the chairs are a little different too, not that any of that matters to the question at hand)

here is the wall 15 wide 8 high with false wall two foot out (22 inches between 703 and the false wall, 24 if i take the 703 out from behind where the subs would sit.
Attachment 93294

Problem:
My new fully treated room needs some monster base. currently has M&K MX-125. I have a lot of space to make some large boxes and would like some help designing them and setting up the cutouts.

I am thinking something on the order of steveS's twins maybe a little slimmer and taller then his so they fit in my false wall (22-24 deep). I'm thinking 2 large 650-800 liter LLT boxes with a 18 in each tuned around 11hz or so (thinking maybe Soundspliter rl18 or eD's but be glad to hear other ideas or opinions). My screen is a little over 11 feet wide and I am clear the entire way to make the boxes whatever shape makes the most sense. I would like help with box design ideas (where to place port, where to place speaker in boxes and size with my depth in mind and cut sheets ) My whole false wall and screen are AT.

I'm looking for something that really makes the hair on your arms stand up. If anyone saw the Genelec demo at Cedia with War of the Worlds that is what I'm shooting for.

Soundsplinter RL-P18s in 25 cu ft+ enclosures tuned to 11 or 12hz would be good.

What's your budget?
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post #3 of 26
10/30/07 at 5:22pm
Well, it sounds like you know what you need and what it takes to get there. That is half of the battle.

Ya, I would go with at least two 18"ers. Four if you can swing it and a pair of EP2500s. There is a great build with 4 18 eDs in a similiar size room and various twin RLp threads.

One suggestion, get more than you think you need. It is much better to have extra capability which usually results in less THD as things can coast along. The worst is to get it all assembled and wish you had more.
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post #4 of 26
10/30/07 at 6:29pm
I'd highly recommend looking into this sub: http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=652
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post #5 of 26
10/30/07 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Kephart View Post

I'd highly recommend looking into this sub: http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=652

I didn't know the Tempest-X had been posted already! Man, it really likes a huge enclosure.
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post #6 of 26
10/30/07 at 8:02pm
You can build the enclosure across the bottom of the false wall to hold up all three speakers at the same height. Two RL-p18s in a LLT is more than just about anyone needs or should ever be use. Should be great.
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post #7 of 26
10/30/07 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Kephart View Post

I'd highly recommend looking into this sub: http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=652

Looks to be an alternative to the SDX15 in larger enclosures, for a bit less.

Haven't modeled it, but should be a good budget 15" yeah?
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post #8 of 26
10/30/07 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

Looks to be an alternative to the SDX15 in larger enclosures, for a bit less.

Haven't modeled it, but should be a good budget 15" yeah?

Most definitely. It uses the XBL^2 motor so it will have extremely low distortion. And with the 27mm Xmax it should have super-sub output and extention capabilities. I doubt you could find a comparable sub even at double that price. The design does give up some enclosure size for efficiency. But that's what made the original Tempest, the sub it is based off of, such an awesome and well reguarded performer.
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post #9 of 26
10/31/07 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the input everyone. I like the idea of making it all the way across but thought i would do it in two boxes just so if i ever have to move it i have a few options and I'm not sure i really need (lol did I say need) it 11 feet wide like the screen. I guess I'm just not sure how to go about deciding exactly what size the box should be (I know it needs to be no more then 24" deep but thats about the only real constraint i have and how to layout the bracing stuff for inside I just have no clue , where to place the speaker and ports i don't know where to even start. If there is anyone around with some Sketchup/CAD and/or box design layout skills i would be extremely grateful for some help/advice.

The tempest looks like a hell of a driver but it seems like 18's make more sense when i have the space. it seems like to go 4 18s in an LLT box would require some really massive boxes. the only ones i have seen with 4 are sealed boxes unless i have missed some (easily possible) . how much larger would (2) boxs with 2 15s each total of 4 be then the two boxes with single 18's. does that make sense to consider?

Also on the Budget I dont have a set one ill spend what seems reasonable but im thinking somewhere in the 2k area for the project materials
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post #10 of 26
10/31/07 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarko View Post

Thanks for the input everyone. I like the idea of making it all the way across but thought i would do it in two boxes just so if i ever have to move it i have a few options and I'm not sure i really need (lol did I say need) it 11 feet wide like the screen. I guess I'm just not sure how to go about deciding exactly what size the box should be (I know it needs to be no more then 24" deep but thats about the only real constraint i have and how to layout the bracing stuff for inside I just have no clue , where to place the speaker and ports i don't know where to even start. If there is anyone around with some Sketchup/CAD and/or box design layout skills i would be extremely grateful for some help/advice.

The tempest looks like a hell of a driver but it seems like 18's make more sense when i have the space. it seems like to go 4 18s in an LLT box would require some really massive boxes. the only ones i have seen with 4 are sealed boxes unless i have missed some (easily possible) . how much larger would (2) boxs with 2 15s each total of 4 be then the two boxes with single 18's. does that make sense to consider?

Also on the Budget I dont have a set one ill spend what seems reasonable but im thinking somewhere in the 2k area for the project materials


4x RL-P18s - Roughly $1600
2x Behringer EP2500s - $400ish


Darn, a bit over budget.
Would have been perfect.
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post #11 of 26
10/31/07 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

4x RL-P18s - Roughly $1600
2x Behringer EP2500s - $400ish


Darn, a bit over budget.
Would have been perfect.

Not too far above budget. It would be a hell of a setup though. Very much worth the extra few hundred bucks if you have the space.
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post #12 of 26
10/31/07 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarko View Post


The tempest looks like a hell of a driver but it seems like 18's make more sense when i have the space.


Haha, I don't blame you. Kevin is working on an 18 right now, but it probably won't be released anytime soon. Here's the conception thread if you are interested: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=46027.0
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post #13 of 26
10/31/07 at 10:36pm
IMHO Scotts setup would be more than adequate.
But if this HT is underground and you think the house will take the abuse, Scotts recomendation for doubling his setup would be really really cool.

If you've got the room for 24" boxes and this is DIY with simple tools stick with the plans Scott used. On the other hand if your using a cabinet maker for the build it could be reasonable to alter the plans for your room
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post #14 of 26
11/1/07 at 2:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

4x RL-P18s - Roughly $1600
2x Behringer EP2500s - $400ish


Darn, a bit over budget.
Would have been perfect.

It's always possible to start with half that, then double it if the need be.
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post #15 of 26
11/1/07 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

IMHO Scotts setup would be more than adequate.
But if this HT is underground and you think the house will take the abuse, Scotts recomendation for doubling his setup would be really really cool.

If you've got the room for 24" boxes and this is DIY with simple tools stick with the plans Scott used. On the other hand if your using a cabinet maker for the build it could be reasonable to alter the plans for your room

Hehehe, no kidding. That would be a goal of mine would be to double up and have a 2500 per woofer. Ahh, that would be sweet!

The only thing holding back most people from doing my box is that that are simply HUGE. Quite unwieldy for someone who moves around a lot, not so much for a more permanent application. They dont impose at all for me. They sit just fine behind my television so they never get in the way. Not any different than a wall, seriously.

Or as Looneybomber said, you could just start off with two like I have and then if you think you need an extra 6dB go with two more.
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post #16 of 26
11/1/07 at 12:29pm
how exactly has anyone found out how well the tempest-x models considering the TSP arnt availible, at least i wasnt able to find them. DIYaudio seems to be their only website and instead of posting the Tempest-X PDF they posted the Shiva-X twice.

Nevermind... I found the specs on another site.
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post #17 of 26
11/1/07 at 4:07pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for all the help guys, After looking over ScottS's Thread again I see your box is 24 deep so I would be able to do the same boxes. Would it be possible to get a copy of the design files that i can put in Viseo it can use most file types I see them in your post but dont know how to get a copy I can print out and stuff? My email is markojeff@hotmail.com if your OK with sending them. Do you feel locating the woofers on the ends is the best location or will work out well to put them side by side in the false wall or does it make more sense to put them in the front ? my room has 703 bass traps in each of the front corners Attachment 93495so i wasn't sure if pointing each one at a bass trap makes sense?
LL
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post #18 of 26
11/1/07 at 4:27pm
Why not start with 4x and double up later?
8x RL-P18s and 8x EP2500s.

Hmm.. What a setup that would be...
Time to start saving lol.
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post #19 of 26
11/1/07 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

Why not start with 4x and double up later?
8x RL-P18s and 8x EP2500s.

Hmm.. What a setup that would be...
Time to start saving lol.

Dont give me any ideas like that!!! I just might do it one of these days... Woah, thats pretty darn close to 140dB down to 10hz if it was boxes like mine. Yeesh!
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post #20 of 26
11/1/07 at 7:23pm
Jeff,
building the boxes per the design will allow you to fire the drivers into the corners or toward each other, giving you two options for obtaining the best response in your room. If money is not tight I'd buy four RL-p18's while availability is good(I hope they are always available, but you never know.), if you only end up needing two I'm sure someone who hears your setup will gladly buy them off of you. 4-RL-p18D2's on a CE4000 would be an amazingly good setup(probably too good). Add a Bheringer BFD and lightly REW to perfection.

Still wondering about the HT room, is it below ground?


Later
Dan
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post #21 of 26
11/2/07 at 1:16pm
Thread Starter 
The room is not below ground it is a add-on room off the rear of my house.

Dan are you saying to get 4 RL-18's and use all them or get 4 and use 2 at first?

Is it possible to get the CAD or sketchup drawings/cut out layouts from ScottS project ? my email is markojeff@hotmail.com if there too large to post.
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post #22 of 26
11/2/07 at 10:45pm
can anyone draw a design or explain how to build this false wall?

im going to start construction on my home theater next week and i need to instruct my contractor how to build this

the room is 23 x 17. i plan to have the false wall hide the free standing loudspeakers and center channel speaker while supporting a 120" screen.

the screen will be placed slightly back to leave room for an electric curtain.

thanks

marc
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post #23 of 26
11/8/07 at 11:38am
Thread Starter 
update

I have decided to flatter Scott in the finest way and copy ScottS's Subs (second thanks to Neo Dan for the awesome drawings he did). I picked up all the MDF yesterday and the nice old guy at HD did all the major cuts for us on the panel saw. Today we did the rest of the short strait cuts and all the large circles in the braces. I ordered my 18's today from Mike @ Soundsplinter.

I am trying to decide what to do for the Amp (I ordered D2 subs so each sub will show a 4 ohm total) if I should go 1 or 2 EP2500's or if i would rather get something larger that i can run both subs off of like maybe Crown xs1200 @ 1100 watts 4 ohms stereo or maybe the xti4000(would the eq and stuff here be any help at all built in). Im just not sure what else i will want between my receiver Denon AVR-4806 and the pro amp. The Denon Receiver has the Audessey Pro Digital EQ System anyone have any experiences with it? That I plan to use ( I am buying a key from Audessey. the upgrade for this was just released from Denon recently is my understanding so it will be a week or two till i get the mic and kit needed so i have very little knowledge of its real power. I have played with the scaled down audessey XT i think it is that came in the receiver but have'nt had a chance to do any testing yet. I plan to get REW downloaded this weekend and do some playing with it just to try to learn it before my boxes are ready. So what else do you guys think i will need between the receiver and the amps? Will i need one of the behringer boxes or one of the mod'd ART boxes or will the Denon give me enough control/output to start with?

Scott knowing we are doing the same plans as you did would you make any changes i should know about?

Anyone see anything im missing and should be considering before i move to fast ?
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post #24 of 26
11/8/07 at 11:45am
Thread Starter 
to answer the question on the front wall. Mine is very very simple it is just a couple 2 x 4 standing floor to ceiling doubled up at the edge of the screen with a single one floor to ceiling next to the wall then a couple small 2 x 4 cross braces. the two sides are not connected together at all. basically its two little mini walls with no insulation or drywall on them. the frame on my SMX screen is very strong and hangs from each side double 2x4 then we made panels out of 2 x 2's and wrapped them with speaker grill cloth from JoAnns to fill in around the screen. My room is all black and all that stuff is painted black and my photo skills and lighting options suck so i dont really have decent photos that would show you anything.
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post #25 of 26
11/8/07 at 11:48am
Great! You will be rockin' in no time.

Unless you need the DSP features of the XTi, I would just go with one EP2500, try it and see how you make out. If you need to add a second and still be way under the cost of one XTi. You will have some killer output with even one EP and Scott's design.
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post #26 of 26
11/8/07 at 12:03pm
Thread Starter 
Scott I saw that the size for the speaker baffle was smaller at 16 1/2 then what was in the plans. Is the cutout size on the front panel for the recessed speaker still 18 1/2 as in the plans or is it smaller also? Thanks again
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